Mark Daniels: Gronk, Solder, and Jonathan Cooper are not on flight to AZ

[BradyFTW!]

The Rams are a division opponent, and they finished at 7-9, which isn't godawful or anything. Using your argument, the Patriots couldn't have been that good last year, since they lost to the 6-10 Dolphins. And the Cardinals lost the Steelers game because they turned the ball over 3 times to the Steelers 0, while the Patriots lost to the Eagles while only losing the turnover battle 2 to 1, which was every bit as inexcusable, if not more so, than the Cardinals losing to the Steelers. Also, in the past 2 seasons, the Cardinals have the same regular season record as the Patriots (24-8), and they've lost fewer games to sub .500 teams than have the Patriots.

It's the NFL. 16-0 in the regular season has only been done once. Teams have clunker games. That doesn't mean they aren't good/great/elite teams.

Yup, by any logic that dictates the Cardinals weren't good last year, the Patriots could not have been good either. Any logic that affirms the Patriots were good must also affirm that the Cardinals were similarly good.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here we go again with the deep threat receiver fetish. The biggest problem with quality deep threat guys is that they cost too much money for the return you get. Cover 2 and Cover 3 defenses pretty much negate a big deep threat receiver, and get them worked over at the line.

The game is changing to TEs and possession receivers. Give me 100+ catches from an Edelman or a Welker to keep the chains moving and to keep the defense off the field over a big WR any day.

Aside from the Patriots, name the SB winning teams built around the (small) possession receivers and TEs since 2000.

 

[ViperGTS]

.


Agreed.

Had arguably the best deep threat of all-time and didn't win a SB.

Have won 4 SB with the following WRs : Troy Brown, Julian Edelman, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten, Brandon LaFell, and Danny Amendola

Yet people continue to pound the table about a deep threat.

The team doesn't need a friggen deep threat. Needs good health and solid OL play.

The NFL has changed. You do understand that Seatttle played a lot of zone right? Denver played a lot of man. IF you can cover the middle of the field in man and there is no deep threat, you get what happened in Denver. Catastrophe. Safeties cheat towards the middle and clog up the area that those guys work in.

It's astonishing the lack of fundamental football knowledge in regards to this point. You don't need a deep threat against a zone team. You need someone against an elite man defense. It's not a hard theory to comprehend. It's nothing to do about feeding a deep threat constantly. It's about it being there, and planting the seed in the safeties minds.

If the Pats had one in January, they would have won the SB. They didn't and Denver clogged the middle of the field. That they did what they did was a testament to Bradys greatness. Most QBs would have been shutout in the same circumstance.

 

[ViperGTS]

Yup, by any logic that dictates the Cardinals weren't good last year, the Patriots could not have been good either. Any logic that affirms the Patriots were good must also affirm that the Cardinals were similarly good.

Wrong. I live here. When the Cards lose, they lose. They have a proclivity to lose at moments notice. I don't know what it is. Mental. Arrogance. I don't know. It's something and people around here have had enough of it I can tell you. The NFCCG only hammered that point further home.

So no, they are nothing like the Pats.

 

[patfanken]

Please, tell the class how the OT depth and development situation was addressed.

I have done that quite adequately in about a half dozen posts. Clearly you were paying attention. Go immediately to detention and ponder your navel.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have done that quite adequately in about a half dozen posts. Clearly you were paying attention. Go immediately to detention and ponder your navel.

This is as close as you came:

Yeah. but who did you want them to add. They already had Cannon, (whom they obviously like, even if you don't), Waddle, and Flemming. Plus Tuney who was a good T all through college, Kline, and Stork, all who have played OT in the past. How many OT's did you want them to have in camp?

The team itself said Tuney's a guard, and Stork was never in the mix at tackle. As for Kline, well, I'm sure you can figure that one out.

They didn't address the position at all, so that "about a half a dozen posts" nonsense was just that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wrong. I live here. When the Cards lose, they lose. They have a proclivity to lose at moments notice. I don't know what it is. Mental. Arrogance. I don't know. It's something and people around here have had enough of it I can tell you. The NFCCG only hammered that point further home.

So no, they are nothing like the Pats.

And I assume you were watching the AFCCG earlier that same day, and saw who lost that game?

The Cardinals went 13-3 last year, and made it to the NFCCG. Any nitpicking that you can engage in to try to diminish them to being a sub-elite team also applies to the Pats. Either they were both elite or neither was.

Counterarguments like "when they lose, they lose" and "I don't know what it is. Mental. Arrogance. I don't know" are just empty, meaningless platitudes that further make my point because if that's the best argument you have then you have nothing. Even those apply at least as much to the Pats team that sleepwalked its way to losses against the the Eagles, Jets and Dolphins down the stretch, throwing away HFA in the process.

The Cardinals had a better record in a more difficult conference and more difficult division than the Pats played in. They advanced equally as far as we did. I'd agree that their chances of taking a dramatic step backward are greater than ours, mostly because Brady is a better, healthier, and more consistent QB than Palmer. But if Palmer stays healthy and as productive as he's been the last 3 years, they're right alongside us as one of the top 5 teams (with no clear frontrunner) in the NFL.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't know who should blow what out of their navels or portholes, but, when I heard that Gronk was "out," I could only echo the immortal words of Daffy Duck, "What a revolting development this is."

 

[supafly]

ponder your navel.

I did that last night before bed. I think. Maybe.

 

[Jackson 2]

I don't know who should blow what out of their navels or portholes, but, when I heard that Gronk was "out," I could only echo the immortal words of Daffy Duck, "What a revolting development this is."

Originated by Chester A. Riley even before I was born.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Then your point makes f**k all sense. What "star WR" are they going to get in the next day or the next couple of weeks? Because that's the point you're making when you say they need to go get one. Haven't played one snap of regular season football and it's the "WR suck". Such a pessimistic whiner take.

Onus is on you to prove to me that Edelman has been banged up all preseason. He left practice on August 9th because he aggravated something in his foot and then returned the next day and was cutting on a soaked failed. Didn't miss a practice the rest of the preseason and isn't on the injury list for this game. So this "Edelman has been hurt all preseason" is a figment of your imagination that you are using to help the point you are trying to make.

As for him returning from injury, if we are gonna apply that to Edelman then surely you apply the "coming back from surgery" tag to Mathieu as well as he was only removed from the PUP list on August 16th, 9 days after Edelman was.




5 rec 49 yards 9.8 ypc


That's what Sanders statline was against a mediocre CB last night with a 1st year starter. Emmanuel Sanders isn't a WR that isn't gonna carry a team when a guy like Gronk is out.


Ya LaFell was good in '14 but the first three games 80% of this board called him a bust signing. But ya let's write off Hogan and Mitchell before a snap has been played. Team doesn't need a "star WR" it needs a WR that can play in this system.

Pats had arguably the best "star WR" in the game in Randy Moss and never won with him. But have won with the likes of David Patten, David Givens, Deion Branch, Julian Edelman, Troy Brown, Danny Amendola, and Brandon LaFell.

Im sorry, but to say "never won with him" in regards to Randy Moss, is just plain wrong and misleading.

In reality, all they did was win with him.
He was not the reason they lost the SB that year. Not to mention, he had a TD in that game also.

 

[Deus Irae]

Im sorry, but to say "never won with him" in regards to Randy Moss, is just plain wrong and misleading.

In reality, all they did was win with him.
He was not the reason they lost the SB that year. Not to mention, he had a TD in that game also.

2007: 18-1, arguably the best team in NFL history, screwed in SB
2008: Brady down
2009: Brady a shell of himself
2010: Moss fading, and gone after just a few games


The Patriots really only had "Real" Moss and "Real" Brady together for one season (and what a season that was), but that doesn't really fit the narrative of those defending the team's lack of a real outside WR middle-deep threat.

 

[Froob]

2007: 18-1, arguably the best team in NFL history, screwed in SB
2008: Brady down
2009: Brady a shell of himself
2010: Moss fading, and gone after just a few games


The Patriots really only had "Real" Moss and "Real" Brady together for one season (and what a season that was), but that doesn't really fit the narrative of those defending the team's lack of a real outside WR middle-deep threat.

Also a shame the Brady injury and Wes injury cost Wes two of his best seasons for the playoffs.

 

[supafly]

Originated by Chester A. Riley even before I was born.

Holy ****! You'd have to go back quite awhile for that.

 

[VJCPatriot]

We are really thin on the OL. Not having Gronk is also a big blow. People are going to need to step up big time.

A big game from Bennett and AJ Derby would surely help. We might go more to the running game on the road. I'm afraid that crowd noise could be a big factor. Especially if we let them get ahead early.

Let's see if this defense can help win this game for us. HUGE test for the Pats in Game 1 of the new season!

 

[Deus Irae]

Just something to think about....

Patriots "ideal" starting lineup:

Brady
Lewis
Gronk
Edelman
Amendola
Bennett/Hogan
Solder
Thuney
Andrews
Cooper
Vollmer

Those underlined are not playing this week.
Those in bold are eligible to play but coming off injury/surgery that held them back until recently

So, of the 11 "ideal" starters, only 3 will be available and 100% healthy and practiced and, of those 3, one is a rookie, one's coming over from another team, and one's a second year player.

 

[n1997y]

Okay, I now fear I have powers. I commented about Solder and Vollmer being injury prone and hadn't meant to really include Solder.

And now.... he's injured.

WHAT POWER HAVE I UNLEASHED?

Please start talking about Honey Badger and Chandler Jones!

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Please start talking about Honey Badger and Chandler Jones!

I may kill them at this rate... I don't want blood on my hands.

 

[FourierSeries]

Yup, by any logic that dictates the Cardinals weren't good last year, the Patriots could not have been good either. Any logic that affirms the Patriots were good must also affirm that the Cardinals were similarly good.

It's not the same at all. Patriots were the most decimated team last year. They were absolutely ravaged by injury. They were by far the best team in the league, but couldn't realize their potential due to circumstances beyond their control. The same cannot be said for Arizona.

 

[ViperGTS]

And I assume you were watching the AFCCG earlier that same day, and saw who lost that game?

The Cardinals went 13-3 last year, and made it to the NFCCG. Any nitpicking that you can engage in to try to diminish them to being a sub-elite team also applies to the Pats. Either they were both elite or neither was.

Counterarguments like "when they lose, they lose" and "I don't know what it is. Mental. Arrogance. I don't know" are just empty, meaningless platitudes that further make my point because if that's the best argument you have then you have nothing. Even those apply at least as much to the Pats team that sleepwalked its way to losses against the the Eagles, Jets and Dolphins down the stretch, throwing away HFA in the process.

The Cardinals had a better record in a more difficult conference and more difficult division than the Pats played in. They advanced equally as far as we did. I'd agree that their chances of taking a dramatic step backward are greater than ours, mostly because Brady is a better, healthier, and more consistent QB than Palmer. But if Palmer stays healthy and as productive as he's been the last 3 years, they're right alongside us as one of the top 5 teams (with no clear frontrunner) in the NFL.

What was the score of the AFCCG? And what was the score of the NFCCG? Bad comparison.

You can continue to try and argue away my points, but you can't. The team here in AZ isn't one to be trusted when the chips are down. I live here. I hear the weak talk radio at times. When the basically disaffected start complaining you know somethings up. You may be able to bring up any reasonable counterpoint to 30 other teams but not the Cardinals.

Top 5 NFL Teams
Pats
Packers
Carolina
Seahawks
Pitt

So no, they aren't top 5.