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The aid that NE got from officiating is terribly overblown. I will grant you that I had no idea that a "tuck" rule existed, so there is some luck in that. In the 2001 SB they were lucky that Martz had his head up his arse, but no officiating help.

I agree with the rest of your post but you must have missed game 2 vs the Jets where the Pats sacked Vinnie (he was a Jet then, really!) and recovered the fumble only to have the Tuck Rule invoked and the evil Jets retain possession. I was at that game and upset about the call, never having heard of the Tuck Rule at the time, which incidently was invoked many times in the 2001 season. That was the game where Moe Lewis entered the Patriots HOF.
 
I agree with the rest of your post but you must have missed game 2 vs the Jets where the Pats sacked Vinnie (he was a Jet then, really!) and recovered the fumble only to have the Tuck Rule invoked and the evil Jets retain possession. I was at that game and upset about the call, never having heard of the Tuck Rule at the time, which incidently was invoked many times in the 2001 season. That was the game where Moe Lewis entered the Patriots HOF.

Regretably I was at the Big E on that day so I missed that game. Since then I have heard of numerous instances of the tuck rule, but I was unaware of it at the time.

All that said, I had a strong inclination that NE would get the ball back.
 
funny how everyone here forgets the mauling of the Colts receivers in their previous AFCCG meeting, I mean thats Pats mauled the receivers so bad the league had to re-inforce the rules based of of that one game

You mean when the colts lost a playoff game yet again so they needed an excuse to make up for there inabilty to beat the pats?
 
WOW. Talk about making things up.

1) The Colts have a huge uphill battle for themselves this year with the losses of Glenn, Rhodes, June, Doss, Harper, and McFarland.

2) Pretty amazing how you basically copied what Pats fans said in 2003 and 2004 when people were talking about the Pats losing 2 or 3 starters.

3) Its a bold-faced lie that no one gave Indy a chance going into the play-offs. They had home field advantage.

As for Indy last year, you don't win if the game was called correctly. There were 3 incorrect calls made against the Pats during the AFCC Game. 3 calls that clearly change the course of the game. The 1st was the pass interference call on Hobbs for "FACE GUARDING". Hobbs received a letter of apology from the league AND the league's head of officiating stated there was no such thing as face guarding and there hasn't been for years. The 2nd was the offensive pass interference on Troy Brown. And the Last was the NON-CALL against Kelvin Hayden in the end zone where he CLEARLY made contact with Caldwell, CHANGING Caldwell's route and interfering with Caldwell's ability to adjust to the ball. That was a text book case of pass interference that went un-called.

First of all, the only bad call I agree w/ is Hobbs call. The rest are bogus.
Secondly, must i remind you of the bold-face cheating done by the patriots in years past? Such as faking injuries to catch your breath, ridiculous rules created on the spot, and my favorite, hitting receivers after 5-yards when it is illegal to do so.

Please stop crying about bad calls. It's neither here nor there.

I'll agree that the Colts have an uphill battle to climb but so what? Nobody said it was going to be easy to repeat. I look forward to seeing my team step up to challenge. And I especially can't wait for the November game. Think we can make it 4 victories in a row?
 
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You mean when the colts lost a playoff game yet again so they needed an excuse to make up for there inabilty to beat the pats?

what's this inability to beat the pats you speak of?
 
First of all, the only bad call I agree w/ is Hobbs call. The rest are bogus.
Secondly, must i remind you of the bold-face cheating done by the patriots in years past? Such as faking injuries to catch your breath, ridiculous rules created on the spot, and my favorite, hitting receivers after 5-yards when it is illegal to do so.

Please stop crying about bad calls. It's neither here nor there.

I'll agree that the Colts have an uphill battle to climb but so what? Nobody said it was going to be easy to repeat. I look forward to seeing my team step up to challenge. And I especially can't wait for the November game. Think we can make it 4 victories in a row?

None of the calls were bogus. The Hayden/Caldwell one was textbook PI and I can't see how anyone would bother to deny it. I will admit that the Brown OPI call I thought was OK until I saw a replay on youtube. On the replay it was clear as day that the defender slid over to his left into Brown's path.

I still have to ask, why is the cheating by NE so dispicable but Indy's cheating just fine? Indy's OL holds consistently. Where was the clamor from the competition committee about that?

All teams bend the rules a little and that is OK. It is OK when they get away with it and it is OK when they don't. What gets my goat is when Polian is politicing for calls before the game asking the refs to be cognizant of PI and IC by the defense......

And Indy gets away with two of those and NE gets called for one that didn't happen.
 
First of all, the only bad call I agree w/ is Hobbs call. The rest are bogus.

If you agree with the Hobbs call you also have to agree with the NON-CALL against Kelvion Hayden because Hayden mauled Caldwell and that was a TD otherwise.

Secondly, must i remind you of the bold-face cheating done by the patriots in years past? Such as faking injuries to catch your breath, ridiculous rules created on the spot, and my favorite, hitting receivers after 5-yards when it is illegal to do so.

Bold-faced cheating? God, you are hilarious. And clueless.

Really? Faking injuries? You must be referring to Willie McGinest and his going off for 3 plays during the game where Manning and James choked.

What ridiculous rule was created on the spot? Do you mean the TUCK RULE which was created in 1989 to protect Steve Young and other mobile quarterbacks while also giving the referees a standard reference point to look for?

As for the chuck rule, give me a break. If the refs aren't calling it, that's not the fault of the Patriots.

Please stop crying about bad calls. It's neither here nor there.

*ROFLMOA* You are the one crying about stuff. I was talking fact. Something you don't understand.

I'll agree that the Colts have an uphill battle to climb but so what? Nobody said it was going to be easy to repeat. I look forward to seeing my team step up to challenge. And I especially can't wait for the November game. Think we can make it 4 victories in a row?

I guess you missed the whole point of this thread. You're name fits you well. You're a troll. But more so a moron.
 
Everyone's OL holds, I don't think Indy does it any more than any other team.

I cite the Hobbs call as legit because of the apology from the league, truth be told I'd have to go back and check to see if the rest were actually bogus. First inclination is to side w/ my team on calls.

There's a big difference when it is cheating done on purpose and calls that aren't being made by the refs. Dungy wouldn't have his players fake an injury (even if he gambled that the required subsequent sit outs were worth it). But Bill Bellichick is not above this because while it is not within the spirit of the rule, the subsequent sit out may be worth the gamble if it will prevent an overexhausted defense from being run over. BB is considered smart because he knows the rules and therefore knows how to properly break them without being caught. Dungy, for better or worse, is too moralistic to do that.

None of the calls were bogus. The Hayden/Caldwell one was textbook PI and I can't see how anyone would bother to deny it. I will admit that the Brown OPI call I thought was OK until I saw a replay on youtube. On the replay it was clear as day that the defender slid over to his left into Brown's path.

I still have to ask, why is the cheating by NE so dispicable but Indy's cheating just fine? Indy's OL holds consistently. Where was the clamor from the competition committee about that?

All teams bend the rules a little and that is OK. It is OK when they get away with it and it is OK when they don't. What gets my goat is when Polian is politicing for calls before the game asking the refs to be cognizant of PI and IC by the defense......

And Indy gets away with two of those and NE gets called for one that didn't happen.
 
Everyone's OL holds, I don't think Indy does it any more than any other team.

I cite the Hobbs call as legit because of the apology from the league, truth be told I'd have to go back and check to see if the rest were actually bogus. First inclination is to side w/ my team on calls.

There's a big difference when it is cheating done on purpose and calls that aren't being made by the refs. Dungy wouldn't have his players fake an injury (even if he gambled that the required subsequent sit outs were worth it). But Bill Bellichick is not above this because while it is not within the spirit of the rule, the subsequent sit out may be worth the gamble if it will prevent an overexhausted defense from being run over. BB is considered smart because he knows the rules and therefore knows how to properly break them without being caught. Dungy, for better or worse, is too moralistic to do that.

I agree that everyone holds (although I see *at least* two uncalled "jersey stretching out from the back as an OL holds on for deal life" type holds on Indy every time they play NE, typically with Seymour being the recipient) and that is just the point. I am sure that Indy's OL coach and the OL themselves are aware of just how much leeway they are being given and act accordingly. If the refs seem to be letting they get away with some jersey grabbing they will grab jersey. It is just as intentional as NE coaches instructing their DBs to pound Indy's receivers until the refs stop them.

Yes, Big Willie most likely exaggerated his injury to help NE catch their breath. It certainly seemed to me that he could have finished the remaining 5 yard stroll to the sideline without lying down. I can see why that would upset Indy fans. But I still don't see why it is any worse than crying to the competition committee under the guise of doing what is best the game. What a bunch of BS. Polian and Dungy complained purely because it was best for their team. Nothing more, nothing less.

Let's stop trying to make our players morally superior because I really don't see much of a difference. Both teams have their share of good guys and not so good. Both teams do a decent job of keeping the slime of the league off of their rosters.
 
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I agree that everyone holds (although I see *at least* two uncalled "jersey stretching out from the back as an OL holds on for deal life" type holds on Indy every time they play NE, typically with Seymour being the recipient) and that is just the point. I am sure that Indy's OL coach and the OL themselves are aware of just how much leeway they are being given and act accordingly. If the refs seem to be letting they get away with some jersey grabbing they will grab jersey. It is just as intentional as NE coaches instructing their DBs to pound Indy's receivers until the refs stop them.

Colt's line holds no more or less than any other line. Pure fantasy on your part. I have yet to see this supposed "holding" mentioned anywhere but here. Watch Dwight Freeney on every play. The way he gets held is downright CRIMINAL.

Yes, Big Willie most likely exaggerated his injury to help NE catch their breath. It certainly seemed to me that he could have finished the remaining 5 yard stroll to the sideline without lying down. I can see why that would upset Indy fans. But I still don't see why it is any worse than crying to the competition committee under the guise of doing what is best the game. What a bunch of BS. Polian and Dungy complained purely because it was best for their team. Nothing more, nothing less.

Let's stop trying to make our players morally superior because I really don't see much of a difference. Both teams have their share of good guys and not so good. Both teams do a decent job of keeping the slime of the league off of their rosters.

First of all, why is it ok for NE to bend the rules as they see fit but not ok for the Colt's to complain about it? Are the Patriots immune to the rule book? I don't think so. Also, the Colt's weren't the only team complaining about the pats blatant rulebreaking. IIRC, St. Louis and Philly also complained about it. So don't lay it all at Polians feet.
 
2) The calls weren't consistent at all. Hobbs is called for just being near Wayne. Alright, I'll grant you that one. But Hayden literally grabbed Caldwell with two hands before the ball even appears on the screen, no call. And the defender initiated the contact on Brown. Weren't the officials supposed to be looking for illegal defensive contact?

Hobbs made contact with Reggie before the ball got there. When you look at the video its as plain as the nose on my face. I don't know what you people are looking at.

3) The league formally apologized to Hobbs for the call.

I don't expect any Indy fans to feel bad about it. Neither the fact that NE got away with some stuff in 2003 not the tuck rule in 2001 dampened my pleasure of seeing NE win the SB. But Indy inarguably were the benefactors of some onesided officiating. No real reason to dispute the obvious. Just admit that it happened, stick out your toungue and say "Nah-nah-nah nah nah nnnaaaaaaaaaahhhhh" :p

NFL: Hobbs call was correct

By Mike Reiss and Ron Borges, Globe Staff | January 28, 2007

NFL vice president of communications Greg Aiello clarified remarks regarding the pass interference call against Patriots cornerback Ellis Hobbs in the third quarter of the AFC Championship game.

The penalty -- which came on a second and 7 from the Patriots' 19-yard line -- gave the Colts a first down at the 1, and they subsequently scored, and made a 2-point conversion, to tie the score at 21-21.

Aiello said the penalty was the correct call because there was contact made by Hobbs. Had Hobbs not made contact, there should have been no penalty called for "face-guarding," which was the explanation given by CBS announcer Phil Simms.

"There is no such thing as face-guarding," Aiello said. "There must be contact to have a foul."

After the game, Hobbs said he had not made contact.

"I never touched him and the ball hit me in the back of the arm," Hobbs said.


Well, it can't be both. Methinks the NFL should clarify. Until then, I'll go with Greg Aiello's OFFICIAL announcement over Ellis Hobbs.
 
Hobbs made contact with Reggie before the ball got there. When you look at the video its as plain as the nose on my face. I don't know what you people are looking at.

He said he gave you that one. Now stop ignoring the two blatant botched calls he was talking about. (Caldwell, Brown)
 
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Everyone's OL holds, I don't think Indy does it any more than any other team.

I cite the Hobbs call as legit because of the apology from the league, truth be told I'd have to go back and check to see if the rest were actually bogus. First inclination is to side w/ my team on calls.

There's a big difference when it is cheating done on purpose and calls that aren't being made by the refs. Dungy wouldn't have his players fake an injury (even if he gambled that the required subsequent sit outs were worth it). But Bill Bellichick is not above this because while it is not within the spirit of the rule, the subsequent sit out may be worth the gamble if it will prevent an overexhausted defense from being run over. BB is considered smart because he knows the rules and therefore knows how to properly break them without being caught. Dungy, for better or worse, is too moralistic to do that.

Dungy is to moral? I thought he spent his spare time gay bashing? Must make you sad he does that, ha! As for "cheating" LOL. Typical colts fans excuse as to why they could not win a sb until they lucked one of last year. Everyone knows it was luck. Inside they all know

Btw the tuck rule was used many times in 2001 and once against the pats when they played the jets. That rule was created years before, not on the spot.:eek: :cool: :singing:
 
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Colt's line holds no more or less than any other line. Pure fantasy on your part. I have yet to see this supposed "holding" mentioned anywhere but here. Watch Dwight Freeney on every play. The way he gets held is downright CRIMINAL.

First of all, why is it ok for NE to bend the rules as they see fit but not ok for the Colt's to complain about it? Are the Patriots immune to the rule book? I don't think so. Also, the Colt's weren't the only team complaining about the pats blatant rulebreaking. IIRC, St. Louis and Philly also complained about it. So don't lay it all at Polians feet.

All those teams have one thing in common. They LOST to the pats :singing: :p In the colts case it was almost a tradition. Losing to NE and watching them win sb's. After while you need some type of excuse.
 
Hobbs made contact with Reggie before the ball got there. When you look at the video its as plain as the nose on my face. I don't know what you people are looking at.

Even if there was contact as you claim, it did NOT interrupt Wayne's route. And that is the way the rule is written. Hayden, on the other hand, MAULED Caldwell.

NFL: Hobbs call was correct

By Mike Reiss and Ron Borges, Globe Staff | January 28, 2007

NFL vice president of communications Greg Aiello clarified remarks regarding the pass interference call against Patriots cornerback Ellis Hobbs in the third quarter of the AFC Championship game.

The penalty -- which came on a second and 7 from the Patriots' 19-yard line -- gave the Colts a first down at the 1, and they subsequently scored, and made a 2-point conversion, to tie the score at 21-21.

Aiello said the penalty was the correct call because there was contact made by Hobbs. Had Hobbs not made contact, there should have been no penalty called for "face-guarding," which was the explanation given by CBS announcer Phil Simms.

"There is no such thing as face-guarding," Aiello said. "There must be contact to have a foul."

After the game, Hobbs said he had not made contact.

"I never touched him and the ball hit me in the back of the arm," Hobbs said.


Well, it can't be both. Methinks the NFL should clarify. Until then, I'll go with Greg Aiello's OFFICIAL announcement over Ellis Hobbs.

How do you figure? The league apologized to Hobbs for making a "FACE GUARDING" call. That was the call on the field. Face-guarding. NOT CONTACT (which there wasn't unless you have some superhuman eyes that can see down from above on a camera angle that only showed a side view, which doesn't give you depth.) There is no "FACE GUARDING" penalty as Greg Aiello said.

The fact of the matter is that the ball was UNDER thrown and that Wayne never made an attempt to come back for the ball.
 
Colt's line holds no more or less than any other line. Pure fantasy on your part. I have yet to see this supposed "holding" mentioned anywhere but here. Watch Dwight Freeney on every play. The way he gets held is downright CRIMINAL.

BS. The Colts O-line holds more than any other team in the league. As for the over-rated Dwight Freeney, no, he doesn't get held on every play. But that is typical of a major class Colts homer.

First of all, why is it ok for NE to bend the rules as they see fit but not ok for the Colt's to complain about it? Are the Patriots immune to the rule book? I don't think so. Also, the Colt's weren't the only team complaining about the pats blatant rulebreaking. IIRC, St. Louis and Philly also complained about it. So don't lay it all at Polians feet.

Are the Colts immune from the rule book? I don't think so. Yet they get away with so many things. Including Peyton's FLAILING behind the O-line the way he does.

Actually, the Colts were the PRIMARY team. And yes, I will lay it all at Polian's feet because he is the biggest blow-hard of them all. You know, the big man who has to push other team's employees around to feel good about himself. The piece of garbage of a man who wishes other teams players to be seriously injured.
 
Hobbs made contact with Reggie before the ball got there. When you look at the video its as plain as the nose on my face. I don't know what you people are looking at.

NFL: Hobbs call was correct

By Mike Reiss and Ron Borges, Globe Staff | January 28, 2007

NFL vice president of communications Greg Aiello clarified remarks regarding the pass interference call against Patriots cornerback Ellis Hobbs in the third quarter of the AFC Championship game.

The penalty -- which came on a second and 7 from the Patriots' 19-yard line -- gave the Colts a first down at the 1, and they subsequently scored, and made a 2-point conversion, to tie the score at 21-21.

Aiello said the penalty was the correct call because there was contact made by Hobbs. Had Hobbs not made contact, there should have been no penalty called for "face-guarding," which was the explanation given by CBS announcer Phil Simms.

"There is no such thing as face-guarding," Aiello said. "There must be contact to have a foul."

After the game, Hobbs said he had not made contact.

"I never touched him and the ball hit me in the back of the arm," Hobbs said.


Well, it can't be both. Methinks the NFL should clarify. Until then, I'll go with Greg Aiello's OFFICIAL announcement over Ellis Hobbs.

One story is dated Jan 28th, and immediately after the game (perfect CYA time). The other is dated in late July. You side with the one dated earlier because it suits you, not because it is reasonable to do so. Why would Hobbs lie? It wouldn't be difficult at all for a media member to confirm the letter story, so he would still just deny making contact rather than adding that piece.

As I said in the link above, I wasn't all that upset about that call on its own. It is how that call was made in relation to the others where Indy defenders made about 500X more contact without getting flagged - one time it was actually the NE receiver who was called - when Polian specifically preached to the refs about paying attention to defensive contact.

Colt's line holds no more or less than any other line. Pure fantasy on your part. I have yet to see this supposed "holding" mentioned anywhere but here. Watch Dwight Freeney on every play. The way he gets held is downright CRIMINAL.

I have no doubt that Dwight is held regularly. But with regard to your claim that Indy doesn't hold more than any other team, my eyes don't agree. Since 2003, I have only seen one game where *any* team held as much as Indy does every time they face NE (caveat: of course I am talking mostly of NE games here). That was the Giants in 2003, who literally held at least one defender on every single play from scrimage in the first half with nary a call made. It was a tremendously frustrating game to watch.

That said, I brought up Indy's propensity to have OLs be dragging behind defenders for this reason: If instead of getting away with IC in the 2003 AFCCG NE got away with an incredible amount of OL holding while Indy was muscling WRs around you can be damn sure that the focus of the competition committee would have been OL holding. Polian's "concern for the purety of the game" is a complete and total farce.

First of all, why is it ok for NE to bend the rules as they see fit but not ok for the Colt's to complain about it? Are the Patriots immune to the rule book? I don't think so. Also, the Colt's weren't the only team complaining about the pats blatant rulebreaking. IIRC, St. Louis and Philly also complained about it. So don't lay it all at Polians feet.

Philly was not involved in that, but StL was. However, this does not help your cause at all because they were in the same position as Indy - offensive team that lost to NE.

And just so you know, there are plays from every single game that are sent to the league for review, quitely behind the scenes. I am sure that NE submits plenty of these every year, so it is not complaining, per se, that bothers me. It is the open politicing to every single person that was willing to listen when Indy got away with just as much crap. Just different crap, so let's not talk about that. Indy fans love to play the moral card, but Polian would still be complaining today (without stopping since) had Indy been on the bad end of the calls in the 2006 AFFCG.

You are a fan of Indy. Your team just won the SB so I am sure that you are on that confident plateau that leads you to believe and disparaging word about the Colts is jealousy on behalf of the speaker. However, I have been saying all of this for quite some time. Indy gets away with just as much as any other team, but Polian absolutely abuses his influence on the competition committee to ensure that the rules that are most strictly followed are the ones that aid his team. There is no way anyone could deny that.
 
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Past tense dip stick. Read the original post.

It was meant as a fairly innocuous little quip.

Hey, times have changed. Pats fans seem to have forgotten this/be in denial about it/blame the refs for it.
 
Hobbs made contact with Reggie before the ball got there. When you look at the video its as plain as the nose on my face. I don't know what you people are looking at.

NFL: Hobbs call was correct

By Mike Reiss and Ron Borges, Globe Staff | January 28, 2007

NFL vice president of communications Greg Aiello clarified remarks regarding the pass interference call against Patriots cornerback Ellis Hobbs in the third quarter of the AFC Championship game.

The penalty -- which came on a second and 7 from the Patriots' 19-yard line -- gave the Colts a first down at the 1, and they subsequently scored, and made a 2-point conversion, to tie the score at 21-21.

Aiello said the penalty was the correct call because there was contact made by Hobbs. Had Hobbs not made contact, there should have been no penalty called for "face-guarding," which was the explanation given by CBS announcer Phil Simms.

"There is no such thing as face-guarding," Aiello said. "There must be contact to have a foul."

After the game, Hobbs said he had not made contact.

"I never touched him and the ball hit me in the back of the arm," Hobbs said.


Well, it can't be both. Methinks the NFL should clarify. Until then, I'll go with Greg Aiello's OFFICIAL announcement over Ellis Hobbs.

Enough. Stop trying to blindly defend your team even when you know it's making you look like an absolute fool. Show some class and admit the call was wrong. Most Colts fans did just that when Hobbs was called and when there was no defensive pass interference when Caldwell was pulled down in the endzone. They cited it as payback for no penalty on the Wayne play, but that was crap too - Wayne tripped over his own feet.

Here's how the NFL tried to defend their refs:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=49773

1/26: Vic Ketchman, citing a league source, says that face guarding is not a penalty (as we all know) and Hobbs shouldn't have been penalized.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=49880

1/28: Aiello says that faceguarding is not a penalty, but Hobbs did make contact with Wayne, defending the integrity of their refs.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=57854

7/27: We first learn of the NFL's secret apology to Hobbs, only through his mouth only.
 
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