NFL News Another Damning Concussion Study (I wish this was a joke)

[neuronet]

The ideas were all valid

Neuronets fallacy about scientist vs engineer was the most stupid part of the convo

Just another instance of someone assuming of their superior intellect....place is festering with this type of fungus

Well, my vote for the stupidest is someone suggesting that the data would not be useful, even if it could be obtained. My point was that is not something a competent scientist would say on this matter, so I was not surprised to learn you were an engineer. The fact that didn't just admit you were wrong, and there is a high probability you never will, confirms you have the personality of an engineer. So, hey, at least you are in the right profession!

 

[IllegalContact]

Well, my vote for the stupidest is someone suggesting that the data would not be useful, even if it could be obtained. My point was that is not something a competent scientist would say on this matter, so I was not surprised to learn you were an engineer. The fact that didn't just admit you were wrong, and there is a high probability you never will, confirms you have the personality of an engineer. So, hey, at least you are in the right profession!

I didn't say the data would not be useful. It just would not solve the issue for the NFL......which is what we are talking about here.

rinse, Spin, repeat.......keep projecting, bro......maybe go google something else and come back to me with the very first thing on the list

BTW, we can take this offline if you want me to teach you something about the latest in motion sensors....sounds like you could use it

 

[neuronet]

I didn't say the data would not be useful.

Well, you implied it, and now that you man up enough to imply that you were wrong, I admit I was wrong about your inability to admit you were wrong. Galeb made a great suggestion, good to see everyone agrees.

A crash test dummy's miniature accelerometer just generated some amazing data with implications for head trauma, so I'm gonna go analyze it. No time for flame wars, sorry. I've experiments to run. There is research to be done. On the people who are still alive.

 

[Tony2046]

Perhaps it won't be too many years until that type of CTE scanning test is available.

Accurate CTE test for living patients could be coming within a decade

The league reportedly yanked the funding after the NIH rejected the NFL’s claim that Dr. Stern is biased and that his selection to run a $16 million study aimed at developing a lifetime CTE diagnosis was clouded by a conflict of interest.

My God, the NFL is really fumbling the concussion issue on all levels. They are killing the game. Instead of getting out in front of the concussion issue they are trying to hide it behind legal spin and Tobacco industry type tactics.

Who trusts them now?

 

[IllegalContact]

My God, the NFL is really fumbling the concussion issue on all levels. They are killing the game. Instead of getting out in front of the concussion issue they are trying to hide it behind legal spin and Tobacco industry type tactics.

Who trusts them now?

they're not going to damn themselves.......why should they? as long as you have major research entities throughout the NCAA doing the exact same thing, why should this fall on the NFL? To the NFL, it will be about as useful as collecting PSI data on footballs and making it public.

ya......the researchers will point us in the right direction......because they're collecting 'awesome' data

The 20 Most Profitable College Football Teams

On to the top 20 most profitable football teams in the country.
1. Texas $92 million
2. Tennessee $70 million
3. LSU $58 million
4. Michigan $56 million
5. Notre Dame $54 million
6. Georgia $50 million
6. Ohio State $50 million
8. Oklahoma $48 million
9. Auburn $47 million
10. Alabama $46 million
11. Oregon $40 million
12. Florida State $39 million
13. Arkansas $38 million
13. Washington $38 million
15. Florida $37 million
15. Texas A&M $37 million
17. Penn State $36 million
18. Michigan State $32 million
19. Southern Cal $29 million
20. South Carolina $28 million

 

[zydecochris]

Well, my vote for the stupidest is someone suggesting that the data would not be useful, even if it could be obtained. My point was that is not something a competent scientist would say on this matter, so I was not surprised to learn you were an engineer. The fact that didn't just admit you were wrong, and there is a high probability you never will, confirms you have the personality of an engineer. So, hey, at least you are in the right profession!

I don't want to be the guy that doesn't get the joke, sarcasm by overstatement, or instance of stirring the pot out of boredom. That said, do you actually believe the things you have said about engineers? Just curious.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't want to be the guy that doesn't get the joke, sarcasm by overstatement, or instance of stirring the pot out of boredom. That said, do you actually believe the things you have said about engineers? Just curious.

he doesn't know the difference....but I am sure he will respond somehow after he is done with his engineering work

 

[neuronet]

I don't want to be the guy that doesn't get the joke, sarcasm by overstatement, or instance of stirring the pot out of boredom. That said, do you actually believe the things you have said about engineers? Just curious.

I stand by the claim that science and engineering are quite different, and being qualified in one doesn't make you qualified in the other. The insults, otoh, were just me trolling illegal contact, because I do realize the great engineers are brilliant and creative within their domain. I do find it funny when engineers are rolled out as examples of "scientists" who support something like creationism. And I do find a certain personality type tends to be drawn to engineering, usually I can peg them within 30 seconds of conversation (very similar to the computer nerd personality: slightly aspy, overly literal, often giving airs of exactness even in matters that are intrinsically vague like politics or matters of taste). But there are enough exceptions to that, that I was using it more to tweak illegal contact than to say something I think is anything more than a statistically significant trend.

So, basically I'm mostly just trash talking, but the main truth that I would argue is that science and engineering are not the same (despite cross fertilization, overlap, and friendship and collaboration between the two, very (very) few individuals are good at both: the big projects that require both typically need to bring in individuals with expertise in one or the other).

 

[RobertWeathers]

they're not going to damn themselves.......why should they? as long as you have major research entities throughout the NCAA doing the exact same thing, why should this fall on the NFL? To the NFL, it will be about as useful as collecting PSI data on footballs and making it public.

ya......the researchers will point us in the right direction......because they're collecting 'awesome' data

The 20 Most Profitable College Football Teams

They'll fund the study just like the NFL.....and do nothing about it and crap all over the findings.

NCAA funds study examining the long-term effects of concussions in sports

 

[IllegalContact]

I stand by the claim that science and engineering are quite different, and being qualified in one doesn't make you qualified in the other. The insults, otoh, were just me trolling illegal contact, because I do realize the great engineers are brilliant and creative within their domain. I do find it funny when engineers are rolled out as examples of "scientists" who support something like creationism. And I do find a certain personality type tends to be drawn to engineering, usually I can peg them within 30 seconds of conversation (very similar to the computer nerd personality: slightly aspy, overly literal, often giving airs of exactness even in matters that are intrinsically vague like politics or matters of taste). But there are enough exceptions to that, that I was using it more to tweak illegal contact than to say something I think is anything more than a statistically significant trend.

So, basically I'm mostly just trash talking, but the main truth that I would argue is that science and engineering are not the same (despite cross fertilization, overlap, and friendship and collaboration between the two, very (very) few individuals are good at both: the big projects that require both typically need to bring in individuals with expertise in one or the other).

that's ok.....I knew you had no clue

 

[zydecochris]

I stand by the claim that science and engineering are quite different, and being qualified in one doesn't make you qualified in the other. The insults, otoh, were just me trolling illegal contact, because I do realize the great engineers are brilliant and creative within their domain. I do find it funny when engineers are rolled out as examples of "scientists" who support something like creationism. And I do find a certain personality type tends to be drawn to engineering, usually I can peg them within 30 seconds of conversation (very similar to the computer nerd personality: slightly aspy, overly literal, often giving airs of exactness even in matters that are intrinsically vague like politics or matters of taste). But there are enough exceptions to that, that I was using it more to tweak illegal contact than to say something I think is anything more than a statistically significant trend.

So, basically I'm mostly just trash talking, but the main truth that I would argue is that science and engineering are not the same (despite cross fertilization, overlap, and friendship and collaboration between the two, very (very) few individuals are good at both: the big projects that require both typically need to bring in individuals with expertise in one or the other).

I don’t agree with your characterization of engineers, but I try to respect other people’s opinions and you are of course entitled to yours. You have evidently had different experiences with engineers than I have.

I found your distinction between "scientists" and "engineers" curious, I don't think I can ever remember engaging in this type of conversation with my colleagues (I’m a professor at a Carnegie RU/VH state research university). Basically we refer to ourselves as all being “researchers”, and some do very pure or fundamental research, some do somewhat more applied research (I fall into this category), and some do very applied research, which I would characterize as engineering. All are researchers.

However, I am simply a poor state university faculty member in applied research in the South (and state university educated), and doubtlessly there are more numerous highfalutin pure scientists (educated at MIT, Harvard, etc.) working on the fundamental problems of the universe up there in the Boston area. Perhaps some of those pure scientists regard engineers as you have described (similar to how Sheldon Cooper does on the Big Bang Theory).

Or, perhaps I am an example of one of those “overly literal” types you were talking about, taking really good trash talk too seriously.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don’t agree with your characterization of engineers, but I try to respect other people’s opinions and you are of course entitled to yours. You have evidently had different experiences with engineers than I have.

I found your distinction between "scientists" and "engineers" curious, I don't think I can ever remember engaging in this type of conversation with my colleagues (I’m a professor at a Carnegie RU/VH state research university). Basically we refer to ourselves as all being “researchers”, and some do very pure or fundamental research, some do somewhat more applied research (I fall into this category), and some do very applied research, which I would characterize as engineering. All are researchers.

However, I am simply a poor state university faculty member in applied research in the South (and state university educated), and doubtlessly there are more numerous highfalutin pure scientists (educated at MIT, Harvard, etc.) working on the fundamental problems of the universe up there in the Boston area. Perhaps some of those pure scientists regard engineers as you have described (similar to how Sheldon Cooper does on the Big Bang Theory).

Or, perhaps I am an example of one of those “overly literal” types you were talking about, taking really good trash talk too seriously.

he got schooled, so he resorted to trolling....he said as much

just forget what he said

 

[BTTA]

Some real data (although a sample size of 1).

A year ago I reported here that my wife had a bad fall and concussion, on our driveway.
At the time, she was told that the average healing time for the brain after a medium to bad concussion is a year; longer for really bad ones.

So here we are at a year, and after a very steady healing process she's thinking, sleeping, and functioning physically normally (thankfully) except:

• Loud, shrill, or continuous noises bother her a lot, including some people's voices (not mine!).
• She's a little unsure of herself with situations that require fast decisions and multiple sensory inputs, like driving. So she's just a little slower than usual, without any decrease in capability.
• She's just a little bit less patient than she was. This is actually good because for a couple of months, she was pretty edgy.

Keep in mind that she's the CEO of a complex organization with a $$M budget and constant pressure from the public. And she's been able to do fine with that. She's just needed more time to recuperate from work than usual. We've taken a lot of 4 day weekends this year.

I think this is really instructive for the sports concussion conversation. None of these players get anything approaching a year to heal; they need to pass a functional test but nothing that truly measures the brain healing process. I get the sense that we still have a lot of reality to come to grips with before we will see this picture clearly.

 

[Mack Herron]

And the hits just keep on coming.
40% of Former NFL Players Had Brain Injuries

 

[IllegalContact]

Some real data (although a sample size of 1).

A year ago I reported here that my wife had a bad fall and concussion, on our driveway.
At the time, she was told that the average healing time for the brain after a medium to bad concussion is a year; longer for really bad ones.

So here we are at a year, and after a very steady healing process she's thinking, sleeping, and functioning physically normally (thankfully) except:

• Loud, shrill, or continuous noises bother her a lot, including some people's voices (not mine!).
• She's a little unsure of herself with situations that require fast decisions and multiple sensory inputs, like driving. So she's just a little slower than usual, without any decrease in capability.
• She's just a little bit less patient than she was. This is actually good because for a couple of months, she was pretty edgy.

Keep in mind that she's the CEO of a complex organization with a $$M budget and constant pressure from the public. And she's been able to do fine with that. She's just needed more time to recuperate from work than usual. We've taken a lot of 4 day weekends this year.

I think this is really instructive for the sports concussion conversation. None of these players get anything approaching a year to heal; they need to pass a functional test but nothing that truly measures the brain healing process. I get the sense that we still have a lot of reality to come to grips with before we will see this picture clearly.

I believe the impatience is related to being a little slower then usual since the usual is what she expected.

My son had a moderate concussion his prevalent symptoms included light sensitivity more than sound though both were an issue. His frustrations stemmed from an inability to produce the words he wanted to to express himself.....for 2 months he went to whichever classes he could make it to and did whatever homework he felt he could do. Doing homework was easy, going to class was not....being engaged in a classroom was a challenge. Baseline testing proved little progress for 2 months until one day he just said 'I think I'm good' ... and he was....

I think just as with anything physiological, youth provides better healing capacity and that the subtle effects of concussions are random

I believe I had 2 concussions as a teenager... except there was no such thing back then

 

[RobertWeathers]

Some real data (although a sample size of 1).

A year ago I reported here that my wife had a bad fall and concussion, on our driveway.
At the time, she was told that the average healing time for the brain after a medium to bad concussion is a year; longer for really bad ones.

So here we are at a year, and after a very steady healing process she's thinking, sleeping, and functioning physically normally (thankfully) except:

• Loud, shrill, or continuous noises bother her a lot, including some people's voices (not mine!).
• She's a little unsure of herself with situations that require fast decisions and multiple sensory inputs, like driving. So she's just a little slower than usual, without any decrease in capability.
• She's just a little bit less patient than she was. This is actually good because for a couple of months, she was pretty edgy.

Keep in mind that she's the CEO of a complex organization with a $$M budget and constant pressure from the public. And she's been able to do fine with that. She's just needed more time to recuperate from work than usual. We've taken a lot of 4 day weekends this year.

I think this is really instructive for the sports concussion conversation. None of these players get anything approaching a year to heal; they need to pass a functional test but nothing that truly measures the brain healing process. I get the sense that we still have a lot of reality to come to grips with before we will see this picture clearly.

About 20 years ago I was in a nasty car accident and experienced a pretty severe concussion. At the time I was playing in some fairly competitive (as opposed to the old man league I play in now) hoop leagues in Worcester and Framingham. I tried to play but my reaction time was ****. I had to take the entire year off.

If I had that same brain injury now at my age I'm certain I would be along the same lines as your wife. Recovered but still feeling the effects.

Hope she continues to get better...