Randall Gay to visit Jets

[The 12th Man]

They moved him to fs because we had Antwan Harris there

They thought Harris was a better CB than Wilson?

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

They thought Harris was a better CB than Wilson?

He meant we had Harris at FS after Milloy was released and Harris sucked.

 

[The 12th Man]

He meant we had Harris at FS after Milloy was released and Harris sucked.

Well, Eugene was a FS for a few years now and if they wanted to, they could have easily got another FS and put him back to CB. They didn't because Eugene is best suited for FS than CB. He CAN play corner too, but not his strength.

 

[captain stone]

He meant we had Harris at FS after Milloy was released and Harris sucked.

"Pudding" was the starting FS for the 0-31 Opening Day loss at Buffalo.
Wilson was installed at FS for the very next game at Philly.

 

[fillylabinga]

First, props to BB for putting the $1.3M tender on Gay. He may make the occasional misstep (e.g. Branch, Samuel), but more often then not he shows he has a great sense of a players value on the open market.

Next, we would LOVE to get that 2nd round pick from the Jets. Put me in the camp of people who is worried that we overpaid for Welker. Having that 2nd gives us a lot of flexibility on draft day--like trading up to the middle of the 1st to get a Willis or Nelson is they are available.

 

[psychoPat]

.... If we trade Asante and lose Gay, we are in big trouble unless we trade for someone that can start. I'm not too high on a rookie(s) starting, even if it's Revis.

For 3 consecutive seasons
with devastating injuries in the secondary,
by using street FAs and other non-descript DBs
... BB has proven beyond argument that
the scheme ... plus strength up front ... makes a secondary
and that almost anyone (not named Starks) can do the little he requires of them there.

 

[fgssand]

The popular view in here is that Gay basically sucks and cannot stay healthy.

Yes, he has had two years of injury - however, I do not agree that he sucks. His play in 2004 impressed me a lot and that was his first time getting serious playing time.

Why would they have tendered him at 1.3MM and why would the Jets be talking to him, if he were as bad as you all think??

Best case scenario for NE is a healthy Randall Gay, playing right here....he is a good CB.

 

[spacecrime]

I disagree. Wilson is not that good of a CB (hence BB moved him to FS where he's better).

Are you a recent fan? Because that is not what happened.

When Milloy was cut, Antwan Harris played one game at safety and was horrible. There was no one else and BB put Wilson in for the second game. It worked out so well, Wilson stayed there.

He was not moved because he was bad at CB or better at FS. He had never played FS before, and the early games he mostly played "centerfield" while Rodney played closer to the LOS.

 

[spacecrime]

He may make the occasional misstep (e.g. Branch, Samuel),

What misstep did he make with Samuel? Franchising him? Should he have let Samuel walk? Or is this one of those "BB should have signed Branch/Samuel/everyone else for whatever they demand" kind of things?

 

[cstjohn17]

Best case scenario for NE is a healthy Randall Gay, playing right here....he is a good CB.

Not really, a 2nd round pick under contract control for cheap money is better for the Pats. Gay is a nice player but nothing special.

Should the Patriots be afraid if the Jets line-up Hank Poteat and Randall Gay as their corners?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Hope he signs with the dumb jests. A 2nd round pick would be sweet!

 

[fillylabinga]

What misstep did he make with Samuel? Franchising him? Should he have let Samuel walk? Or is this one of those "BB should have signed Branch/Samuel/everyone else for whatever they demand" kind of things?

I more meant by not signing Samuel to a long term deal before the season. But to be fair, BB probably couldn't have expected Samuel to have the kind of breakout season he had--I think he got surprised more by his performance than his market value.

Branch is a better example. I don't think BB expected anyone to give up a 1st round pick in addition to that kind of contract for him. The fact that he let Branch look for trades suggests that was the case.

 

[Ring 6]

I more meant by not signing Samuel to a long term deal before the season. But to be fair, BB probably couldn't have expected Samuel to have the kind of breakout season he had--I think he got surprised more by his performance than his market value.

Branch is a better example. I don't think BB expected anyone to give up a 1st round pick in addition to that kind of contract for him. The fact that he let Branch look for trades suggests that was the case.

How would it be a misstep if BB didnt think he would get a #1, then did?
I think he handled the Branch situation very well. He offered Branch fair value, Branch declined, and he got fair value in a trade.

Its hard to play both sides of the fence on Samuel. If you say he had only one good year, and are one of those making the (IMO ridiculous) claim that he was a nickelback forced into a starting job (I guess we forced it 3 years) then how could you say BB not signing him to a long term deal prior to 2006 was a misstep?

I think sometimes as fans we expect all of contract issues that the other 31 teams deal with to not exist here. Then when anything imperfect happens, we treat it as if the player is a jerk or the franchise screwed up. It happens to every team. It probably happens more to us, because we have an excellent track record in the draft.
How many other teams are facing top dollar contracts with the first 4 years of 2nd round WRs and 4th round corners? Not to mention the ones that have already been extended (2nd round LT, 5th round C) or those that were not, 7th round WR.

I would bet if you looked at the first 4 years of BBs drafts (the ones that have aged appropriately) the players he picked have combined contracts today that are the highest of any team (you would probably need to discount teams that took QBs high, or had multiple top 5 picks, but if you only look at the 2nd contract, I bet BBs draft picks ultimately make more in the 2nd contract than anyone elses, because of the quality of his drafts).

When you have fit the best team in the NFL over th elast 6 years under the salary cap, when those contracts expire it is impossible to fit them all under the cap.

This would be an interesting exercise, if anyone had the time and ability to do it: Take the 2003 (or 2004) Championship roster, and add up the current cap numbers of those 53 players (throw in a vet at the min for anyone no longer in the league) and how much would the Pats be over the cap if they kept them all. I'd bet it would be a ton.

 

[italia44]

We'll never get a 2nd for RG.........The 2nd round tender is a negotiating tool by BB.....similar to the Tebucky Jones RFA deal with New Orleans a couple of years ago.

I'd say BB would take a 3-5 pick for Gay.

However,I like Gay as a CB,I thought his performance in SB39 against TO was heroic.

I don't care if he has been injured for 2 years...
he was an UFA,when we signed him for short money.

You have to look at it as if he's only a rookie at 25 yrs old......past injuries are semi-irrelevant,unless they are congenital.Injuries are more age-related in
sports.

The term "injury-prone" for someone 25 yrs old like Gay or CJ at 21 is meaningless to Football coaches and GM's.

It's become an urban myth for the fans.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you take the 2nd, but do not trade him for less.

My primary consideration in personell moves right now is winning SB XLII.
I think we have enough talent that any other goal would be setting the bar too low.
Sure, in the long run a 3rd or 4th rounder may well end up being a better player than Gay, but in the present, he is important.

I agree his injury history is as likely bad luck as a builit in problem.
I have to believe Samuel is here this year, even if its a contentious reporting under the tag. (I dont see a trade and I dont see a holdout)
With Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Scott and perhaps a rookie added I think the secondary is in good shape.
If you eliminate Gay, we are 1 injury away from a lack of depth, and if Samuel does go, we already will have depth issues.
I think Gay can be an important part of the 2007 Pats, and what happens after that is to be decided then.
A second rounder just seems to have too much value that we wouldn't take it and find depth elsewhere, but less than that, IMO, isnt worth the potential of degrading the depth.

 

[The 12th Man]

Are you a recent fan? Because that is not what happened.

When Milloy was cut, Antwan Harris played one game at safety and was horrible. There was no one else and BB put Wilson in for the second game. It worked out so well, Wilson stayed there.

He was not moved because he was bad at CB or better at FS. He had never played FS before, and the early games he mostly played "centerfield" while Rodney played closer to the LOS.

I've been a fan since I first started watching and understanding the game of football back in 93-94 (I'm only 24 now). Anyway, I know that Eugene was MOVED to safety, but they STUCK with him at FS throughout the years and have YET to move him back. IF they thought he was better at CB, he would have been back to his "natural" position as soon as they got a replacement, say the following year. Thing is, he did such a good job at FS that BB decided to keep him at that position for the BEST of the TEAM OUTCOME.

 

[PATSNUTme]

There is NO negotiation. If the Jest sign him to an offer sheet then the Patriots either match or get their 2nd rounder. It's just that simple.

Tebucky was a different thing. He was franchised and the Saints came knocking on our door. I really don't think that BB wanted to keep him anyway.

If anyone thinks that the Patriots are going to let the Jest get Gay for anythng less than the 2nd roounder, they are mistaken.

 

[italia44]

There is NO negotiation. If the Jest sign him to an offer sheet then the Patriots either match or get their 2nd rounder. It's just that simple.

Tebucky was a different thing. He was franchised and the Saints came knocking on our door. I really don't think that BB wanted to keep him anyway.

If anyone thinks that the Patriots are going to let the Jest get Gay for anythng less than the 2nd roounder, they are mistaken.

off course there's negotiation:

Gay to BB:"The Jets want to sign me for a 3rd RD
draft choice"

BB to Gay:"No"

BB to Gay:"Yes"

 

[carolinatony]

There is NO negotiation. If the Jest sign him to an offer sheet then the Patriots either match or get their 2nd rounder. It's just that simple.


I heard this on TV as well.
Of course, BB has the last word.

 

[Ring 6]

There is NO negotiation. If the Jest sign him to an offer sheet then the Patriots either match or get their 2nd rounder. It's just that simple.


I heard this on TV as well.
Of course, BB has the last word.

Not necessarily though.
The Jets may agree on a contract but be unwilling to give up a 2nd. They could offer the Pats a 3rd in a trade. The Pats could then decide if a 3rd is enough compensation. Happens all the time.