On to 2017 . premature/overdue . thread

[mosi's man]

I think people are overestimating the likelihood of resigning Hightower. I'd be stunned if his agent and the Pats hadn't had intense negotiations already (really? Bennett before Hightower?) and yet they failed to come to agreement. Unless the Pats cave, I think he wants top of the market money and I ask: when was the last time the Pats signed a guy with a significant injury history to a top-of-the-market longterm deal? Maybe Mayo and that really didn't work out. I love Hightower, but I would not be shocked to see BB move on from him.

 

[supafly]

Pay HT. Because 1.a He deserves; 1.b They can. If gonna tag one of them is going to be Butler. His tag is 3.6m / HT is 14m+.

You are confusing the franchise tag with the restricted free agent tender (your example of 3.6m is for a first round tender).

As you know, if they gamble and use the first round tender on Butler rather than a long term deal, another team could make him an offer. If NE refuses to match the offer, Butler would be gone and the team would get a first round pick.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think people are overestimating the likelihood of resigning Hightower. I'd be stunned if his agent and the Pats hadn't had intense negotiations already (really? Bennett before Hightower?) and yet they failed to come to agreement. Unless the Pats cave, I think he wants top of the market money and I ask: when was the last time the Pats signed a guy with a significant injury history to a top-of-the-market longterm deal? Maybe Mayo and that really didn't work out. I love Hightower, but I would not be shocked to see BB move on from him.

Hightower has never had a significant injury.

The guy plays a very physical position.

Surgery in the offseason is commonplace.

At a minimum, they will franchise tag him.

 

[supafly]

Speaking of TE, what do you guys think of Rob Houser? After winning the Super Bowl, I wonder what veteran free agents out there are hungry to be on a winning team? We could use OL help, edge rusher, and LB

I don't have an opinion on Rob Houser, but you make a fair point in reminding us all that there will be other available TEs available via draft + FA.

 

[mosi's man]

Hightower torn an ACL, tore the labrum in his shoulder, and played this year with both shoulder and knee injuries. We'll see if he needs either addressed by surgery this offseason. He has missed time in four of the last five seasons. I guess we can argue about what comprises "significant".

 

[long distance]

Update on futures signings from Miguel

Still curious about DeAndre White - BB praised him, gave him a raise .. and on the other hand all 3 guards are signed..

__
I expect the 8 to be signed to deals with minimum salaries for players with their experience.

Player – 2017 salary
DT Darius Kilgo – $615,000
G Chris Barker – $540,000
G Jamil Douglas- $540,000
RB Tyler Gaffney – $540,000
DT Woodrow Hamilton – $540,000
G Chase Farris – $465,000
LB Trevor Bates – $465,000
WR Devin Lucien – $465,000

- See more at: The defending Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots officially sign 9 players to futures contracts

 

[long distance]

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

You are confusing the franchise tag with the restricted free agent tender (your example of 3.6m is for a first round tender).

As you know, if they gamble and use the first round tender on Butler rather than a long term deal, another team could make him an offer. If NE refuses to match the offer, Butler would be gone and the team would get a first round pick.

I know. They have to give their #1 original pick or better to us. Let's assume they give Butler the best CB deal 15m and we don't want to match.

Only teams with cap to make that happen; i am saying that because any of the other teams can't ''pull a Hogan'' on us and structure the contract like we did to snatch him.

Browns #1
49ers #2
Patriots
Buccaneers # 19 (MAYBE)
Titans # 5
Jaguars # 4
Redskins # 17 and they have the top-paid CB
Bears # 3
Colts # 14
Panthers # 8

Did you see any of these teams giving up their pick to us?

 

[luuked]

I think people are overestimating the likelihood of resigning Hightower. I'd be stunned if his agent and the Pats hadn't had intense negotiations already (really? Bennett before Hightower?) and yet they failed to come to agreement. Unless the Pats cave, I think he wants top of the market money and I ask: when was the last time the Pats signed a guy with a significant injury history to a top-of-the-market longterm deal? Maybe Mayo and that really didn't work out. I love Hightower, but I would not be shocked to see BB move on from him.

You are making it sound like you can find players like him in every draft / on the street. The franchise tag will be applied to him and they will agree on a long term contract a bit later before TC. Even if it's unrealistic to extend him past the franchise tag there really is no alternative unless you wanna go into the season with Roberts, McClellin and KVN as your LB group.

You can't seriously assume that who ever they find in the draft / FA can be the same player as HT ?

 

[patriot1136]

Would love to see what Lucien can do.

 

[DefenseRules]

Weei just said that the Pats have 63 million in cap space. Where the hell are they getting that figure from? That can't be true.

 

[Sciz]

I know. They have to give their #1 original pick or better to us. Let's assume they give Butler the best CB deal 15m and we don't want to match.

Only teams with cap to make that happen; i am saying that because any of the other teams can't ''pull a Hogan'' on us and structure the contract like we did to snatch him.

Browns #1
49ers #2
Patriots
Buccaneers # 19 (MAYBE)
Titans # 5
Jaguars # 4
Redskins # 17 and they have the top-paid CB
Bears # 3
Colts # 14
Panthers # 8

Did you see any of these teams giving up their pick to us?

The Packers and Steelers are the teams that should consider it. They're the teams with less valuable first round picks, closing windows as their QBs get older, sufficient (albeit not excessive) cap room, and a desperate need for CB help.

Of course, the Packers are known for ignoring free agency altogether even when they don't have to give up first round picks. The Steelers would love to hurt the Patriots as they each enjoy their quarterbacks' last few seasons, though.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

The Packers and Steelers are the teams that should consider it. They're the teams with less valuable first round picks, closing windows as their QBs get older, sufficient (albeit not excessive) cap room, and a desperate need for CB help.

Of course, the Packers are known for ignoring free agency altogether even when they don't have to give up first round picks. The Steelers would love to hurt the Patriots as they each enjoy their quarterbacks' last few seasons, though.

Steelers have $35,228,071 and the following FA class: Le'veon Bell 9-10/ Lawrence Timmons 5-6/Jarvis Jones/Markus Wheaton 4-6m... and others

GB have $43,568,612 and the following FA class:T.J Lang 6-8m/Nick Perry 7-8m/Tretter - 6-8m +Micah Hyde+ Datone Jones ...

I don't think either will be able to overpay for Buttler. And that's what you have to do to snatch the best FA's.

 

[long distance]

Weei just said that the Pats have 63 million in cap space. Where the hell are they getting that figure from? That can't be true.

currently (includes 9 new futures deals signings and projected 3 ERFAs)
61,248,593 ‏

Expected increase to close to 70M:
Vollmer retiring, Amendola cut/restructuring = up to 7-8M
different small credits

If/when they get the previously posted Hernandez credit it will be well over 70

to be sure just follow Miguel on twitter:
Cap Space=61,248,593 (@patscap) | Twitter

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Weei just said that the Pats have 63 million in cap space. Where the hell are they getting that figure from? That can't be true.

How much do we have then? I expect the cap to be around 170 million or more

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

currently (includes 9 new futures deals signings and projected 3 ERFAs)
61,248,593 ‏

Expected increase to close to 70M:
Vollmer retiring, Amendola cut/restructuring = up to 7-8M
different small credits

If/when they get the previously posted Hernandez credit it will be well over 70

to be sure just follow Miguel on twitter:
Cap Space=61,248,593 (@patscap) | Twitter

Amendola has been a clutch guy in the playoffs. I wonder if he's open to restructuring.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Amendola has been a clutch guy in the playoffs. I wonder if he's open to restructuring.

He's restructured the last 2 years and said to the media in early 2015 that he'll do whatever it takes to play in NE, that he doesn't want to play anywhere else. Now, he could have changed his mind of course, but I'm banking on him being here under a restructured agreement.

 

[mosi's man]

You are making it sound like you can find players like him in every draft / on the street. The franchise tag will be applied to him and they will agree on a long term contract a bit later before TC. Even if it's unrealistic to extend him past the franchise tag there really is no alternative unless you wanna go into the season with Roberts, McClellin and KVN as your LB group.

You can't seriously assume that who ever they find in the draft / FA can be the same player as HT ?

I don't mean to suggest that Hightower would be easy to replace (in fact I never did). I'm merely responding to the assumption that he will receive a longterm deal. I'd love to see it but have some concern that it hasn't happened yet. As I mentioned, I assume that the two sides have already tried to iron out a deal and have been unsuccessful to date. From Donta's point of view, why not test free agency at this point? If you are the Pats, breaking the bank for a guy whose got a lot of tough miles on the tires, regardless of how much you appreciate him, is not something the have been inclined to do. I wouldn't be surprised if he's franchised, although he might get pretty pissed if it happens and then we get a Mankins/Branch type situation. I'm merely suggesting that a longterm deal might not happen. If it doesn't, I'm sure BB will adjust despite the obvious negative impact.

 

[luuked]

From Donta's point of view, why not test free agency at this point?

Because the Pats can franchise him. It is not his decision.

If you are the Pats, breaking the bank for a guy whose got a lot of tough miles on the tires, regardless of how much you appreciate him, is not something the have been inclined to do.

There is just no realistic alternative, really. I just don't see how they can take a hit like that after giving another potential foundation player in Collins. We don't have any depth or young players that can elevate themselves or take over for HT. And getting someone like him in FA might be more expensive and risky than compromising on some of the contract language.

 

[luuked]

Hightower has never had a significant injury.

The guy plays a very physical position.

Surgery in the offseason is commonplace.

At a minimum, they will franchise tag him.

He had an ACL surgery while at Alabama in 2009. I know it doesn't sound relevant but Mayo explicitly mentioned it in today's Ex Pats podcast as a reason why the Pats might look into some insurance language in a longterm contract.