Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amendola?

[mgteich]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

$4.8M IS NOT, IS NOT Amendola's salary. It is the remaining cap hit on Amendola's 2013 bonus. It cannot be paid to Edelman. It cannot be paid to Amendola. It is GONE.

The OPEN question is whether it worth $3.5M or so to secure Amendola's 2014 services, knowing that we can have his 2015 service at $4.5M if he does well.

The cap hit on the bonus is $1.2M this year, and $3.6M in future years, whether we cut Amendola or not (presuming that he is cut before March 11 and designated a June 2 cut). There is NO cap effect of a cut with respect to this bonus monies.

The only cap effect concerns Amendola's 2014 compensation ($3.375 plus game bonuses, $3.625M if he plays in half the games).

IS AMENDOLA WORTH $3.625M? THAT IS THE QUESTION

For me, the Edelman discussion is somewhat a diversion for now. The first question is about Amendola. If Amendola is worth $3.625M, then he is the patriot's 2014 slot receiver.

IF WE KEEP Amendola (and presume drafting a TE or 2), then we can decide what we need from the free agent market at receiver (WR and/or TE) and at what cost.

If Amendola is capable of being our slot receiver (with Collie or Moe as backup), then I see him as being worth the #3.5M or so. If not, he isn't.

BOTTOM LINE
Amendola is contracted be paid $4M a year for 2014 and 2015. Edelman will not likely play for that. The choice of Edelman could be relevant if he were willing to play for $4M a year or less.

Well, you can't "give" Amendola's salary to Eds, sorry - doesn't work that way. You'll LOSE 4.8 million in that trade over the next two years.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out.


Julian Edelman did not replace Wes Welker. Edelman took more than half his snaps as an outside receiver, even with all of Amendola's issues.

Danny Amendola is the Wes Welker replacement.

I think you are confusing them moving Edelman to the Z-WR in three wide receiver sets to accommodate the fact that the only viable receiver on our depth chart was Amendola who played best from the slot with him actually playing the Z-WR position.

If Amendola were the Welker replacement, he would have been on the field in two wide receiver formations, which he was not after week 12 at halftime. Roll the snaps taken in weeks 1, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 11 on the outside by Edelman when the team was trying to give their $28.5M investment an opportunity to play the position he got paid to play. Look at the regular season games from week 12 on as well as the postseason games and tell me if those snap percentages on the outside are the same, I would be willing to bet they are not even close.

Amendola was the Welker replacement, at halftime of the Broncos game he received a demotion to the #3 WR and that is where he remained.

 

[Froob]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out.


Julian Edelman did not replace Wes Welker. Edelman took more than half his snaps as an outside receiver, even with all of Amendola's issues.

Danny Amendola is the Wes Welker replacement.

False, white wide outs can't do anything but slot and they're all smurfs.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Is this a rerun or an actual new thread?

 

[JPsPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Anyone who compares stats between Danny and Jules in favour of Danny is super biased. On the rams, Amendola was considered to be a top target, and I don't believe he's ever surpassed 700 receiving yards.

Jules has been buried in the depth chart because we had Welker, Murderer, and Gronk. In Jules' first year to be a real go to go guy, he shined and showed great hands, separation, and open field elusiveness (punt returning skills).

Everyone wants to play the oh he's always hurt wait till he's healthy hand with Amendola, but when Jules was healthy this year look what we got out of him.

There's a reason Amendola is on his third team early in his career, he's not a must keep guy. If the Amendola contract is the reason we lose Jules, it will go down as a big mess up by the front office.

As many people said going into TC last season, BB panicked because it appeared we had no proven weapons outside of gronk, so we settled for a mediocre slot guy and overpaid to get him. Little did we know we had a gem sitting on our roster who shines this year.

 

[primetime]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

There's a reason Welker is on his third team early in his career, he's not a must keep guy.

Just figured I'd point out that this is a silly argument to make about Amendola given the parallel

 

[hwc]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I just keep scratching my head...

If I'm not mistaken, the only established veteran NFL receiver (not mending from ACL surgery) the New England Patriots have under contract for 2014 is Danny Amendola.

Can someone explain to me why there is a new thread everyday saying that we should cut him so that we have no receivers under contract?

Seems to me that the discussion should be focused on who we can ADD to the receiving corps.

 

[JPsPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Just figured I'd point out that this is a silly argument to make about Amendola given the parallel

What are you smoking? The comparison between those 2 is totally not related. Welker is 32, been to 5 probowls and has over 9000 receiving yards.

Amendola is 28 and has under 3000 receiving yards.

Teams let him go because he's always hurt and has average production.

BB stole Welker from Miami, and when Welker left for denver is was because of bad blood, not a production issue.

Not to mention half of this board wants Amendola cut already even though it won't happen.

Oops looks like amendola is on his fourth team, therefore your argument is even more invalid.


Dallas Cowboys (2008)*
Philadelphia Eagles (2009)*
St. Louis Rams (2009–2012)
New England Patriots (2013–present)

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Is this a rerun or an actual new thread?

The premise for the thread was if it makes sense to resign Edelman for what the reported cost would be. Somehow, it has transformed into who is better debate about Edelman and Amendola. That really does not matter, I think Edelman is better but I do not think he is worth $6M+ on a team that already has Amendola. If it was Edelman or Amendola on the free agent market then I could see the who is better discussion being worthwhile but right now it is a question of whether Edelman is that much better that he merits us paying big money for him and Amendola at least for the 2014 season.

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Their career, stats are as follows (including the postseason).

I gave you the same stats - regular season.

One key one that you left out is targets. I am not sure if you know this or not but it is hard to catch a football when it is not thrown to you. Amendola had more targets in the first four games of 2012 than Edelman targets in 2011 and 2012 combined. Opportunity is the only thing Amendola was better at prior to this season.

So turn it around: Amendola had half the targets as Edelman this year. Go figure - course in YOUR view, that means he "couldn't get open." You're so quick to project bias - dude, look in the f***ing mirror. What's this, thread 967, and all designed for the same thing?

You're like a teabagger on Obama...obsessed. Please, point out all my threads regarding this.

Edelman is a better player and the stars did not align for him at all this season.

Well, that's quite a claim. You must have missed the part where the Pats let him walk this year and only brought him back on a team-friendly deal when no one else would take him. I mean, I know you're his brother or something, but if you're going to take what I said about the stars aligning as an insult to the guy, you need to take a big step back.

I love JE and couldn't be happier for him. Two years ago when he outperformed Welker at camp, by all accounts, I thought he'd break out...but then he got hurt...AGAIN. I hated that they might lose him last year and was glad when he came back, then really glad when he stepped up - for him and the team.

Pardon me if I give the same optimism to other guys in the NFL who get hurt (note my Wilson thread), like Amendola. I'm a *gasp* FAN of the game and particularly of the team. Show me a post anywhere by me where I'm disparaging a player. Anywhere.

I root for them - quite a concept.

You have a biased for Amendola, you joined this forum the same month he signed, so I get it but do not manipulate numbers and act like Amendola has been a productive player throughout his career and this season was the only time Edelman has ever been successful.

"you joined this forum the same month he signed, so I get it" - Are you a moron? Seriously, wtf is wrong with you?

I joined this forum in the off-season last year (after finding it and lurking through the last part of the year), right when free agency started and I saw some interesting discussions. Are you seriously trying to imply that I joined as a booster to DA? Yeah, I root for him - I WANT him to do well. Same with Kelly and Wilson, eh? Same with JE and Boyce and Thompkins and all the rest.

Danny Amendola: Career Stats at NFL.com
and
Julian Edelman: Career Stats at NFL.com

Pulled the stats right from there.

For the record. straight up, right now, if I could choose between the two, I'd take Edelman.

But I'm not a fan of giving up on a guy because he gets hurt (like EDELMAN), nor am I thrilled at the prospect of cutting and running because someone plays hurt. All year - played hurt. There are lots of guys who get dinged and sit out, because they know if they play, they'll perform below expectations and it will cost them money. I respect the guys who'll play hurt - Week 1, Buffalo, Amendola looked like he had a knife stuck in his balls...and he went out and helped them win the game.

Arrington played hurt last half of the year and got crucified on this and other forums by the armchair warriors who couldn't take a single hit without shattering.

So yeah, I'll cheer.

And yeah, I don't see the Pats ponying up for Edelman, but I'm not BB, so who knows.

Now run along and start 968, quick, before someone forgets your opinion.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I gave you the same stats - regular season.



So turn it around: Amendola had half the targets as Edelman this year. Go figure - course in YOUR view, that means he "couldn't get open." You're so quick to project bias - dude, look in the f***ing mirror. What's this, thread 967, and all designed for the same thing?

You're like a teabagger on Obama...obsessed. Please, point out all my threads regarding this.



Well, that's quite a claim. You must have missed the part where the Pats let him walk this year and only brought him back on a team-friendly deal when no one else would take him. I mean, I know you're his brother or something, but if you're going to take what I said about the stars aligning as an insult to the guy, you need to take a big step back.

I love JE and couldn't be happier for him. Two years ago when he outperformed Welker at camp, by all accounts, I thought he'd break out...but then he got hurt...AGAIN. I hated that they might lose him last year and was glad when he came back, then really glad when he stepped up - for him and the team.

Pardon me if I give the same optimism to other guys in the NFL who get hurt (note my Wilson thread), like Amendola. I'm a *gasp* FAN of the game and particularly of the team. Show me a post anywhere by me where I'm disparaging a player. Anywhere.

I root for them - quite a concept.



"you joined this forum the same month he signed, so I get it" - Are you a moron? Seriously, wtf is wrong with you?

I joined this forum in the off-season last year (after finding it and lurking through the last part of the year), right when free agency started and I saw some interesting discussions. Are you seriously trying to imply that I joined as a booster to DA? Yeah, I root for him - I WANT him to do well. Same with Kelly and Wilson, eh? Same with JE and Boyce and Thompkins and all the rest.

Danny Amendola: Career Stats at NFL.com
and
Julian Edelman: Career Stats at NFL.com

Pulled the stats right from there.

For the record. straight up, right now, if I could choose between the two, I'd take Edelman.

But I'm not a fan of giving up on a guy because he gets hurt (like EDELMAN), nor am I thrilled at the prospect of cutting and running because someone plays hurt. All year - played hurt. There are lots of guys who get dinged and sit out, because they know if they play, they'll perform below expectations and it will cost them money. I respect the guys who'll play hurt - Week 1, Buffalo, Amendola looked like he had a knife stuck in his balls...and he went out and helped them win the game.

Arrington played hurt last half of the year and got crucified on this and other forums by the armchair warriors who couldn't take a single hit without shattering.

So yeah, I'll cheer.

And yeah, I don't see the Pats ponying up for Edelman, but I'm not BB, so who knows.

Now run along and start 968, quick, before someone forgets your opinion.

Struck a nerve huh, you had to turn to insults.

I never said jack crap about Amendola getting open; I said Amendola is not better than Edelman end of discussion. Post all the foolish stats you want, he is inconsistent, and he has been throughout his career.

This thread is not about which one of them is better, it is about the reality of the situation that we are committed to Amendola and the question is whether or not Edelman is a worth his asking price to this team which is already heavily invested in Amendola.

You can take the debate about who is better along with your overly aggressive insulting making behavior elsewhere. You constantly trying to make everything that is discussed about keeping Edelman into a defending Amendola thread is tired and ridiculous, if you want to talk about a teenage obsessed with Obama that would be you. My OP said it would probably be best for the team to proceed with Amendola based on economics but that is not good enough you need to defend Amendola anyway.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I don't know how many times this has to be pointed out.


Julian Edelman did not replace Wes Welker. Edelman took more than half his snaps as an outside receiver, even with all of Amendola's issues.

Danny Amendola is the Wes Welker replacement.

call me crazy but I think if anything Edelman replaced Hernandez I know his not a TE but AH never really ran the true TE routes like Gronk he was a big WR and Edelman was pretty much running does same routs that AH would run

 

[JPsPats]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Struck a nerve huh, you had to turn to insults.

I never said jack crap about Amendola getting open; I said Amendola is not better than Edelman end of discussion. Post all the foolish stats you want, he is inconsistent, and he has been throughout his career.

This thread is not about which one of them is better, it is about the reality of the situation that we are committed to Amendola and the question is whether or not Edelman is a worth his asking price to this team which is already heavily invested in Amendola.

You can take the debate about who is better along with your overly aggressive insulting making behavior back to the Rams thread 50…

Agree 100% .

Amendola:

Dallas Cowboys (2008)*
Philadelphia Eagles (2009)*
St. Louis Rams (2009–2012)
New England Patriots (2013–present)

Jules:

New England Patriots (2009–present)

 

[50-yard-line]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Struck a nerve huh, you had to turn to insults.

You implied that I joined as a DA booster - in other words, you questioned my sincerity and integrity...

In other words, you're a douchebag. When you throw stones, I'll throw back.

And you did it again with your Rams crack. I've been a Pats fan all my life, lived in New England all my life. I went to the Bruins training camps in Fitchburg before you were born, watched the Celtics all my life, and have lived and breathed Red Sox since 1967 (when I was 8 - and now I've got season tickets to Fenway). Been to two Superbowls - in Houston and Jacksonville, and no, sorry son, I don't recall the Rams playing in either one.

You think you're so so goddamned smart that the only way anyone could possibly disagree with you would be if they had ulterior motives...wow, what a hero, really.

 

[Brady6]

Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has A...

You implied that I joined as a DA booster - in other words, you questioned my sincerity and integrity...



In other words, you're a douchebag. When you throw stones, I'll throw back.



And you did it again with your Rams crack. I've been a Pats fan all my life, lived in New England all my life. I went to the Bruins training camps in Fitchburg before you were born, watched the Celtics all my life, and have lived and breathed Red Sox since 1967 (when I was 8 - and now I've got season tickets to Fenway). Been to two Superbowls - in Houston and Jacksonville, and no, sorry son, I don't recall the Rams playing in either one.



You think you're so so goddamned smart that the only way anyone could possibly disagree with you would be if they had ulterior motives...wow, what a hero, really.

I think I'm smart enough that I don't have to call people morons and douche bags.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

If we were to cut Amendola on March 11th at 3PM and were to sign Edelman at 5 PM, we would have the same number of established veteran receivers before and after the transactions.

I just keep scratching my head...

If I'm not mistaken, the only established veteran NFL receiver (not mending from ACL surgery) the New England Patriots have under contract for 2014 is Danny Amendola.

Can someone explain to me why there is a new thread everyday saying that we should cut him so that we have no receivers under contract?

Seems to me that the discussion should be focused on who we can ADD to the receiving corps.

 

[Joker]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

I think I'm smart enough that I don't have to call people morons and douche bags.

guess that makes me profoundly stupid...

 

[primetime]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

What are you smoking? The comparison between those 2 is totally not related. Welker is 32, been to 5 probowls and has over 9000 receiving yards.

Welker was on his third team in a young career when he joined the Patriots

Which is the exact argument you used to attempt to prove that Amendola wasn't very good

 

[ripatsfan91]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Why can't everyone just get along? Jeez..

How much dead money is there if we cut Amendola after this season vs next season?

Can't we just structure contracts in a way that we can keep both for next year and see how they produce when they are both healthy and make a decision in the 2015 offseason? JE's chemistry with Brady is invaluable and something we need to retain.

 

[MassPats38]

Re: Edelman may be worth $6-$8 million, but is he worth that to a team that has Amend

Their career, stats are as follows (including the postseason).

• Edelman – 5 seasons, 71 games, 199 receptions, 297 targets, 67.08% ratio, 2018 yards, 10.14 average, 13 receiving touchdowns, 17 total touchdowns
• Amendola – 6 seasons, 56 games, 253 receptions, 383 targets 66.05% ratio, 2436 yards, 9.62 average, and 9 receiving/total touchdowns

One key one that you left out is targets. I am not sure if you know this or not but it is hard to catch a football when it is not thrown to you. Amendola had more targets in the first four games of 2012 than Edelman targets in 2011 and 2012 combined. Opportunity is the only thing Amendola was better at prior to this season.

Last I checked, Amendola has worked with Brady for one year. Targets are a very subjective stat, and the quality of the passer may make that number very difficult to read. I know you are claiming to be objective in anointing JE better, but please explain how 'footsteps' Bulger and Sam Bradford compare to the Brady experience if you somehow believe those numbers are comparable. Throwing to a receiver does not necessarily equate to the same degree of catchable passes. I submit Brady may be somewhat more proficient than those alternatives, but I will leave it to you to explain why you believe Amendola had it easier than JE.

And if you believe 'targets' is a significant statistic, then you need to read this. It is very subjective, and unofficial. Furthermore, a more targeted receiver tends to equate to a more covered receiver, making receptions more difficult.