2014 Patriots Need TEs Not More Wide Receivers

[ashley]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

As of right now Edelman isn't on the team unless KT, Moe, Harrison or Boyce make huge strides its tough to imagine them starting. Dobson and Amendola are the only sure starters at WR. If the Patriots were to draft a receiver in the first round or sign someone they could have Dobson, Amendola and the first rounder starting. With KT, Boyce, Moe and Harrison as backups. And at TE I would not be shocked if Gronk starts on PUP, I would even be inclined to sit him untill the playoffs. The Patriots could draft a TE in the 3rd and 4th round and see which one can start. They can also sign a cheap blocking TE. Then the depth chart could look something like this
X WR: Dobson, KT, Harrison
Z WR: First rounder, Boyce
Slot: Amendola, Moe
TE: Gronkowski 3rd, 4th, Blocking FA TE

I still expect the Patriots to draft a Guard in the first round. But this plan would be interesing. They could draft a Guard in the 2nd round. and add defensive players.

The O-line could look like this
LT: Solder
LG: Mankins, Kline
C: Connolly, Cave
RG: 2nd rounder, Barker
RT: Volmer, Cannon

This would fill are needs offensively
Defensively are needs would be
1. CB
2. Pass rushing DT
3. DE
4. LB
I don't see saftey as a need, Gregory and Harmon will fight for a staring spot. I dont understand why evreyone hates Gregory on this board, he is a good box safety and compliments McCourty nicely.

For some of these things to happen, Wilfork would need to take a serious pay cut or be released to make some of these signings happen. I believe Siliga based on what I saw on tape, he can start at NT. I think a lot of the off-season depends on what happens with Wilfork.

If we pick a WR in the first round it will be a huge mistake!!! We have more pressing needs on the defensive side as well as a bigger need at tight end and O-oline.

Can't we give our rookies from last year a little time to develop. On top of that I'd like to get quicker and more athletic on defense and I'd like to upgrade the safety position as well. I don't want another year where it's 3rd and 20 or 3rd and 11 and our opponent is converting every single time either because of a lack of pressure or because Gregory can't cover a decent tight end or can't tackle.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

If we pick a WR in the first round it will be a huge mistake!!! We have more pressing needs on the defensive side as well as a bigger need at tight end and O-oline.

Can't we give our rookies from last year a little time to develop. On top of that I'd like to get quicker and more athletic on defense and I'd like to upgrade the safety position as well. I don't want another year where it's 3rd and 20 or 3rd and 11 and our opponent is converting every single time either because of a lack of pressure or because Gregory can't cover a decent tight end or can't tackle.

I don't understand what you mean by quicker and more athletic. Collins is probably the most athletic player in the NFL. Could you specify what position? I agree that we need time for rookies to develop, but I dont think they deserve to start unless they have proved themselves. I don't understand why getting a TE is so important, your basically getting a tall slot receiver. Was AH really a TE? Graham? Julius Thomas? There receiving thearts, I don't see the need for guys to work on the inside of the field. The big difference between a TE and WR nowadays is receivers play outside. I agree we could use more interior pressure and an alternated body for Ninko and CJ. I don't understand why we need to find defensive players though the draft. I know you want to resign Edelman, but an upgrade over him would be really nice, I don't understand why it needs to be a TE. As for Gregory we will never agree on him, I guess I don't see him getting beat on third down, he looks like a good player to me on film who plays the robber role nicely and provides run support and I know BB likes a smart player. We also should let Harmon develop as you said.

Would a defense like this be OK with you?
RDE: Jones, Everson Griffen
NT: Sealver Siliga, Vellano, Grissom
DT: Alex Carrington, Armstead, Chris Jones
LDE: Ninkovich, Buchanan
WLB: Mayo, Beauharnus
MLB: Hightower, Fletcher
SLB: Collins, 5th rounder
CB: Talib, Ryan
CB: Dennard, Arrington, Justin Green
FS: McCourty, Harmon
SS: Gregory, T. Wilson, Ebner
Harmon and Gregory would fight for staring SS

As for the Oline I think moving to Connolly to center and drafting a Guard in the second round would work.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

If we pick a WR in the first round it will be a huge mistake!!! We have more pressing needs on the defensive side as well as a bigger need at tight end and O-oline.

.

That depends upon the WR's available when they pick. I agree on your priorities but if they think that Mike Evans is going to become Vincent Jackson, or Marquise Lee is going to become Reggie Wayne, and they don't have as high an opinion of the prospects at positions of greater need then go right ahead and take the guy you believe is going to become an All Pro and not the perceived greater need. Need is always a primary factor in their draft's but as Peachhead said going strictly for position and bypassing better player's is a long term strategy for failure. The goal of every first round pick should be to get an elite player, and if you do that every draft then you are maximizing the potential of those picks. You can still make moves to address those needs as the draft unfolds but hopefully the back-up plan has already been addressed in free agency and the draft is there to supplement it with the best possible prospects.

I am flexible when it comes to how they address their offseason needs, the only thing i really care about is that they address them. I would like to see them try to re-sign some of their key free agents but expect a number of them to move on, and that will add to their offseason needs list. If Edelman goes then WR becomes more of a priority than it would be if he stays, and if they can address DL and DB in free agency then they will be free to go heavy for offense in the draft, however ultimately it is always a mix of both and they will try to bolster both sides of the ball in free agency and the draft.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I think a first round WR would be a huge surprise:

1. Never drafted a first round WR

2. Drafted two last year

3. A VERY deep draft at the WR position.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I think the Pats will choose there favorite player at G, WR, TE, DT and DE. I don't think anyone would be shocked if we traded out of the first round again considering how deep this draft is. It would be awesome if we got a deal similar to last years. If that happens we could get 2-3 starters and be loaded depth wise. It could look something like this

2nd: G
2nd: WR
3rd: DT
3rd: TE
4th: LB
4th: RB
6th: TE
6th: RB
7th: DE
7th: LB

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I think a first round WR would be a huge surprise:

1. Never drafted a first round WR

2. Drafted two last year

3. A VERY deep draft at the WR position.

I agree, but would not discount it if the right player was sitting there when they pick. belichick has surprised many times in the past, going for Maroney when we said he wouldn't take a RB in the first, moving up twice in the first round two years ago, and spending a first on a guard when he was on the record as saying you can get them in the third and fourth rounds whenever you want to. (Mankins was a tackle in college but they knew he was going to be their LG when they took him.) Ultimately it comes down to the player and how they have them rated, but overall i think he puts more value closer to the line because they are more heavily involved in the action, he doesn't want to use a first on a guy who only touches the ball 4-7 times a game.

Looking at this draft i think his choices are pretty wide open, i could see him going a number of directions depending upon who rises, who falls, and who is left. WR is doubtful but TE is a strong likelihood, however i could also see him going safety (Pryor or Dix), OG (Yankey) OLB (Ford, Van Noy) DL (Ealy,Tuitt, Nix Hagemann) and possibly even CB (insert name here). there is going to be a great deal of movement heading into the draft and it will be really interesting to see how it settles and who might actually be there at #29.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I agree, but would not discount it if the right player was sitting there when they pick. belichick has surprised many times in the past, going for Maroney when we said he wouldn't take a RB in the first, moving up twice in the first round two years ago, and spending a first on a guard when he was on the record as saying you can get them in the third and fourth rounds whenever you want to. (Mankins was a tackle in college but they knew he was going to be their LG when they took him.) Ultimately it comes down to the player and how they have them rated, but overall i think he puts more value closer to the line because they are more heavily involved in the action, he doesn't want to use a first on a guy who only touches the ball 4-7 times a game.

Looking at this draft i think his choices are pretty wide open, i could see him going a number of directions depending upon who rises, who falls, and who is left. WR is doubtful but TE is a strong likelihood, however i could also see him going safety (Pryor or Dix), OG (Yankey) OLB (Ford, Van Noy) DL (Ealy,Tuitt, Nix Hagemann) and possibly even CB (insert name here). there is going to be a great deal of movement heading into the draft and it will be really interesting to see how it settles and who might actually be there at #29.

It's a statement of the obvious, but only after Free agency will the draft necessities become clearer.

I agree with you that 'the guy' might be there as a WR, but even then, there players available in later rounds that might do the job equally well. For example:

Want Evans or Benjamin in the first- Get Brandon Coleman or Donte Moncrief later.

Want Odell Beckham in the first - get Brandin Cooks in the second or third.

However, I do think that this was the optimal year to double dip at the WR position. It is so deep, even better than last year. It's such a shame that I don't think we'll go there this year.

 

[ashley]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I don't understand what you mean by quicker and more athletic. Collins is probably the most athletic player in the NFL. Could you specify what position? I agree that we need time for rookies to develop, but I dont think they deserve to start unless they have proved themselves. I don't understand why getting a TE is so important, your basically getting a tall slot receiver. Was AH really a TE? Graham? Julius Thomas? There receiving thearts, I don't see the need for guys to work on the inside of the field. The big difference between a TE and WR nowadays is receivers play outside. I agree we could use more interior pressure and an alternated body for Ninko and CJ. I don't understand why we need to find defensive players though the draft. I know you want to resign Edelman, but an upgrade over him would be really nice, I don't understand why it needs to be a TE. As for Gregory we will never agree on him, I guess I don't see him getting beat on third down, he looks like a good player to me on film who plays the robber role nicely and provides run support and I know BB likes a smart player. We also should let Harmon develop as you said.

Would a defense like this be OK with you?
RDE: Jones, Everson Griffen
NT: Sealver Siliga, Vellano, Grissom
DT: Alex Carrington, Armstead, Chris Jones
LDE: Ninkovich, Buchanan
WLB: Mayo, Beauharnus
MLB: Hightower, Fletcher
SLB: Collins, 5th rounder
CB: Talib, Ryan
CB: Dennard, Arrington, Justin Green
FS: McCourty, Harmon
SS: Gregory, T. Wilson, Ebner
Harmon and Gregory would fight for staring SS

As for the Oline I think moving to Connolly to center and drafting a Guard in the second round would work.

I really like Collins potential. I want more athletes like him on the defense. We can start by getting more physical and athletic with the safety position. McCourty is fine, but we must have an upgrade at the other safety position. I don't know if Harmon is the answer but I ask, if he is so good, why couldn't he beat Gregory out the end of last year. How about another disruptive pass rusher as well, or another athletic linebacker to go along with Mayo and Collins?


As far as the tight end position, I think it's a big need. I like to create matchup problems for other teams. Let's get one of the top tight ends in the draft(whether it's Amaro, ASJ, Niklas, Fiedorwicz or Rodgers) someone to help us in the red zone.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

It's a statement of the obvious, but only after Free agency will the draft necessities become clearer.

I agree with you that 'the guy' might be there as a WR, but even then, there players available in later rounds that might do the job equally well. For example:

Want Evans or Benjamin in the first- Get Brandon Coleman or Donte Moncrief later.

Want Odell Beckham in the first - get Brandin Cooks in the second or third.

However, I do think that this was the optimal year to double dip at the WR position. It is so deep, even better than last year. It's such a shame that I don't think we'll go there this year.

I can agree with the basic concept but to this point i have to say that I haven't really had the time or the information available to speak with any knowledge of the mid to later round picks, other than to say that Cooks size concerns me. In terms of WR I would much rather see them bring in a guy who can contribute early on than one who would be battling Thompkins for 4th WR, so i would rather see a Beckham or Lee or Evans, but obviously it is also going to depend upon who else is on the board at the time.

In all honesty I would like to see them address WR in free agency because I want a player who can contribute this season and don't dare to count on a mid to late prospect to do that. I would be fine however with them taking a flier on a guy like Maclin on a one year deal and then addressing WR with a 3rd rounder (e.g)

 

[Huckleberry1]

I think the other thing to takee into consideration in terms of prioritizing TE is that if they get a top TE in the draft and Amendola and Gronkowski return to form then defenses are going to have to devote much more to stopping their passing attack inside and that is really going to free things up for Dobson, Boyce etc....., so that one move would benefit everyone, whereas an additional wideout wouldn't necessarily achieve that.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I really like Collins potential. I want more athletes like him on the defense. We can start by getting more physical and athletic with the safety position. McCourty is fine, but we must have an upgrade at the other safety position. I don't know if Harmon is the answer but I ask, if he is so good, why couldn't he beat Gregory out the end of last year. How about another disruptive pass rusher as well, or another athletic linebacker to go along with Mayo and Collins?


As far as the tight end position, I think it's a big need. I like to create matchup problems for other teams. Let's get one of the top tight ends in the draft(whether it's Amaro, ASJ, Niklas, Fiedorwicz or Rodgers) someone to help us in the red zone.

I'm all for another pass rusher. I'm fine with taking an "athletic" LB in the 4th or so round. I cant imagine he would take many snaps away from Hightower, Collins and Mayo. Hightower is athletic to me at 270 and he still has solid speed, faster then spikes, and less injury prone.

Is safety your #1 need defensively? Harmon didn't take over Gregory for a number of reasons last year, Gregory played in the same role all season it wouldn't make much sense to give Harmon a role Gregory was playing all year. Another reason is Gregory wore the green dot, called plays, made adjustments. Harmon is a rookie and with Harmon the Patriots play more cover-2 man/zone. With Gregory the Pats play more cover-1 or single high safety with Gregory as a robber "lurk" or in man coverage, which allows him to have the green dot. Harmon played well in the time he did play, the main measurement as a safety is not getting targeted. Harmon did a food job at that. He can do every thing at safety he dosnt just play single high or the "centerfielder". He is great at recognizing plays and he reacts quickly. Gregory been a starter for two seasons, I think that shows BB must like him. Teammates of Gregory have said he is the smartest player they have ever played with.

 

[ashley]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I'm all for another pass rusher. I'm fine with taking an "athletic" LB in the 4th or so round. I cant imagine he would take many snaps away from Hightower, Collins and Mayo. Hightower is athletic to me at 270 and he still has solid speed, faster then spikes, and less injury prone.

Is safety your #1 need defensively? Harmon didn't take over Gregory for a number of reasons last year, Gregory played in the same role all season it wouldn't make much sense to give Harmon a role Gregory was playing all year. Another reason is Gregory wore the green dot, called plays, made adjustments. Harmon is a rookie and with Harmon the Patriots play more cover-2 man/zone. With Gregory the Pats play more cover-1 or single high safety with Gregory as a robber "lurk" or in man coverage, which allows him to have the green dot. Harmon played well in the time he did play, the main measurement as a safety is not getting targeted. Harmon did a food job at that. He can do every thing at safety he dosnt just play single high or the "centerfielder". He is great at recognizing plays and he reacts quickly. Gregory been a starter for two seasons, I think that shows BB must like him. Teammates of Gregory have said he is the smartest player they have ever played with.

I think Safety and Defensive Line are very close. While I understand that Gregory is very smart, he is limited in so many ways. He can't match up against a good tight end, he is slow, he is not physical and misses too many tackles. The thing about this draft is when we pick, the top two safeties are going to be gone. I don't want to reach just for the sake of taking a need. I think there will be more value getting a top defensive lineman with our first pick there.

I am really tired of our 3rd down defense. We have to find a way to get off the field. Now I agree, the lack of pass rush was evident at times last year, the play of our safety has to improve as well.

Do you see Harmon as our long term answer at safety? I'm not sure if he is or not, I just want an upgrade from last year.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I think Safety and Defensive Line are very close. While I understand that Gregory is very smart, he is limited in so many ways. He can't match up against a good tight end, he is slow, he is not physical and misses too many tackles. The thing about this draft is when we pick, the top two safeties are going to be gone. I don't want to reach just for the sake of taking a need. I think there will be more value getting a top defensive lineman with our first pick there.

I am really tired of our 3rd down defense. We have to find a way to get off the field. Now I agree, the lack of pass rush was evident at times last year, the play of our safety has to improve as well.

Do you see Harmon as our long term answer at safety? I'm not sure if he is or not, I just want an upgrade from last year.

I disagree, I think Dline is way more of a need then Safety. We will see though, I don't think its even close. Will find out short enough though.

 

[supafly]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I think Safety and Defensive Line are very close. While I understand that Gregory is very smart, he is limited in so many ways. He can't match up against a good tight end, he is slow, he is not physical and misses too many tackles. The thing about this draft is when we pick, the top two safeties are going to be gone. I don't want to reach just for the sake of taking a need. I think there will be more value getting a top defensive lineman with our first pick there.

I am really tired of our 3rd down defense. We have to find a way to get off the field. Now I agree, the lack of pass rush was evident at times last year, the play of our safety has to improve as well.

Do you see Harmon as our long term answer at safety? I'm not sure if he is or not, I just want an upgrade from last year.

I disagree, I think Dline is way more of a need then Safety. We will see though, I don't think its even close. Will find out short enough though.

I think a couple of different factors may come into play, Ashley.

First off, it may depend on what Belichick feels about Harmon's development last season, along with T.Wilson (or possibly even A.Wilson as well) and whether or not they can get through the season with any kind of reasonable depth. I tend to agree with you and put safety as a need that is pretty high.

I also think that some of the positions (such as interior OL) aren't good options for 1st round selections, possibly even 2nd round either. That means that we could reasonably cross that position off the list until we get down to the 3rd/4th rounds in my opinion.

That would mean that Belichick may be weighing the BPA's at certain positions such as TE, DL, and even S/CB for the first couple of selections in my opinion. I think reasonable debates can be made for BOTH the position of DL, as well as safety too. That may come down to who is left and Bill Belichick's personal feelings.

 

[supafly]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I think the Pats will choose there favorite player at G, WR, TE, DT and DE. I don't think anyone would be shocked if we traded out of the first round again considering how deep this draft is. It would be awesome if we got a deal similar to last years. If that happens we could get 2-3 starters and be loaded depth wise. It could look something like this

2nd: G
2nd: WR
3rd: DT
3rd: TE
4th: LB
4th: RB
6th: TE
6th: RB
7th: DE
7th: LB

I would be quite surprised if the NE Patriots decided to choose an interior offensive lineman with their first overall choice. I think that would be borderline stupid.

That kind of position doesn't usually warrant that high of a choice, let alone first overall choice.

EDIT: My wife just asked if that was a rip on her DAL CBoys selection last year, as she walked by and looked over my shoulder. LOL

 

[All22PatsFan]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

I would be quite surprised if the NE Patriots decided to choose an interior offensive lineman with their first overall choice. I think that would be borderline stupid.

That kind of position doesn't usually warrant that high of a choice, let alone first overall choice.

They drafted Mankins 31. Every one said that was a terrible pick at the time. Yes he had tackle experience but so do many of the upcoming prospects. As of right now who is starting at RG? As of right now the only positions not filled are CB (without Talib) and RG assuming Connolly moves to Center. Some can make a case for the move of Cannon to Guard but I don't see it. If Solder or Volmer goes down he is starting at RT.
As for the draft I think they could go DT, WR, TE or G in the first and I think they would choose there highest ranked player. I don't see them taking a Safety for reasons posted above and DE seems to be weak this year.
The most interesting part of the off season this year is seeing what we do with Wilfork and Talib. It should be interesting, I see the Pats cutting ties with Wilfork and adding Talib or another top tier CB.

 

[Joker]

Hey, Supa...who's the meathead in this avatar??

 

[supafly]

Hey, Supa...who's the meathead in this avatar??

I am said meathead, Mr.Kerr.

 

[supafly]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

They drafted Mankins 31. Every one said that was a terrible pick at the time. Yes he had tackle experience but so do many of the upcoming prospects. As of right now who is starting at RG? As of right now the only positions not filled are CB (without Talib) and RG assuming Connolly moves to Center. Some can make a case for the move of Cannon to Guard but I don't see it. If Solder or Volmer goes down he is starting at RT.
As for the draft I think they could go DT, WR, TE or G in the first and I think they would choose there highest ranked player. I don't see them taking a Safety for reasons posted above and DE seems to be weak this year.
The most interesting part of the off season this year is seeing what we do with Wilfork and Talib. It should be interesting, I see the Pats cutting ties with Wilfork and adding Talib or another top tier CB.

You have a reasonable enough prediction, we just have a bit of a difference of opinions on the priority--nothing more.

I still think that safety is a pretty big hole, particularly if you see Gregory as a possible cut as I do. That isn't leaving us much to work with in terms of an unknown rookie and nothing behind him.

I think it could be DL, TE, S, OL somewhere during the first 3 picks. However that shakes out is fine with me, as long as they are all addressed.

 

[All22PatsFan]

Re: Bigger need WR vs TE?

You have a reasonable enough prediction, we just have a bit of a difference of opinions on the priority--nothing more.

I still think that safety is a pretty big hole, particularly if you see Gregory as a possible cut as I do. That isn't leaving us much to work with in terms of an unknown rookie and nothing behind him.

I think it could be DL, TE, S, OL somewhere during the first 3 picks. However that shakes out is fine with me, as long as they are all addressed.

I think the Pats have to add a CB, it could be Talib, Grimes, Verner, DRC, Munnerlyn or Davis. CB is to risky to take in the 1st round especially with this weak of a corner class. I think are CB depth is pretty good, maybe draft a 5th CB late to compete with Justin Green.

The DL could use a interior pass rusher and a 3rd DE who can play on nickel packages and can alternate with Ninko and CJ. I firmly believe based on what I see Siliga can start and perform at a high level. Making Wilfork expandable. TK will probably be cut at his age, size coming off ACL doesn't look good. We could use a backup NT if Wilfork goes Vellano or Grissom could be the guy but I'm sure they can find a cheap alternative option.

At OL the only hole is RG, I'm not sure the Pats are comfortable with starting a 3rd Guard or Cannon. I would expect them to draft one into the first or second or add someone. I like Josh Kline as a backup but we should probably add another backup at G. Connolly and Cave should do at Guard.

At TE Gronk is the only body, I expect the Pats to draft a guy in the 3rd-4th round and an the 6th-7th round and add a cheap blocking TE.

At WR Edelman's spot has to be filled. I don't think Boyce or KT have proved worthy of it. I think they should draft guy in the first or 2nd round or add a guy.

This plan would look something like this
Add pass rushing DT (Alex Carrington)
Add 3rd DE ( Everson Griffen)
Add top tier CB (Talib, Grimes, DRC, Davis, Verner)
Add RB( Blount at right price)
Draft:
1. WR\G
2. WR\G
3rd. TE
4th. LB
6th. NT
7th. TE
This fills all needs and leaves good depth. I think Safety will stay the same