Rex Ryan ~ Respect for a Worthy Adversary

[RayClay]

At best he was an average defensive coach against us.

I'd say he had some innovative defenses this year and in the playoff win. That's not a lot in the grand scheme but...

 

[lurker1965]

How does that explain 21st in points allowed and 29th in takeaways.

Blaming the GM is what a loser would do. He had 6 years to build a winner and ran it into the ground. Poor coaching has a lot more to do with it than blaming the draft.

How does that explain it? Seriously? No, I seriously think I missed sarcasm of wondering how bad players might affect bad play.

How?
The players sucked.
You need details. Some were too stupid to understand how to work around their talent deficiency, some were apathetic about the lack of ability to perform, and another group does not believe they lack talent. To make matters worse, these groups overlap.

 

[everlong]

So your argument is that he isn't supposed to win? 28 points a game allowed is good? Why does being favored mean anything? A good coach coaches his team to win and be favored.
Judge Rex by his accomplishments. He is not good. I have never considered anyone good at something when they do poorly but people make excuses.
Please list all of the great things that he has done to show that he is a good coach.

You should try the political forum. Your ability to see no gray area and trying to put words in people's mouths is uncanny. I'll go back to ignoring threads you're posting in because there's zero upside.

 

[everlong]

I hate to bring back this old chestnut, Everlong, but BB won 11 NFL games with Matt Cassell at the helm at a time when he hadn't started ANY kind of football game since HS. You see people aren't saying Rex is a BAD coach, just not a good one for the job description of head NFL football coach.

Actually that's exactly what Andy is saying. That he's not even a good DC. I'm saying Rex is a good DC and could be successful the same way Sean Payton is if he has a good coordinator to make up for his inadequacies on the other side of the ball. I don't want to get into 08 again but if they weren't playing that schedule no way they win 11. They beat all the weak teams.

To be a good coach, you not only have to win an occasional big game, you have to win consistently, over the years. Did you forget that after the 2010 loss, BB threw something line 3 or 4 straight 30 burgers on him. Rex has had a LOT of those kinds of games as well.vs other teams

Again look at that roster. When he had a team he made two straight AFCCGs.

If all you needed to be a HC was to be liked and draw up an OCCASIONALLY brilliant game plan, then Rex would still have a job. But unfortunately for him the job requires a myriad of skills that Rex either doesn't have or doesn't feel that they are important enough to improve at. Among them being unimportant things like, sideline management, knowing what's going on in your locker room, personnel acquisition, roster building, player development, and accountability.

He has his flaws there's no doubt and I've never said otherwise. I think he's in that second tier however. Not every team can have a BB. Would you rather have Rex or Marvin Lewis for instance? I think Rex would get more out of the Bengals.

Kudo's for Rex for those 2 AFCCG's, but lets not forget he had teams good enough to have won at least one of them.....and didn't. Aside from that he was more than a little lucky in that first year. But that's OK, so was BB in 2001. The HUGE difference is BB continued to elevate his game and sustain a level of excellence far beyond his peers, while Rex found his level, and that level is less than mediocre on so many levels.

Again I'm not comparing him to BB. Everybody else is. However even Bill doesn't win without the Jimmy's and the Joe's.

 

[Ring 6]

You should try the political forum. Your ability to see no gray area and trying to put words in people's mouths is uncanny. I'll go back to ignoring threads you're posting in because there's zero upside.

As opposed to answering my question and listing the things that back up he is good?
All you have given is excuses and explained how he doesn't have to succeed to be good on your scale. I simply disagree.
Feel free to read, ignore, respond, or don't.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Sorry Grid. I can't do it. I have publicly given Rex all the credit in the world for being a good defensive planner, and maintaining the loyalty of his team. However its ALL the other skills that are mandatory for a HC that he is lacking that keep me from giving him any respect.

To my mind the MYTH of Rex Ryan casts a far bigger shadow than the reality. No question in my mind that he is a HOF self promoter. He might give the best press conferences since that other over rated blow hard, Bill Parcells. So to a certain degree Ryan could be called a media creation, and we see it playing out in the media since his firing.

His sycophants all want us to forget the last four years and continually blame all the Jets problems on his owner, GM's, and players. Four years of mediocrity and NONE of it was because of Rex Ryan. Teflon Rex is a a nickname he definitely has earned.

What's amazing to me that if you break down all the skilsl you'd like to see in a HC. Skills we see every day in our own. It remarkable how few he actually has and still be considered the hottest HC'ing prospect around Here are a list of just some problems he's CONSISTENTLY had

1. Game management - 6 years later and the Jets are STILL a hot mess on the sidelines on game day.

2. Personnel - The overall personnel of the Jets has dramatically deteriorated since he been HC. And don't give me that crap that he's had no power. Its amazing to me he's gotten a pass on this. After the 2nd AFCCG (and the Jets one really good team) Rex was the most powerful man in NY sports. No question he'd have a HUGE say in who is populating HIS team.......and it was after THAT year that the Jets roster started to go down hill

3. Awareness of your lockerroom - out of the man's own mouth. He had no idea what was going on in his locker room

4. Developing you coaching staff - Who among his coaching staff hasn't he thrown under the bus. The 2 best coaches from the "rex tree" where guys who ran screaming from the organization to get away from him (Pettine and Shottenheimer). With the Jets they were nothing more than scapegoats. Both leave NJ and a few years later, Pettine is a HC doing a decent job, and Shotty is a OC getting looks

5. Developing the players - coaching them up. Its hard to name a player on the Jets who they developed into a better player than when they came to them. Sure they have a lot of talented players, but who among them can you say is better that what they brought to the table on their own. Who have they "coached up". Mo Wilerson is about the only one I can think of who came into the league as a good player, and elevated his game into something beyond that. Just think back to the JAG who spent a couple of weeks with the Jets trying to find someone who would coach him. I'm afraid there is a lot more truth that hyperbole than Rex would like us to believe.

6. Creating an institutional message - Well if it was its ok to be an Ahole, then he succeeded. But if it was "do your job" or "ignore the noise"....not so much

So in summary, if you want a HC who will sell tickets and optimism based on personality and charisma on a short term basis, then Rex is you man. If you want to BUILD a team and organization that has a chance of long term success you are going to be VERY disappointed with Rex Ryan.

To Jet fans and many others as well, the epitome of Coaching ineptitude is Rich Kotite. Few remember that Kottite was a fairly successful NFL HC with the Eagles (something like 35-26) before coming to the Jets, where I think he won something like 4 games in 2 years, and cemented his legacy. I can easily see Rex coming to a similar fate where his 2nd bite at the apple won't be as successful as the first.....and the first was none too successful to begin with.

But I guess that's just my opinion, Grid. BTW good call on Rex's 3-2 start. You nailed it. A lot of us thought the same thing, but you put down in "print" You have given me the courage to make my prediction for Rex's future. If he's smart he'd go to TV. He's talented and you don't have to be that detail oriented, make other accountable, and lead an entire organization.

Thank you. Well put.

Basically Wrecks Ryan (credit Tunescribe with that ageless nickname?) is consistently 16-0 in "woulda, shoulda, coulda" wins. In fact one of his playoff appearances only happened because what should have been an 8-8 team was fortunate enough to play the Colts when they were too scared to go for 16-0 themselves and pulled all starters to lose and take the pressure off of them.

I'm a football fan first and foremost - even more so than a Patriots fan - and as much as I like watching the Three Stooges, I don't want to see one of them coaching in the NFL any more than I want the coach of the Washington Generals in the NBA.

Any coach who would ruin a kid who had the potential to be a decent NFL QB (Sanchez) by guaranteeing he'd win a Super Bowl (and then did it again when Sanchez crumbled under the pressure) not to mention his long list of other broken promises and guarantees, doesn't deserve a rarefied position as one of the NFL's Head Coaches.

The man has no respect for the game of football - he's only in it for his ego and self-promotion.

I don't doubt BB has respect for Ryan's defensive coordinator skills (the stats show him mediocre there too but he always put good pressure on Brady), but I have to think that he has ZERO respect for Wreck's ability to manage a team and organization.

Belichick has some reverence for the game of football and Rex Ryan has made a laughingstock of himself and to a certain degree, the position of head coach in the NFL. Good riddance.

Let Wrecks accept the agony of de-feet!

 

[Ring 6]

How does that explain it? Seriously? No, I seriously think I missed sarcasm of wondering how bad players might affect bad play.

How?
The players sucked.
You need details. Some were too stupid to understand how to work around their talent deficiency, some were apathetic about the lack of ability to perform, and another group does not believe they lack talent. To make matters worse, these groups overlap.

That is an excuse.
By that yardstick no coach was ever bad the players just sucked.

Shouldn't he have to have some kind of sustained success even if it were only on defense to be considered good?
He never had.

Can I argue Mark trestman proved to everyone he was a great coach because he failed but it was with bad players?

 

[Ring 6]

I'd say he had some innovative defenses this year and in the playoff win. That's not a lot in the grand scheme but...

His ego is enormous. His results gave been worse than average. That's not even debatable.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually that's exactly what Andy is saying. That he's not even a good DC. I'm saying Rex is a good DC and could be successful the same way Sean Payton is if he has a good coordinator to make up for his inadequacies on the other side of the ball. I don't want to get into 08 again but if they weren't playing that schedule no way they win 11. They beat all the weak teams. [\quote]
Sean Payton is a great example on my side. Payton had always had good offenses. He inherited terrible talent and had turned it into success especially if you limit it to offense like you are trying to do. Ryan inherited talent and his team and defense consistently declined over time even using high picks successfully on defenders.

He has his flaws there's no doubt and I've never said otherwise. I think he's in that second tier however. Not every team can have a BB. Would you rather have Rex or Marvin Lewis for instance? I think Rex would get more out of the Bengals.
.

Why? He didn't get anything out of the jets.
Lewis is making the playoffs with Andy dalton.

 

[JoeSixPat]

His ego is enormous. His results gave been worse than average. That's not even debatable.

Agreed. He is no longer a division rival. It's doubtful that should he get a head coaching job, he'd not even be in the AFC

And as much as he makes the teams he coaches weaker, and as much as he provides comic relief, I STILL don't want him in the NFL as a head coach

I want to see a strong NFL lead by strong NFL coaches. I don't want to see this guy in any position of leadership where he can continue to weaken the NFL.

I don't even feel that way about Mangini (as at this point I blame Goodell (and the Herald), rather than Mangini, for the circus of misinformation related to Spygate)

In Wreck's case I hope he stays far, far away from any position of leadership or player development lest he do more harm to the NFL than he already has.

 

[RayClay]

Thank you. Well put.

Basically Wrecks Ryan (credit Tunescribe with that ageless nickname?) is consistently 16-0 in "woulda, shoulda, coulda" wins. In fact one of his playoff appearances only happened because what should have been an 8-8 team was fortunate enough to play the Colts when they were too scared to go for 16-0 themselves and pulled all starters to lose and take the pressure off of them.

I'm a football fan first and foremost - even more so than a Patriots fan - and as much as I like watching the Three Stooges, I don't want to see one of them coaching in the NFL any more than I want the coach of the Washington Generals in the NBA.

Any coach who would ruin a kid who had the potential to be a decent NFL QB (Sanchez) by guaranteeing he'd win a Super Bowl (and then did it again when Sanchez crumbled under the pressure) not to mention his long list of other broken promises and guarantees, doesn't deserve a rarefied position as one of the NFL's Head Coaches.

The man has no respect for the game of football - he's only in it for his ego and self-promotion.

I don't doubt BB has respect for Ryan's defensive coordinator skills (the stats show him mediocre there too but he always put good pressure on Brady), but I have to think that he has ZERO respect for Wreck's ability to manage a team and organization.

Belichick has some reverence for the game of football and Rex Ryan has made a laughingstock of himself and to a certain degree, the position of head coach in the NFL. Good riddance.

Let Wrecks accept the agony of de-feet!

Moe would be good.

 

[terabthia2]

Rex grew on me in the final few seasons.

Thank goodness you're still around to talk about it. You could have been asphyxiated by now.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

For what it's worth I think Rex did a great job, considering he may have not had enough input on the groceries as he would have liked.

I wish him success, and will continue to cheer against him should he be facing us down the road...

 

[everlong]

As opposed to answering my question and listing the things that back up he is good?
All you have given is excuses and explained how he doesn't have to succeed to be good on your scale. I simply disagree.
Feel free to read, ignore, respond, or don't.

I did list reasons, things he does well, things he doesn't. It's all or nothing for you and because he's not BB he must therefore suck. BB gets credit for an 11-5 season, rightfully so, in 2008 where they won 5 less games and played a bad schedule but Rex gets nothing for getting that crap team to 8-8 last year.

If you're not BB you must be Rich Kotite.

 

[TruthSeeker]

For what it's worth I think Rex did a great job, considering he may have not had enough input on the groceries as he would have liked.

I agree with PatsFanKen and many others who think Rex's obvious lack of head coaching skills in important areas seems to be totally ignored by many. These areas have already been pointed out but clearly need to be repeated (but, then again, it could well be that no one is interesting in really reconsidering their opinion about Rex):

• Poor game management skills
• Constant bluster without the ability to perform. At first, this seems to be likeable. However, it does wear off and then is just annoying. (Personally, I didn't like it from the start.)
  
• Inability to coach players up (so that they have significant improvement). Shouldn't this be one of the main requirements of a coach?
• Seems to be almost unaware of the offensive side of the ball. I don't know of any coach who is as 1-sided as Rex (but that just may be me). At any rate, this is a definite detriment not only for a head coach but also for a defensive coordinator.
• Doesn't have a clue as to how to manage a locker room. Naming a self-absorbed player as a captain? Encourage bluster at the expense of performance?
• Totally mismanaged the most important person on the team (Sanchez).

In fact, what skills does Rex bring to the head coach position that people can point to as an important skill? I'll grant you that he had some good defensive game plans at times. That's more of a defensive coordinator skill, but the head coach has some responsibility in this area and gets credit for it as well. I will give him credit for getting his players to consistently give forth a good effort even in bad circumstances. Not all coaches succeed at that. He's friendly with the media (if that means much of anything).

What it comes down to is Rex lacks many fundamental head coaching skills. And then his teams have gotten worse (never better) over his tenure.

Rex Ryan is who he is. I haven't seen his head coaching skills improve significantly over the last 6 years; shame on us if we think that will change if he gets another head coaching opportunity.

 

[Off The Grid]

Is Ryan an excellent Head Coach? No.

Is he an awful Head Coach? No.

Most folks seem to lack the Capacity, though, to recognize that the Answers to such questions as "How was Rex Ryan as a Coach?" are almost always mixed. Even our own Coach Bill The Mad (Genius) is imperfect.

To call Ryan a "Loser" is pathetic. He seems, based on Years of Quotes, to combine a deep, passionate, and genuine Love of Competition with a rare and equally genuine Respect for his Foes. Me, I love the guy.

01 ~ He took a mediocre Team and immediately catapulted them to back to back Final Four Finishes.

02 ~ He took a mediocre Defense and immediately transformed it into the most feared Defense in the World.

03 ~ And then he made a load of Dumb @$$ Mistakes and helped drive his Team back to Mediocrity.

I, for one, look forward to seeing what he accomplishes next time around ~ preferably in the NFC.

 

[Ring 6]

I did list reasons, things he does well, things he doesn't. It's all or nothing for you and because he's not BB he must therefore suck. BB gets credit for an 11-5 season, rightfully so, in 2008 where they won 5 less games and played a bad schedule but Rex gets nothing for getting that crap team to 8-8 last year.

If you're not BB you must be Rich Kotite.

What are you talking about? First the only reasons you listed was that he did poorly but the players were bad so he shouldn't be expected to do well.
Where am I comparing him to bb? I only brought up his failures vs us because you did.
I didn't say he was the worst coach ever. I said he has been a bad coach. His track record supports that.
Your assumption that his players were bad is not a fact. It's your opinion and simply an excuse for his failure.

 

[Off The Grid]

BTW good call on Rex's 3-2 start. You nailed it.

3-2 Before my Call and 0-8 after it?? Say, you're right!! Woot!!

Ahhhh...The Timeless Wisdom of Off The Grid!!

 

[everlong]

I didn't say he was the worst coach ever. I said he has been a bad coach. His track record supports that.
Your assumption that his players were bad is not a fact. It's your opinion and simply an excuse for his failure.

You've said he's a bad DC never mind a bad coach. I've said he's a very good DC and an average coach. I think he's a Sean Payton, who's very overrated in mind, in that he needs a coordinator on the other side to run things for him. He'll never fix an offense. He'll never be a team builder.

Here's a list of coaches from last season. The top section clearly better than Rex. The second section is probably better but the all overrated team IMO with O'Brien thrown in there because I think he'll be good once he gets his QB situation worked out. I also put Ariens in there because he looks to be rising given Arizona and Indy. The bottom list I would take Rex over. You can debate a few of the names in all the levels but I think it mostly stands. If we did DCs which you feel he's even awful at that I'd put him in that elite level.

Belichick, Kelly, Harbaugh, Harbaugh, McCarthy, Coughlin, Carol,

Tomlin, Payton, Fox, O'Brien, Reid, Fisher, Ariens

Mike Smith, Lovie Smith, Caldwell, Marrone, Rivera, Lewis, Pettine, Garrett, Bradley, Philbin, Pagano, Weisenhunt, Zimmer, Gruden. McCoy, Sparano

 

[Off The Grid]

You've said he's a bad DC never mind a bad coach. I've said he's a very good DC and an average coach. I think he's a Sean Payton, who's very overrated in mind, in that he needs a coordinator on the other side to run things for him. He'll never fix an offense. He'll never be a team builder.

Here's a list of coaches from last season. The top section clearly better than Rex. The second section is probably better but the all overrated team IMO with O'Brien thrown in there because I think he'll be good once he gets his QB situation worked out. I also put Ariens in there because he looks to be rising given Arizona and Indy. The bottom list I would take Rex over. You can debate a few of the names in all the levels but I think it mostly stands. If we did DCs which you feel he's even awful at that I'd put him in that elite level.

Belichick, Kelly, Harbaugh, Harbaugh, McCarthy, Coughlin, Carol,

Tomlin, Payton, Fox, O'Brien, Reid, Fisher, Ariens

Mike Smith, Lovie Smith, Caldwell, Marrone, Rivera, Lewis, Pettine, Garrett, Bradley, Philbin, Pagano, Weisenhunt, Zimmer, Gruden. McCoy, Sparano

Perfect.