Vick Indicted!

[MoLewisrocks]

You'll be surprised of what everyone thinks down here in good Ol' ATL... They think he will get away with it, and maybe slap some fines on him...

Oh, I don't think so. Even on the Falcons board where the huggers and haters had been trading insults for weeks now and the split used to be about a third for, a third against and a third just wanted it to go away - the tenor really changed overnight. I think there is a core of support, the same ones who play the race card and babble about consipracies, that will remain in denial to the end and even beyond. But there is also a groundswell of time to move on'ers who figure he's good a gone at this point whatever happens.

 

[njpatsfan]

I think there is a core of support, the same ones who play the race card and babble about consipracies, that will remain in denial to the end and even beyond.

You know you are in trouble when even Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson don't show up to defend you.

R

 

[letekro]

something tells me he's not going to do any jail time. Hes rich and famous, they get away with alot.

Not in federal court they don't.

There's no Chris Dardens and Marcia Clarks among the ranks of the US Attorneys.

 

[danny88]

Not in federal court they don't.

There's no Chris Dardens and Marcia Clarks among the ranks of the US Attorneys.

The ceo of Enron was rich as they come. The feds nailed his ass to a wall. Vick is screwed. Which is great, he is a piece of garbage. The lowest of the low fight/abuse dogs to the death. If he is convicted I hope he gets what is coming to him when he is in prison.



ESPN.com
Updated: July 17, 2007

A grand jury indicted Atlanta Falcons' quarterback Michael Vick on Tuesday, which at least partially answers one question that has lingered since the news first broke about an alleged dogfighting operation on property owned by Vick in Virginia: Was Vick involved? Obviously, we know now that investigators believe he was.

There are plenty of football-related issues still to be resolved about Vick's future with the Falcons and the NFL, but those might be the least of his concerns right now. Questions about his legal future abound at the moment. Here are some answers.

What do these federal charges mean for Michael Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques, and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul now facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire Enron CEO who is now residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle.

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?

Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

What is the next step for Vick?

Vick will now watch to see which of his three co-defendants will be the first to make a deal with federal prosecutors. Each of them will think seriously about turning on Vick and offering testimony against him in return for less time in jail. Vick obviously is the prime target of the government effort. Prosecutors and agents will be willing to talk with his co-defendants about a deal if they are willing to help prove the case against Vick. The government indictment discloses four witnesses who have already agreed to testify against him. If all three of his co-defendants join these four witnesses against Vick, he and his lawyers might suggest that he, too, should talk to the government about a deal that would minimize his time in jail.

Vick is charged with "conspiracy" and violations of the "Travel Act." What does that mean?

The conspiracy charge will make things extra difficult for Vick and his lawyers. Under federal laws, the conspiracy charge allows federal prosecutors to link Vick to things that occurred even if he was not present. If the prosecutors can connect the four defendants, then crimes committed by one of them can be used to add to the evidence against the others. It's a tricky legal procedure that prosecutors love and defense lawyers detest. The Travel Act is a device invented by Robert F. Kennedy when he was Attorney General in the early '60s. It was designed for use against organized crime and made it easier to prove cases against hoodlums. In the sports world, it was used most recently in the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics bribery scandal. Federal prosecutors charged the Utah organizers under the Travel Act and proved millions of dollars in bribes. Vick, however, can take some hope from the fact that U.S. District Judge David Sam found the organizers not guilty of violating the Travel Act, even though there was powerful evidence of bribery.

What was Vick's role in the dogfighting conspiracy described in the indictment?

According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation.

When would Vick's trial begin?

The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months.

Are the federal authorities in Richmond tough on crime?

Ask Ralph Sampson, the former NBA star. He fell behind in child support payments to seven children that he had with four women, the kind of thing that is ordinarily worked out in a settlement. But instead of a settlement, Sampson found himself charged with felonies in federal court. And then, very quickly, he found himself in jail for two months on a child support charge. Yes, they're tough on crime in Richmond, and they might be particularly tough on crimes involving the torture and killing of dogs.

ESPN.com's Lester Munson is a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312

 

[DaBruinz]

Hmmm... uh, actually-- in this particular case they WERE made that way.

Using your "logic" that makes it okay, I guess...

YOU are just as whacked as Farscaper. DOGS were not meant to be bred the way Vick's business was breeding them. So, my LOGIC stands. Not your poor attempt to bastardize it.

OH, in case you missed it (which I believe you did), I am against Michael Vick and his dog-figthing and had made my stance pretty clear prior to your attempt to bastardize it.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, there is no moral equivalence either way. If the allegations are true, Vick committed a disgusting crime for which he should go to jail. I don't care what they allow in other countries. OTOH, don't compare it to war crimes and genocide. That's beyond ridiculous.

What is ridiculous is people like you who insist on blowing things out of proportion and not being bothered to read the entire thread and, therefore, miss the context.

Since you missed it, Farscaper is the one who said no one would give a rats arse about snake fighting or Piranha fighting. Yes, I was taking it to the extreme, but the example still fits.

 

[DaBruinz]

What I am interested in finding out is how many counts of animal cruelty will be brought against Vick and his crew. I'm not sure if it can be handled the same way as they handle sex offender crimes where each occurence with each victim can carry its own penalty. If that is the case, then Vick could be looking at upwards of 80 counts of animal cruelty. 1 count for every animal and carcass on the property.

 

[DaBruinz]

Naturally the Atlanta Journal Constitution (ajc) is all over this story and will be updating it's coverage non stop. According to this article, which basically lays out how Mike's days will progress from here, a summons will likely be issued today requiring the scumball to appear before a magistrate to answer the charges and enter the prefunctory not guilty plea. At that time he will surrender to federal marshalls and be formally booked.

A huge problem for any legal dream team he assembles will be they aren't up against some local DA they can bury in motions. And apparently the Richmond court is one of the speedier federal venues in the country. So barring some sort of early plea agreement to make this go away, Michael could be in and out of court pretty regularly throughout the season. He may be required to post bail and surrender his passport, and the judge could decide that he can't travel outside the jurisdiction which would make Blank and Goodell's jobs a lot easier.

There are and will be comparisons made to earlier cases like Ray-Ray's where a plea bargain resulted in no NFL action. But what those who opine that forget is that was pre the new Commissioner and conduct policy.



http://www.ajc.com/falcons/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/18/vickfans_0718.html

I was saying much the same thing last night. Vick, because of his money, is also a huge flight risk and has had numerous run ins with the law. He could be restricted to house arrest (ankle bracelet) or potentially a Federal Prision, while he awaits his trial.

 

[letekro]

I was saying much the same thing last night. Vick, because of his money, is also a huge flight risk and has had numerous run ins with the law. He could be restricted to house arrest (ankle bracelet) or potentially a Federal Prision, while he awaits his trial.

A flight risk? Really? Where would he go? Join a tribe in Papua/New Guinea? Anywhere else and he'd be recognized within 30 minutes. And numerous run ins with the law? Certainly not. Never even been charged with a crime.

Given the fact that he has no priors, is not a risk to society or the judicial system (e.g., putting bounties on potential judges and jurors), I'd say he'll be out on bail with minimal restrictions.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

A flight risk? Really? Where would he go? Join a tribe in Papua/New Guinea? Anywhere else and he'd be recognized within 30 minutes.

You DO know that there are countries that have no extradition treaty with the US, right? Places where rich folks have fled to avoid prosecution.

 

[Snowangel]

DOGS were not meant to be bred the way Vick's business was breeding them. So, my LOGIC stands.

Food for thought, DaBruinz:

"...and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

I would simply say that over the rise and fall of many empires, dogs have, indeed, been bred for the "entertainment" value of their fighting prowess-- I'm not saying it's "right", however-- I'm just saying that it happens, and that it's very presumptuous of you to decree (look it up) that dogs were not "meant" to be bred that way.

I'm just saying your logic is FLAWED. In other words--

Don't Hate the Playa. Hate the Game.

P.S.-- Go Feds Go!

 

[thesmee1]

He's also electrocuting dogs?! WTF??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19814494/

 

[letekro]

You DO know that there are countries that have no extradition treaty with the US, right? Places where rich folks have fled to avoid prosecution.

I don't know which rich folks you're referring to, but the absence of an extradition treaty does NOT mean that a country won't extradite. Faced with diplomatic pressure, most non-subscribing nations will extradite if there doesn't appear to be a political motive behind the persecution and the death penalty is inapplicable. Moreover, a country is not going to stick its neck out for an animal abuser.

Some people evade prosecution for acts committed in the U.S. because they are citizens of other nations, like Roman Polanski; maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Representative list of countries with whom we don't have a treaty: Sudan, Somalia, China, North Korea, Iran.

 

[letekro]

Food for thought, DaBruinz:

"...and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

I would simply say that over the rise and fall of many empires, dogs have, indeed, been bred for the "entertainment" value of their fighting prowess-- I'm not saying it's "right", however-- I'm just saying that it happens, and that it's very presumptuous of you to decree (look it up) that dogs were not "meant" to be bred that way.

I'm just saying your logic is FLAWED. In other words--

Don't Hate the Playa. Hate the Game.

P.S.-- Go Feds Go!

The bible reflects the logic and morals of those living more than 2,000 years ago. I hope we have learned something since then.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I don't know which rich folks you're referring to, but the absence of an extradition treaty does NOT mean that a country won't extradite. Faced with diplomatic pressure, most non-subscribing nations will extradite if there doesn't appear to be a political motive behind the persecution and the death penalty is inapplicable. Moreover, a country is not going to stick its neck out for an animal abuser.

Some people evade prosecution for acts committed in the U.S. because they are citizens of other nations, like Roman Polanski; maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Representative list of countries with whom we don't have a treaty: Sudan, Somalia, China, North Korea, Iran.

Think M Rich and sundry Carribean and S American nations.

 

[letekro]

Think M Rich and sundry Carribean and S American nations.

All have treaties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

 

[Tunescribe]

Think M Rich and sundry Carribean and S American nations.

He's not going to skip the country to avoid jail, it's not like he faces a life sentence. When all is said and done, they'll plea-bargain down to two or three years.

 

[patriot lifer]

He's not going to skip the country to avoid jail, it's not like he faces a life sentence. When all is said and done, they'll plea-bargain down to two or three years.

i don't know. he's one of the best runners the nfl has ever seen. Why not run from the law

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

All have treaties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

I wouldn't be citing wikipedia as gospel. Look at your link and you'll see all those countries not in blue that have no extradition treaty with the US.
There are 70 in all....
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/iccs/iccsv.html

As for where he'd go (potentially)and the poster who thought he'd 'only get 2-3 years in jail". What is to say that he might feel he doesn't want to spend one day in jail and is willing to use all his resources to go on the jail. I recall some tax fugitive who spent many years in Central America.....

On another note, if you read the indictment, there are at least 4 cooperating witnesses. The Feds seem to have built a solid case. This is no local yokel because when the Feds bring the hammer down, watch out.....

 

[PatsFan37]

What is ridiculous is people like you who insist on blowing things out of proportion and not being bothered to read the entire thread and, therefore, miss the context.

Since you missed it, Farscaper is the one who said no one would give a rats arse about snake fighting or Piranha fighting. Yes, I was taking it to the extreme, but the example still fits.

I'm sorry, DaBruinz, I am getting lost in all these threads and quotes of threads. Help me out, would you? When you say the example still fits, do you mean that Vick's alleged crime (which, once again, I find disgusting) is on the same level as the genocidal actions of a Sudanese warlord?