I'll admit i was wrong - Amendola didn't work

[50-yard-line]

I think a lot of us were happy that we got Amendola (a lot sad that we lost Wes, but that's business). I was excited, he made some acrobatic catches with the Rams and we all thought having Brady would give him Wes like numbers. But Amendola is injury prone,

So is Edelman by the same standards. Edelman finally got the injury monkey off his back this year, but before this year...

his hands are not as good as we thought

Here are the 2012 comparison, Welker v. Amendola in the slot:

Rec/game 5.5 4.6
Rec pct 66.0 66.2
Drops 13 1
Drop pct 8.9 1.3

Welker's the first column - 13 drops.
I showed earlier that Amendola caught very near the same % of targets as Edelman. He had a couple of big drops - so did Edelman, so did Dobson, so did Thompkins...so did Welker (one was called a catch in the opener, lol).

His hands are fine. A couple of the catches he made in the opener were spectacular.

and his route running is not as good as the top slot guys.

Pure conjecture...the stats don't back it up. I expect his routes were bit more rounded this year, playing through a groin injury, but I've never heard any football guy make this claim about DA, and certainly not before this year post-injury.

I think we all saw that Brady lost trust in him as the season wore on and Edelman became the guy. Even without Gronk and down in a game against the Broncos he had 0 catches. Edelman had a great season and too me goes in next year ahead on the depth chart of DA.

The two Denver games were both miserable for DA - easily his worst two games of the year. I don't know, maybe Denver had a way or game plan to take him out - certainly seems that way.

Other than Volin's poetic license, there's nothing to indicate to me that Brady lost confidence in DA. Edelman seemed to be taking the underneath routes, though. In the AFC Divisional game, Edelman had 6 catches for 84 yard (14 YPC), while DA had 3 for 77 (25.67 YPC), including the critical 53-yarder.

In the AFCCG, Brady turtled. He did. He had no time and Denver was throwing 7 dbs at the Pats. When they finally got going, Denver was in a prevent, giving the underneath passes - that was Edelman's territory and so he caught a few, as did Collie, while DA and AD were moving into the safety brackets.

I've heard no reports from anyone I trust - Gasper and Reiss - to remotely indicate that Brady lost confidence in DA.

If Edelman (if resigned) is in the slot, can DA play on the outside. I don't think he's physical enough to last a season there, nor do i think he's good enough to do that. I think people fail to see that he will be the #4 option for TB next year (behind Edelman, Gronk, Vereen) and who knows if we draft/sign someone or a Dobson breaks out. I don't see DA making an impact next year.

Gronk will be the #1 red zone option and will catch 100 if he can stay healthy (big if). Edelman (if he stays), Amendola, and Dobson (if he can make the jump) will get targeted around 12% of their snaps, just like this year. Vereen is situational.

That's just a prediction - for all we know, Boyce comes in and lights it up next year, or Gonzales un-retires for one shot...

I would love for the Pats to bring in a #2 above those three I listed - but WHO? If Edelman leaves, get Manny Sanders. Otherwise, I think they stand pat at WR.

 

[Ring 6]

The evidence is all circumstantial one way or the other, but I don't think Welker was coming back no matter what. The Patriots refused to give him the salary he deserved for several years, and he and Belichick appear to have had a... falling out, to put it kindly.

Are you suggesting that the team should have paid him more the contract he agreed to in 2007 because he played well, or that they should have paid him more in 2013 to make up for him playing better than his contract in years past?

 

[50-yard-line]

Not to beat dead horse but do you think had New England not signed Amendola before Welker signed with Denver that they could have brought Welker back? To me that seemed like the final straw because New England was able to afford Welker at what Denver is paying him I believe but maybe they wouldn't budge on their offer which seems a bit ridiculous but not out of the question.

Denver offered Welker 2/12, with 8 guaranteed. It looks like it might be 1/6 when you consider their cap hit this year.

New England, according to Kraft, offered him 2 years with 10 guaranteed and incentives up to 16 million. Bob Kraft isn't a liar that I've ever heard - maybe the incentives were unattainable...

Welker didn't want to be here. After watching him this year almost every week (Direct TV), I don't think his presence would have made a huge difference on the team for a number of reasons.

Certainly Welker is not a long-term solution for anyone. is Amendola? Who knows?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Hey look, if Amendola has this type of season again next year then I'll be all for cutting him then. But we can't give up on a guy because he had an injury this year. Bailing on him after just one season is just reactive.

This is exactly how i see it. Injuries are a fact of life in the NFL and if you just start bailing on every player you sing because they get hurt you will never have a good team. Amendola played through a nasty injury that seriously limited his mobility, and those pretending it didn't are simply full of crap imo. he is a much better player than what we saw this season and i fully expect him to show that if he has a healthy season in 2014. if he doesn't then cut ties with him then or give him a minimum deal with incentives for production and playing time.

 

[primetime]

I was asking a question, I have been fortunate enough never to have a groin injury so I was curious if it was an injury that immobilized you like a broken leg, knee blowout or if it was an injury that didn't limit mobility but caused pain when making movements.

Pain while making movements is a limitation on mobility.

Groin pain can be debilitating. It also lingers like nothing else. I played at some of the highest levels of hockey as a goaltender and experienced substantial groin pain. It can really limit your mobility, and many NHL goaltenders have been forced into retirement by chronic groin problems - Dominik Hasek is perhaps the most famous case. This is an accumulation over years rather than an acute trauma like Amendola's, but Jonathan Quick missed nearly 8 weeks to a grade 2 groin sprain this winter. Amendola returned from a grade 2/3 sprain in 3 weeks.

Here's something about a rugby player who suffered a grade 3 sprain:

SHATTERED Canberra star Terry Campese has conceded he won't play again this season after receiving a shocking diagnosis on his groin injury yesterday.

Campese will be sidelined for eight to 12 weeks after scans revealed a grade-three tear in his right adductor. The 26-year-old lasted just eight minutes in his return from off-season knee surgery in the Raiders' loss to North Queensland on Sunday.

Club medical officials were optimistic Campese would be out for only six weeks, before their worst fears were revealed. He now faces another mentally taxing rehabilitation period in a bid to return to his devastating best next season.

On the other hand, Miguel Cabrera played through the postseason this year with a grade 3 groin tear and then went under the knife after the season. I doubt it was comfortable, though, and baseball requires a lot less quick twitch movement.

The only other grade 3 tear my search pulled up was Mike Piazza in 2003, who missed 3 months.

 

[primetime]

Are you suggesting that the team should have paid him more the contract he agreed to in 2007 because he played well, or that they should have paid him more in 2013 to make up for him playing better than his contract in years past?

They should have rewarded him with the long-term contract he wanted in 2012 (or before) that would have kept him in New England through the end of his career, rather than having him play under the franchise tag - a situation he was clearly upset about that ended in exactly the way you would predict.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Pain while making movements is a limitation on mobility.

Groin pain can be debilitating. It also lingers like nothing else. I played at some of the highest levels of hockey as a goaltender and experienced substantial groin pain. It can really limit your mobility, and many NHL goaltenders have been forced into retirement by chronic groin problems - Dominik Hasek is perhaps the most famous case. This is an accumulation over years rather than an acute trauma like Amendola's, but Jonathan Quick missed nearly 8 weeks to a grade 2 groin sprain this winter. Amendola returned from a grade 2/3 sprain in 3 weeks.

Here's something about a rugby player who suffered a grade 3 sprain:



On the other hand, Miguel Cabrera played through the postseason this year with a grade 3 groin tear and then went under the knife after the season. I doubt it was comfortable, though, and baseball requires a lot less quick twitch movement.

The only other grade 3 tear my search pulled up was Mike Piazza in 2003, who missed 3 months.

Amendola was clearly seriously limited by the injury, his game is sharp cuts and quick starts and stops, which is why he was compared to Welker so often. We did not see any of those aspects of his game after the week one game in Buffalo, what we saw instead was a guy running straight line routes who got open occasionally when teams didn't pay enough attention to him. he is a very different player than what we saw and he will show that once he is healthy again.

 

[primetime]

Amendola was clearly seriously limited by the injury, his game is sharp cuts and quick starts and stops, which is why he was compared to Welker so often. We did not see any of those aspects of his game after the week one game in Buffalo, what we saw instead was a guy running straight line routed who got open occasionally when teams didn't pay enough attention to him. he is a very different player than what we saw and he will show that once he is healthy again.

I agree. I've mentioned this before, but I watched a lot of Rams games during Amendola's time there and was consistently impressed. I do have legitimate worries about his ability to remain healthy, but I have the same worries about Gronk and I don't see people advocating his release.

 

[Ring 6]

They should have rewarded him with the long-term contract he wanted in 2012 (or before) that would have kept him in New England through the end of his career, rather than having him play under the franchise tag - a situation he was clearly upset about that ended in exactly the way you would predict.

But they did try to sign him to a longer term contract.
I'm confused by your terminology of 'rewarded'.
Are you saying that if they felt he was worth 6 mill a year for 3 years they should have given him 9 or 10 a year as a Thank You for playing well under his prior contract?
As it turned out, the tag paid him more than the market would have, and the contract the Patriots had offer in 2012 would have paid him more than he ended up getting on the market as well.

 

[edboc]

I agree. I've mentioned this before, but I watched a lot of Rams games during Amendola's time there and was consistently impressed. I do have legitimate worries about his ability to remain healthy, but I have the same worries about Gronk and I don't see people advocating his release.

I think that's because a large receiving TE is in higher demand than a slot receiver, he was drafted by the team, and he's become a larger than life meathead type of fan favorite.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I agree. I've mentioned this before, but I watched a lot of Rams games during Amendola's time there and was consistently impressed. I do have legitimate worries about his ability to remain healthy, but I have the same worries about Gronk and I don't see people advocating his release.

yep, just how i see it.

 

[primetime]

But they did try to sign him to a longer term contract.
I'm confused by your terminology of 'rewarded'.
Are you saying that if they felt he was worth 6 mill a year for 3 years they should have given him 9 or 10 a year as a Thank You for playing well under his prior contract?
As it turned out, the tag paid him more than the market would have, and the contract the Patriots had offer in 2012 would have paid him more than he ended up getting on the market as well.

And in the end he was a Denver Bronco.

 

[Deus Irae]

The criticism, and the calls to cut Amendola, are perfectly valid, and his target percentage, blocking scores, etc... are irrelevant to that, because the reason for his 'low' numbers is precisely the reason many didn't like the move to have him replace Welker. He failed to perform at an acceptable level, even if God himself were to tell us that's only because he missed too many games and, for all the griping that people had about Welker in the last year, Amendola's playoff numbers were a mere 3 catches in 2 games. His last 3 years:

24 games played in out of 48
122 receptions
5 TDs


If Amendola had signed only a one year deal, only the insane would want him back at his contract numbers. His contract just makes that a non-starter. The result is that we are left to hope that next year is his first injury free year

 

[SalemPats]

Gronk will be the #1 red zone option and will catch 100 if he can stay healthy (big if). Edelman (if he stays), Amendola, and Dobson (if he can make the jump) will get targeted around 12% of their snaps, just like this year. Vereen is situational.

That's just a prediction - for all we know, Boyce comes in and lights it up next year, or Gonzales un-retires for one shot...

I would love for the Pats to bring in a #2 above those three I listed - but WHO? If Edelman leaves, get Manny Sanders. Otherwise, I think they stand pat at WR.

-Gronk as the number one receiver and his best route is down the seam
-Edelman (lets say he re-signs) as the number two receiver playing the slot
-Vereen out of the backfield as a pass catching receiver

In the middle of the field we got 3 guys who will get all of the catches. That means we need an outside guy, I just don't think DA can play that role to give us an edge. DA is not physical or quick enough to play on the outside against the teams top corners.

 

[50-yard-line]

-Gronk as the number one receiver and his best route is down the seam
-Edelman (lets say he re-signs) as the number two receiver playing the slot
-Vereen out of the backfield as a pass catching receiver

In the middle of the field we got 3 guys who will get all of the catches. That means we need an outside guy, I just don't think DA can play that role to give us an edge. DA is not physical or quick enough to play on the outside against the teams top corners.

Then they probably won't re-sign Edelman. If you're right, his overlap with Amendola is too great. They'll go for Manny Sanders or someone like that instead.

 

[manxman2601]

The criticism, and the calls to cut Amendola, are perfectly valid, and his target percentage, blocking scores, etc... are irrelevant to that, because the reason for his 'low' numbers is precisely the reason many didn't like the move to have him replace Welker. He failed to perform at an acceptable level, even if God himself were to tell us that's only because he missed too many games and, for all the griping that people had about Welker in the last year, Amendola's playoff numbers were a mere 3 catches in 2 games. His last 3 years:

24 games played in out of 48
122 receptions
5 TDs


If Amendola had signed only a one year deal, only the insane would want him back at his contract numbers. His contract just makes that a non-starter. The result is that we are left to hope that next year is his first injury free year

But he's not on a one year contract. He was signed for the long term and therefore any decisions about Amendola warrant patience and thoughtful consideration, not just "he didn't have any catches in the Championship Game, cut him!".

 

[Ring 6]

And in the end he was a Denver Bronco.

I still don't understand your position.
My main question is do you feel that since he played above his contract from 07-11 that he should have been paid more than his value as a 'reward' or 'makeup' or whatever you want to call it.
I'm not sure 'he ended up a Denver Bronco' really answers anything.

 

[50-yard-line]

The criticism, and the calls to cut Amendola, are perfectly valid, and his target percentage, blocking scores, etc... are irrelevant to that, because the reason for his 'low' numbers is precisely the reason many didn't like the move to have him replace Welker. He failed to perform at an acceptable level, even if God himself were to tell us that's only because he missed too many games and, for all the griping that people had about Welker in the last year, Amendola's playoff numbers were a mere 3 catches in 2 games. His last 3 years:

24 games played in out of 48
122 receptions
5 TDs


If Amendola had signed only a one year deal, only the insane would want him back at his contract numbers. His contract just makes that a non-starter. The result is that we are left to hope that next year is his first injury free year

Your assumption is that Welker stays. I'm not sure I buy that at all, and BB's comments after the AFCCG make me believe it even less. Absent Welker...well, pretend Welker simply was gone, and Amendola's acquisition makes sense.

 

[SalemPats]

Then they probably won't re-sign Edelman. If you're right, his overlap with Amendola is too great. They'll go for Manny Sanders or someone like that instead.

But if we re-sign him, where does DA fit. Edelman had a monster year.

 

[SalemPats]

But he's not on a one year contract. He was signed for the long term and therefore any decisions about Amendola warrant patience and thoughtful consideration, not just "he didn't have any catches in the Championship Game, cut him!".

That's a good point, but the thing that makes BB great, is that no matter salary/contract every player is treated the same. DA will be judged on performance only. That is why we are elite and not the Miami Dolphins