Game Thoughts - As the Saints go marching home with a loss

[Deus Irae]

Perhaps my example of Solder specifically was a poor one. My thought was more with the refusal to run 3x straight from the one yard line on first and goal than it was to choose to pass to any specific player.






When JMcD shook his head as the team came off, I immediately thought that he had to have been pissed about something, so the thought did cross my mind that Brady was the one that checked out of the play--not McDaniels himself calling a run there.

Any questioning or beef that I would have wouldn't necessarily be with Josh himself--partially for the reason(s) that you provided. That said, I think that both situations were muffed up a bit no matter who was doing the choosing.

For the record, I am certainly not one to question McDaniels. I think he is a very good OC, and the chemistry and relationship that he's had with our QB and system are a great fit. To be honest, there's no one I'd rather have than him as the OC. I just found those 2 instances to be a bit odd, considering the circumstances.

The Bengals interior line was dominating the Wendell/Connolly duo, and the Bengals LBs are much better moving forward than they are covering in space, so I don't have an issue with not trying to pound the ball in goal line situations there.

Not referring to you personally, but I think people often confuse "I'd prefer" with "OMG, I can't believe they called that!". I try not to do that, because that's really griping about specific preferences rather than pointing out a legitimate strategy issue. It leads to people complaining that the Patriots didn't run enough when they had 35 rushes to the Saints 26, or complaining that Blount/Bolden are getting too many carries at Ridley's expense when Ridley had 20 carries and Blount/Bolden combined for only 12.

 

[Deus Irae]

BTW........


Hat tip to the OhOh man for today's game.

 

[supafly]

BTW........


Hat tip to the OhOh man for today's game.

It would be huge to see that continue on some level, no matter what the situation with Gronkowski ends up producing. It was great to see a TE targeted that many times again. He doesn't necessarily have to do much, but having that extra option available at times would be big indeed.

1-2 passes in the right scenario would go a long way, I think.

 

[Sparetire]

That was your first mistake

When the INT was thrown, there was still plenty of time left with the timeouts and 2 min warning.

I knew it would at least set up another crucial 3rd down play for the Saints to try and pick up a game ending first down, and Chandler Jones made a really nice play/sack on Brees as he and Sean Payton tried to trick the Pats with a bootleg left on third.

That set up a punt and we received the punt with about 1:13 remaining.

Austin Collie made 2 very key grabs on the last possession, and Thompkins made one hell of a game winning grab, jumping over the defender in the back corner of the EZ to win the game with :05 seconds remaining.

If you really turned it off, you missed something pretty exciting.

I did, my TV timer (yes, my tv is 9823493 yrs old) was on 7 mins on the INT, i was so pissed off i just got up and turned it down. going to sleep all sick and wanna puke and i get up and the first thing i do is logging to the forum and see the title "when the saints go marchin in home with a loss"...

my heart just poped out. My lesson: never give up on your boys, not till the clock hits 00:00 no matter how bumed up you are.

 

[supafly]

I did, my TV timer (yes, my tv is 9823493 yrs old) was on 7 mins on the INT, i was so pissed off i just got up and turned it down. going to sleep all sick and wanna puke and i get up and the first thing i do is logging to the forum and see the title "when the saints go marchin in home with a loss"...

my heart just poped out. My lesson: never give up on your boys, not till the clock hits 00:00 no matter how bumed up you are.

I'm sure that there will be plenty of highlights and wrap ups around the web and on television, although I'm not sure what you get etc.

Either way, I'm sure you can re-watch the final drive for whatever it's worth to you.

 

[Sparetire]

Well, since i posted my last comment i watched it like 10 times.

 

[ausbacker]

The Bengals interior line was dominating the Wendell/Connolly duo, and the Bengals LBs are much better moving forward than they are covering in space, so I don't have an issue with not trying to pound the ball in goal line situations there.

Not referring to you personally, but I think people often confuse "I'd prefer" with "OMG, I can't believe they called that!". I try not to do that, because that's really griping about specific preferences rather than pointing out a legitimate strategy issue. It leads to people complaining that the Patriots didn't run enough when they had 35 rushes to the Saints 26, or complaining that Blount/Bolden are getting too many carries at Ridley's expense when Ridley had 20 carries and Blount/Bolden combined for only 12.

The Patriots ran enough. What I'm sure gripes most people as it does me is going away from what is working well. I acknowledge the Patriots want to spell Ridley but they simply have to ride the hot hand. Too often do they get away from this. If a guy is clearly dominating on the field, keep going to him until they find a way to shut him down.

Ridley gets an extra yard or two on those innocuous inside runs that Bolden and Blount rarely seem to pick up. What was 2nd and 9 becomes 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 6 with Ridley. Given the Patriots penchant for short, sharp passing, that extra yard or two can prove to be golden further into the possession.

 

[manxman2601]

The Patriots ran enough. What I'm sure gripes most people as it does me is going away from what is working well. I acknowledge the Patriots want to spell Ridley but they simply have to ride the hot hand. Too often do they get away from this. If a guy is clearly dominating on the field, keep going to him until they find a way to shut him down.

Ridley gets an extra yard or two on those innocuous inside runs that Bolden and Blount rarely seem to pick up. What was 2nd and 9 becomes 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 6 with Ridley. Given the Patriots penchant for short, sharp passing, that extra yard or two can prove to be golden further into the possession.

I think the debate on whether Bolden or Blount are better than Ridley is pretty much over. Ridley is on another level to those two in my view.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Patriots ran enough. What I'm sure gripes most people as it does me is going away from what is working well. I acknowledge the Patriots want to spell Ridley but they simply have to ride the hot hand. Too often do they get away from this. If a guy is clearly dominating on the field, keep going to him until they find a way to shut him down.

Tired players make mistakes. Ridley's mistakes are fumbles. If they'd run Ridley and Ridley had fumbled, people would be screaming that they should have passed. It comes with the territory of being an O.C., because people think the job's easy while they give the D.C. much more latitude before complaining.

Ridley gets an extra yard or two on those innocuous inside runs that Bolden and Blount rarely seem to pick up. What was 2nd and 9 becomes 2nd and 7 or 2nd and 6 with Ridley. Given the Patriots penchant for short, sharp passing, that extra yard or two can prove to be golden further into the possession.

Ridley gets stopped just like the others do. Ridley's strength is slipping through smaller spaces, but the spaces still have to be there. The one thing the Patriots don't have in the RB stable is a battering ram type of RB.

 

[ausbacker]

Tired players make mistakes. Ridley's mistakes are fumbles. If they'd run Ridley and Ridley had fumbled, people would be screaming that they should have passed. It comes with the territory of being an O.C., because people think the job's easy while they give the D.C. much more latitude before complaining.

I don't subscribe to the Ridley fumbling theory more than any other top echelon Running Back. Frankly, I'm too lazy to look up the comparisons right now, but for mine, it's an overblown issue. It's also useless to talk about what may happen. It's better to focus on what was happening.

Ridley gets stopped just like the others do. Ridley's strength is slipping through smaller spaces, but the spaces still have to be there. The one thing the Patriots don't have in the RB stable is a battering ram type of RB.

I agree that the fortunes of Running Backs are often tired to the performance of the Offensive Line but, to the eye, Ridley runs with more authority and shows far more explosive ability than Bolden and Blount. On the flip side of that comment, Vereen's explosiveness is on another level.

I am very much looking forward to having Vereen back in week 11 to rotate Ridley and Vereen. Bolden and Blount can share the minor details from there.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't subscribe to the Ridley fumbling theory more than any other top echelon Running Back. Frankly, I'm too lazy to look up the comparisons right now, but for mine, it's an overblown issue. It's also useless to talk about what may happen. It's better to focus on what was happening.

Ok, what was happening....

Arrington gets the pick and returns the ball to the New Orleans 20.

Ridley run for 3 yards
Following offsetting penalties, Ridley run for 4 yards
Ridley run for 4 yards
Ridley run for no gain
Bolden run for 5 yards
Bolden run for -1 yard


Patriots settle for the FG
Drive yardage:
Ridley 4 rushes, 11 yards, 2.75 yards per carry
Bolden 2 rushes, 4 yards, 2 yards per carry

 

[ausbacker]

Ok, what was happening....

Arrington gets the pick and returns the ball to the New Orleans 20.

Ridley run for 3 yards
Following offsetting penalties, Ridley run for 4 yards
Ridley run for 4 yards
Ridley run for no gain
Bolden run for 5 yards
Bolden run for -1 yard


Patriots settle for the FG
Drive yardage:
Ridley 4 rushes, 11 yards, 2.75 yards per carry
Bolden 2 rushes, 4 yards, 2 yards per carry

Nice situational cherry picking there Deus. I expected the Patriots to mix up the run game with the rush inside the 20. They didn't.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nice situational cherry picking there Deus. I expected the Patriots to mix up the run game with the rush inside the 20. They didn't.

Ehhh.... the point is that Ridley led running was done, and passing was done, and mixes were done, and none of that works all the time. As I noted in the game thread (I think it was that thread), McDaniels has been the O.C. in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2012. In those 4 years, he's gone to the AFCCG or better in all 3 with Brady under center, and got the Cassel led team to 11 wins. During that time, he's been the O.C. of 2 of the top 5 scoring offenses of all time.

He's not perfect, but he's one of the best O.C.s in the business, and complaining because a particular drive had one fewer run or pass than people wanted isn't really legitimate criticism. It also ignores the fact that Brady is out there calling audibles and changing the calls. The drive I just pointed out was a good example of that, and the announcers caught it. Brady changed a call to one of the one word plays that he'd already checked to a couple of times (a particular Ridley run), and the announcers stated exactly what the play was going to be. Not surprisingly, the Saints snuffed it out and shut down the play. At the end of that drive, people were *****ing about the play calling, when Brady'd audibled multiple times.

 

[manxman2601]

Ehhh.... the point is that Ridley led running was done, and passing was done, and mixes were done, and none of that works all the time. As I noted in the game thread (I think it was that thread), McDaniels has been the O.C. in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2012. In those 4 years, he's gone to the AFCCG or better in all 3 with Brady under center, and got the Cassel led team to 11 wins. During that time, he's been the O.C. of 2 of the top 5 scoring offenses of all time.

He's not perfect, but he's one of the best O.C.s in the business, and complaining because a particular drive had one fewer run or pass than people wanted isn't really legitimate criticism. It also ignores the fact that Brady is out there calling audibles and changing the calls. The drive I just pointed out was a good example of that, and the announcers caught it. Brady changed a call to one of the one word plays that he'd already checked to a couple of times (a particular Ridley run), and the announcers stated exactly what the play was going to be. Not surprisingly, the Saints snuffed it out and shut down the play. At the end of that drive, people were *****ing about the play calling, when Brady'd audibled multiple times.

Yes. I'm not the sharpest tool in the box and even I knew it was going to be an off-tackle run to Ridley....again.

 

[ausbacker]

Ehhh.... the point is that Ridley led running was done, and passing was done, and mixes were done, and none of that works all the time. As I noted in the game thread (I think it was that thread), McDaniels has been the O.C. in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2012. In those 4 years, he's gone to the AFCCG or better in all 3 with Brady under center, and got the Cassel led team to 11 wins. During that time, he's been the O.C. of 2 of the top 5 scoring offenses of all time.

He's not perfect, but he's one of the best O.C.s in the business, and complaining because a particular drive had one fewer run or pass than people wanted isn't really legitimate criticism. It also ignores the fact that Brady is out there calling audibles and changing the calls. The drive I just pointed out was a good example of that, and the announcers caught it. Brady changed a call to one of the one word plays that he'd already checked to a couple of times (a particular Ridley run), and the announcers stated exactly what the play was going to be. Not surprisingly, the Saints snuffed it out and shut down the play. At the end of that drive, people were *****ing about the play calling, when Brady'd audibled multiple times.

I didn't see one RZ jump ball thrown to a 6'3 rookie Wide Receiver with a 35 inch vertical jump. The Patriots didn't exhaust all avenues available to them Deus. Regarding the run you're referencing, the whole world knew it the moment Brady called Jaguar (off the top of my head).

FTR, I agree with your point about Brady and audibles.