Pats D still Number 2 in AFC points against

[luuked]

Ok pal. How about we play the games.
Why a fan of a team could post you are hoping to lose so optimistic (in this case realistic actually) fans on a message board can be wrong and you can triumphantly come back and tell those fans you were right and the team sucks is amazing. And creepy.

You are wasting your time Andy..

You are talking to people that after all those years still haven't realized that BB will let the opponents gain yards on the ground or via pass by design if it increases our overall chances to win a football game. Which makes all of those yardage stats even more useless than they already are.

It is simply mind numbing to me how so many people didn't realize what the gameplan against the Jets was and how well it worked. All they saw was Fitzpatrick and his completion percentage and yardage stats but failed to realize that most of that was by design. Stopping the run, leaving him the underneath checkdowns and daring him to beat them deep when he loses the patience of constantly checking down where he has shown that he is pretty error prone was the right way to go.

You can escape your true performance level as an athlete only for so long and Fitzpatrick did a good job with some impressive throws. But chances were that he would **** up sooner or later and that's what the defensive gameplan was built around.

If you want more of a Seahawks or Broncos defense that only plays one certain way, does that particularly well and wants the other team to show they can beat them then you need to go and cheer for a different team as long as BB is in charge here.

 

[luuked]

Or their offense.
Or special teams.

But if its the Patriots there will be swarms of posters bragging that it was because of whatever reason they said it was going to be.
This board takes more enjoyment in complaining about losing that in winning. Hell it takes more enjoyment in complaining about how they won that in winning.
I do not think you can find another board out there where the majority of posters are complaining about how bad the team is after a road division win, and how bad the defense that gave up 17 points is.

It's like @patfanken said.. there is no winning with a lot of the media and fanbase here. Even if they end up with the Lombardi trophy there will be those morons that claim that they won it despite BB and that him trading away players only put the season unnecessarily at risk.

 

[neuronet]

I have one stat that I defy any of the stat-masters to disprove. In 100.00% of games played in football the team who scores the most points wins. There hasn't been a single exception in the history of the game.

This is why points against is more important than any of that DVOA, DOA, spike-triggered-average, PCA, ICA, bull....

It's like trying to judge who screwed up on a defensive play without knowing what the coach wanted the players to do. Did the CB mess up, or the safety? If you are running a bend but don't break, then using yards against is a stupid stat to use. To then use that stat to compare our defense to the Bills (for instance) is silly.

We are winning games and preventing POINTS. For goodness sake people allowing 16 or 17 points is REALLY GOOD in this offense-focused league. If that isn't good enough then our offense is the problem, not the defense. And if you look at the Seattle game, it was our offense that couldn't punch through starting with first and goal....

 

[luuked]

This is why points against is more important than any of that DVOA, DOA, spike-triggered-average, PCA, ICA, bull....

It's like trying to judge who screwed up on a defensive play without knowing what the coach wanted the players to do. Did the CB mess up, or the safety? If you are running a bend but don't break, then using yards against is a stupid stat to use. To then use that stat to compare our defense to the Bills (for instance) is silly.

We are winning games and preventing POINTS. For goodness sake people allowing 16 or 17 points is REALLY GOOD in this offense-focused league. If that isn't good enough then our offense is the problem, not the defense. And if you look at the Seattle game, it was our offense that couldn't punch through starting with first and goal....

The problem really is that some of the yokels really think that based on past results they can accurately project future outcomes and ignore the simple reality that this sport is 100% matchup based.

Just because you were great so far at something doesn't mean that your next opponent is not able to exploit it to a certain degree. Similarly, most also completely underestimate the amount of time teams spent studying game tape and finding weaknesses or tells in even the best defenses.

I'd argue that the Patriots D is more difficult to prepare for than the Broncos or Seahawks on a strategic/scheme level. Against the other two it's mostly about pure execution whereas against the Patriots you have to somewhat project yourself what they will do against you. And even then it stays a game of "catch me if you can" throughout the game with all the adjustments and scheme changes.

 

[Ring 6]

This is why points against is more important than any of that DVOA, DOA, spike-triggered-average, PCA, ICA, bull....

It's like trying to judge who screwed up on a defensive play without knowing what the coach wanted the players to do. Did the CB mess up, or the safety? If you are running a bend but don't break, then using yards against is a stupid stat to use. To then use that stat to compare our defense to the Bills (for instance) is silly.

We are winning games and preventing POINTS. For goodness sake people allowing 16 or 17 points is REALLY GOOD in this offense-focused league. If that isn't good enough then our offense is the problem, not the defense. And if you look at the Seattle game, it was our offense that couldn't punch through starting with first and goal....

I totally understand looking at numbers and analyzing and crunching them to try to predict something that might happen in the future. I think its useless because football is about matchup, situation, and perhaps more than anything peaking, but I know that some people feel the need to find something to use as a predictor.
However, to take what has already happened, and been decided on the field, in a game won or lost based upon points, and try to analyze and rate the RESULT is ridiculous. There is no should have or shouldn't have won. There are no stats that determine whether you deserved to have scored more points. There is no stat that tells you how many points you scored or allowed other than the score. There are thousands of statistics in a football game and billions of different statistical inputs that could result in a win or loss. No 2 are the same. To try to denigrate a win by judging the underlying statistics in order to determine who played better is nuts.
As I have always said, the best team in the NFL wins the SB every year. Why? Because there are a set of rules to determine who is the best, and it ends with who wins the SB. Who was better in September, or even through 18 games is not part of the formula. The formula is you compete to get into a playoff and the team that wins the SB is the Champion and therefore the best. DVOA doesn't change that, nor does the infamous eye test.

 

[Vindicate]

Remember in 2013, that outrageous comeback against the Broncos?

First half: Infuriated we let Peyton pass that much
Second Half: Oh, that's why we let him pass that much
OT: Oh lol, makes even more sense.

Dunno why we can't see things like that anymore. Granted, it's Fitz, but he's a (highly) more error prone QB who is subject to frustration and/or hubris. Belichick is playing these games to wear down other offenses while ours keeps rolling. A lot of yards is a lot of opportunities to ruin someone's day (it goes both ways). He is effectively giving himself the most opportunities for his defense to make a play or stop.

No one is gonna stop crying, but as long as that PPG stays low, I really can't keep dogging on the defense that much. It's frustrating to watch, we're always worried about a high powered offense but will literally never have an answer until we face this high-octane offense that will supposedly shred us. It's a weird position to be in as a fan because if you're mad, you're not going to get the answer you want (Even against Denver lol, their O is sputtering).

Anyone able to run this number? We often look at given up 3rd downs - I'd love to see a breakdown of where they are given up (0-20 yrd / mid field increments / red zone).

 

[luuked]

Remember in 2013, that outrageous comeback against the Broncos?

First half: Infuriated we let Peyton pass that much
Second Half: Oh, that's why we let him pass that much
OT: Oh lol, makes even more sense.

Dunno why we can't see things like that anymore. Granted, it's Fitz, but he's a (highly) more error prone QB who is subject to frustration and/or hubris. Belichick is playing these games to wear down other offenses while ours keeps rolling. A lot of yards is a lot of opportunities to ruin someone's day (it goes both ways). He is effectively giving himself the most opportunities for his defense to make a play or stop.

No one is gonna stop crying, but as long as that PPG stays low, I really can't keep dogging on the defense that much. It's frustrating to watch, we're always worried about a high powered offense but will literally never have an answer until we face this high-octane offense that will supposedly shred us. It's a weird position to be in as a fan because if you're mad, you're not going to get the answer you want (Even against Denver lol, their O is sputtering).

Anyone able to run this number? We often look at given up 3rd downs - I'd love to see a breakdown of where they are given up (0-20 yrd / mid field increments / red zone).

Still remember people jerking off over Moreno having 200+ yards in the game when it was all for nothing. We made Peyton check out of pass plays in most cases and took away their biggest strength which was their passing offense in that year.

 

[deroc5050]

You should just stop watching.

I know they have played 9 of the 12 worst offenses in football and they make every QB look like a HOF. The points aloud stat is deceiving. I am a die hard pats fan but I see 2 things happening. Their offense is starting to slow down and their defense has been lucky all year playing some bad offenses. The only reason I am critical of their questionable play is because its Super Bowl or bust. 3 weeks ago I thought they were the favorite to win the Super Bowl, I am not so sure anymore.

I have no read on this team what so ever. Good or Bad. This Pats team is a little different. And to be honest I think its cause of their relatively weak or favorable schedule.

 

[Ring 6]

I know they have played 9 of the 12 worst offenses in football and they make every QB look like a HOF.

this is where you look like a tool.
Against those QBs they have been the 3rd stingiest defense in the NFL.
How many HOFers scored 18 points a game?
If your argument was they have been good but not great and you are concerned with will happen against different QBs then there could be a discussion but when you throw out crap like this you clown yourself.

 

[deroc5050]

this is where you look like a tool.
Against those QBs they have been the 3rd stingiest defense in the NFL.
How many HOFers scored 18 points a game?
If your argument was they have been good but not great and you are concerned with will happen against different QBs then there could be a discussion but when you throw out crap like this you clown yourself.

Obviously it was a slight exaggeration, but you can throw against this team. I've seen it all year long against mediocre QB's. Wait until we play a good QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Obviously it was a slight exaggeration, but you can throw against this team. I've seen it all year long against mediocre QB's. Wait until we play a good QB.

By what measure have they played 9 of the worst 12 offenses? Did you just make that up?

 

[Ring 6]

Obviously it was a slight exaggeration, but you can throw against this team. I've seen it all year long against mediocre QB's. Wait until we play a good QB.

All year long teans have not put up points.
How do you not realize that having a bad QB throw a lot against you and not put up points is a smart game plan?

 

[jimnance]

Heres what a lot of these clowns dont understand: BB makes other teams play to the Pats strengths on defense-he dictates how the game is played-not the other way around. So yes, the Pats really play the most aggressive defense in the nfl. He makes them play the way BB wants them to play, not how they want. If thats not aggressive, I dont know what is. What is arguably the Pats biggest strength on D? Well, we know the pats are the best tackling team in the nfl-by far. That is evidenced by the fact they are #1 in the nfl in allowing fewest yards after the catch. So does it not make sense to give up short passes knowing your guys wont let them get far? The Pats are also by far the most game planning team in the nfl. So its not always the same. But as others here have noted, the game plan vs. fitz was brilliant. make him slowly work his way down the filed, time after time after time-until he makes the inevitable mistake. Its a plan that makes sense vs. young and mistake-prone qbs.

 

[deroc5050]

By what measure have they played 9 of the worst 12 offenses? Did you just make that up?

No I heard it on EEI. Most people in the media and a lot of fans can see that the Pats defense isn't very good. They can't rush the passer.. And the secondary gets abused because of it.. now I know they have given up 17 points a game, but thats deceiving. I know to you it doesn't matter who they have played, but it does to me.

I don't really see them improving much in the pass rush, so they are just gonna have to cover better when crunch time comes, if they are gonna win it all.

I don't really want to see them blitz to much, I would rather make teams work their way down field rather than give up huge plays because the Blitz got picked up.

 

[Bruins29]

No I heard it on EEI. Most people in the media and a lot of fans can see that the Pats defense isn't very good.

Whatever little credibility you had (and you did not have much) just went down the drain with that statement.

This has now become laughable and I am embarrassed for you.

"A lot of fans".... comedy.

 

[Ring 6]

No I heard it on EEI. Most people in the media and a lot of fans can see that the Pats defense isn't very good. They can't rush the passer.. And the secondary gets abused because of it.. now I know they have given up 17 points a game, but thats deceiving. I know to you it doesn't matter who they have played, but it does to me.

Well what you heard is wrong. They have not played 9 of the bottom 12 offenses by any measure.
And points allowed can not be deceiving they are on the scoreboard and they are what determines a winner.
The secondary had not come close to being abused.

I don't really see them improving much in the pass rush, so they are just gonna have to cover better when crunch time comes, if they are gonna win it all.

They are a game plan defense so since they haven't played those teams you don't really know what the plan will be.
But ultimately a pass rush is able to be neutralized way more often than not so you have to more tha rush the passer.
I'm just curious why you think all those teams that keep getting worse defensive results are better than one getting better ones.
You refuse to name the ones you think are better but we all know why; you know just like 9 of the worst 12 and other crap you throw up there once you expose your opinion to examination you are wrong.

 

[Ring 6]

Whatever little credibility you had (and you did not have much) just went down the drain with that statement.

This has now become laughable and I am embarrassed for you.

"A lot of fans".... comedy.

How about the media? That's a great source too huh?

 

[deroc5050]

Whatever little credibility you had (and you did not have much) just went down the drain with that statement.

This has now become laughable and I am embarrassed for you.

"A lot of fans".... comedy.

Laugh all you want, **** I hope your right and this D steps up. I am not a blind homer.

 

[skinnydog]

Heres what a lot of these clowns dont understand: BB makes other teams play to the Pats strengths on defense-he dictates how the game is played-not the other way around. So yes, the Pats really play the most aggressive defense in the nfl. He makes them play the way BB wants them to play, not how they want. If thats not aggressive, I dont know what is. What is arguably the Pats biggest strength on D? Well, we know the pats are the best tackling team in the nfl-by far. That is evidenced by the fact they are #1 in the nfl in allowing fewest yards after the catch. So does it not make sense to give up short passes knowing your guys wont let them get far? The Pats are also by far the most game planning team in the nfl. So its not always the same. But as others here have noted, the game plan vs. fitz was brilliant. make him slowly work his way down the filed, time after time after time-until he makes the inevitable mistake. Its a plan that makes sense vs. young and mistake-prone qbs.

Far from making a lot of mistakes Fitz had about his best game of the year. Most aggressive team? Really? So Bellichik wants the other team to posses the ball for long periods of time converting a lot of third downs while keeping the GOAT QB on the bench? When Belichick says they have to get better on third downs he's really lying because he doesn't really mind teams driving up and down the field?

 

[Bruins29]

How about the media? That's a great source too huh?

Yep, "the Media says so" is even more laughable.