Mini Mortgage the Future

[manxman2601]

When did "down" for something replace being up for something?

1960's

 

[Brady6]

I think it the Pats bring back Talib and sign Revis, then fill in the rest of the needs they become immediate SB favorites.

The pass rush immediately becomes better. Arrington/dennard/ryan become nickel and dime options, and we can play a defense that locks down the other teams top WRs and we can put McCourty man on man with any receiving TE.

We become a dominant D, and Brady even without new weapons with win with that.



So, the scenario is something like this.

Trade for Revis. Immediately guarantee 10 mill of his salary to cut his cap # to 8 mill. Guarantee 8 more next year for a 10 mill cap #, with 14 mill unamortized pushed into 2016.

Talib 5/50 with a 15 mill sb

Cap hits are 5,7,13,13,13



Both are managable cap #s the next 2 years at a conbined 13 and 17 mill.



In 2016, assuming no other alternative arises (such as bloating of the cap making their numbers reasonable) cut them both, eat 23 mill in one shot and accept 2016 is the cost of going for it in 2014 and 2015 and take a one year it to retool.



Thoughts?

The concern that I would have would mortgaging the future and they both suffer injuries and you have so much tied up in them it's hard to do anything.

That aside I would still be all for it. I personally view 2014 as the year it has to happen for Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

too me this is an either Talib or Revis proposition because my guess Wilfork stays and Edelman re-signs

I'm wasn't talking about whether you think it will happen but whether you would want it to.

 

[patfanken]

I'm all for paying Talib top dollar. Just as long as the contract is structured so he won't get his money unless he's on the field. ie $40MM for 4 years with $15MM guaranteed, $10MM of which comes as a signing bonus. He gets the rest of the $35MM on snap driven incentives.

Revis is very interesting as long as you don't have to trade for him. When he's cut, his onerous contract goes with him. THEN you can sign him to a $10MM/yr contract that is more reasonable.

I think Andy's Idea to go for it for a 2 year window makes sense, as it looks like the next 2 years are likely to be the last we can expect Brady to be an elite QB. I'd almost look forward to a down year just so I'd know what it feels like to have a top 10 draft pick in every round.

But here's a thought. Taking Andy's idea, but to a different usage of the money. Let Talib walk. (sorry the injury issue is starting to make me think twice about him.)
and use Talib's money to sign. Browner, Cook (for CB/SS size Both at a low cost), add Woodyard (LB depth and speed, Jared Allen (for a true 3 man rotation at DE). I think that will make the defense better than "just" Talib and Revis.

Then use whatever Draft resources you have to acquire a top rookie DT and TE, and we will have had an outstanding off season that

 

[Ring 6]

If you're restructuring $10M into a signing bonus in 2014 and $8M into a signing bonus in 2015, then he has a $20M cap hit in 2016 with $12M in dead money if you cut him. Brady is still your QB at that point, and you're going through free agency either with $20M allocated to one guy or $12M allocated to one guy who isn't on the team. It's borrowing cap from Brady in 2016 to use in 2014. You might as well just tell Brady to retire after 2015 if you've decided that surrounding him with top talent now is worth handicapping his surroundings in 2016.

Well there is certainly the chance of the cap increasing to make that hit less blatant, but why couldn't the team deal with a 12 mill dead money hit? Essentially you let Revis walk, don't replace him (he counted 10 mill in 2015) and move forward, or you push it another year and keep him for 12-14 mill.

I'm saying I'd sacrifice being tight on the cap in 3-4 years in order to win now. This is not cap hell, its one (perhaps even 2) big dead money hits applied ot just one season.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm all for paying Talib top dollar. Just as long as the contract is structured so he won't get his money unless he's on the field. ie $40MM for 4 years with $15MM guaranteed, $10MM of which comes as a signing bonus. He gets the rest of the $35MM on snap driven incentives.

Thats not the way the NFL generally works. The player has to guard against injury. Your plan suggests he just doesn't feel like playing sometimes so you will incent him to do so.

Revis is very interesting as long as you don't have to trade for him. When he's cut, his onerous contract goes with him. THEN you can sign him to a $10MM/yr contract that is more reasonable.

The contract he has may be better than the one you can sign him for.
You get a straight salary deal, that is essentially a series of one year deals.

I think Andy's Idea to go for it for a 2 year window makes sense, as it looks like the next 2 years are likely to be the last we can expect Brady to be an elite QB. I'd almost look forward to a down year just so I'd know what it feels like to have a top 10 draft pick in every round.

Cant endorse that last part.

But here's a thought. Taking Andy's idea, but to a different usage of the money. Let Talib walk. (sorry the injury issue is starting to make me think twice about him.)
and use Talib's money to sign. Browner, Cook (for CB/SS size Both at a low cost), add Woodyard (LB depth and speed, Jared Allen (for a true 3 man rotation at DE). I think that will make the defense better than "just" Talib and Revis.

Shut down corners make the defense special. Those moves just hope to incrementally improve somewhat.

 

[Ring 6]

The concern that I would have would mortgaging the future and they both suffer injuries and you have so much tied up in them it's hard to do anything.

That aside I would still be all for it. I personally view 2014 as the year it has to happen for Brady.

To be clear, I am talking about mortgaging ONE YEAR OF THE FUTURE.
It would be one season of heavy dead money in order to go for a special 2-3 seasons. The year after the hits are absorbed the long term plan continues.

 

[Brady6]

To be clear, I am talking about mortgaging ONE YEAR OF THE FUTURE.

It would be one season of heavy dead money in order to go for a special 2-3 seasons. The year after the hits are absorbed the long term plan continues.

Like I said I would do it. I think that when a team has been right there for so many years you either blow it up and rebuild it or you do something to push it over the top. This would push them over the top.

 

[RIpats88]

considering Talib has not received one offer from a team yet chances are we could get him for cheap and this could work.

 

[tmajr3]

So this will work without cutting Wilfork?

 

[Joker]

the 3rd youngest team in the league and "I think you blow it up"...just wow

THAT is not now nor EVER been an option...except on Planet Moron

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let's not forget that Dennard is pretty darn good as a #2 corner. Why do we need two great cornerbacks taking up 25% of the payroll when half the time one of them is covering an average receiver?

My prediction: the Pats will miss out on Talib and then throw a ton of money at Revis. I've been saying for three years that Revis will end up here, and I especially thought so when he signed that insanely dumb contract with the Bucs. Think of the Jets as the pre-2004 Boston Red Sox. Was there any doubt that eventually Wade Boggs or Roger Clemens would eventually wind in pinstripes?

 

[PatsFan2]

I like the idea Two good/great CB's take alot of pressure off the pass rush too they go hand and hand. I remember the Ty Law and Tyrone Poole CB combo for the Patriots we won a SB that year many moons ago now. Until BB fields a Defense with two legit CB's I think we are always going to be lacking in that area.

 

[everlong]

Let's not forget that Dennard is pretty darn good as a #2 corner. Why do we need two great cornerbacks taking up 25% of the payroll when half the time one of them is covering an average receiver?

Which is why I'd rather go for Byrd if they're going that route. Dennard, McCourtey, Byrd and Talib would cost less then putting Revis in there and it's more solid. If you sign Revis you still need a safety.

 

[PatsFan2]

Let's not forget that Dennard is pretty darn good as a #2 corner. Why do we need two great cornerbacks taking up 25% of the payroll when half the time one of them is covering an average receiver?

My prediction: the Pats will miss out on Talib and then throw a ton of money at Revis. I've been saying for three years that Revis will end up here, and I especially thought so when he signed that insanely dumb contract with the Bucs. Think of the Jets as the pre-2004 Boston Red Sox. Was there any doubt that eventually Wade Boggs or Roger Clemens would eventually wind in pinstripes?

Denver exposed Dennard in the playoffs he not a legit #2 he's closer to slot CB. He would be an immediate upgrade over Arrington!

 

[Gronkandez]

Let's not forget that Dennard is pretty darn good as a #2 corner. Why do we need two great cornerbacks taking up 25% of the payroll when half the time one of them is covering an average receiver?

My prediction: the Pats will miss out on Talib and then throw a ton of money at Revis. I've been saying for three years that Revis will end up here, and I especially thought so when he signed that insanely dumb contract with the Bucs. Think of the Jets as the pre-2004 Boston Red Sox. Was there any doubt that eventually Wade Boggs or Roger Clemens would eventually wind in pinstripes?

meh..He got abused all over the field in the AFC championship game. Granted he won't be covering the #1 options more often than not but to see him get abused like that doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[shmessy]

When did "down" for something replace being up for something?

When Vegas opened.

 

[shmessy]

I like the idea Two good/great CB's take alot of pressure off the pass rush too they go hand and hand. I remember the Ty Law and Tyrone Poole CB combo for the Patriots we won a SB that year many moons ago now. Until BB fields a Defense with two legit CB's I think we are always going to be lacking in that area.

Actually, they won 2 SB's with Law and Poole on the roster.

The first with them playing throughout the playoffs and SB.

The second with both of them watching the playoffs and SB from the sofa, while Hank Poteat, Randall Gay and Earthwind Moreland played in their stead.

The big thing is to get INTO the playoffs. Then the chips fall where they may.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

So this will work without cutting Wilfork?

Wilforks deal needs to go away or change..and it's going too. Will save us lots of $$

 

[Huckleberry1]

This scenario isn't going to happen (Talib/Revis) but overall Ilike the idea of being really aggressive and going after really good veteran players to fill out this roster. I think the market has shifted heavily to big deals for young players over the past few offseasons and i think that there is really good value to be found with veterans around the age of 30 and older. Rather than pay Revis they could use that money to sign Julius Peppers, Wesley Woodard, and Darren Sproles, and still have some left over for other moves. I would love to see them fill out their roster this way during the free agent period and then pick up a first rate TE prospect and interior lineman in the draft, ASJ/Westburg or a similar scenario.

The Patriots have many needs but are also in good cap shape with more room available, and they have the resume' to draw in veteran players who have made the big money and want the ring, however they will likely have to battle the Bronco's for a number of these guys, and elway can be excessive when he wants someone.