Why are people still trashing the defense?

[coolguy]

The goal of a team is not to look pretty in the regular season.
The goal of each and every team is to win the SB.
It is ludicrous to say a team that achieved its ultimate goal was not good because they were not good at a lesser goal.

Do you really think the ravens were better than the 49ers last year? There's a reason it's called any given sunday..

 

[Deus Irae]

The last 3 superbowl champions were mediocre to average during the regular season before they got hot.

In 2010, for example, the Packers won 10 games, and their 6 losses were by a total of 20 points. They never lost by more than 4 points, and 2 of the losses were in overtime. One of those losses (Patriots) came while Rodgers was out and another (Lions) came the week before, in the game where Rodgers got hurt in the first half, and Flynn had to replace him. They finished the season 10th in scoring offense and 2nd in scoring defense.

They were a good team.

 

[coolguy]

In 2010, for example, the Packers won 10 games, and their 6 losses were by a total of 20 points. They never lost by more than 4 points, and 2 of the losses were in overtime. One of those losses (Patriots) came while Rodgers was out and another (Lions) came the week before, in the game where Rodgers got hurt in the first half, and Flynn had to replace him. They finished the season 10th in scoring offense and 2nd in scoring defense.

They were a good team.

Did you see the packers vs bears nfc championship game? rodgers would not have made superbowl if cutler didn't get hurt.


Which goes to my point . Too many fluky things happen in the nfl for me to say that the best team wins every year. The broncos could go 16-0 and could lose in the playoffs if they get the wrong injury, or the the other team gets a fluky play.

 

[Deus Irae]

Did you see the packers vs bears nfc championship game? rodgers would not have made superbowl if cutler didn't get hurt.


Which goes to my point . Too many fluky things happen in the nfl for me to say that the best team wins every year. The broncos could go 16-0 and could lose in the playoffs if they get the wrong injury, or the the other team gets a fluky play.

The 2010 Bears were an 11-5 team and won their division, beating out those same Packers. If the Packers had lost to them, it would have been an 11-5 team against a 12-4 team. It still would have been a good team winning the SB.

Your argument (which was not that the best team doesn't always win) just doesn't survive scrutiny. Hell, since you've fixated on winning the SB, it should be noted that the 2007 Patriots certainly had more playmakers than did the 2007 Giants, yet they lost.

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

As of now, not much reason to trash the defense.

But still not much reason to start "praising" them either, considering who've we played.

They've done their job for sure, not worthy of praise though until we see what they do against quality NFL offenses.

 

[Kontradiction]

Looks like those who thought Wilfork was playing through injury were correct...

Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
Vince Wilfork, Jerod Mayo, Kyle Arrington added to injury report

The Blitz with Jeff Howe & Karen Guregian | Boston Herald

The Patriots defense took a hit on today's injury report.

Vince Wilfork (foot), Jerod Mayo (ankle) and Kyle Arrington (groin) were added to the injury report for the first time this season. Arrington's groin was the reason why he was taken out of Sunday's game in the second half, though he's expected to be ready for the Falcons.

Sebastian Vollmer (foot) was also added to this week's report. Marquice Cole's hamstring returned to the report after being taken off for a week.

Dan Connolly (finger) was the only player removed from the injury report.

 

[coolguy]

Your argument (which was not Hell, since you've fixated on winning the SB, it should be noted that the 2007 Patriots certainly had more playmakers than did the 2007 Giants, yet they lost.

Not on defense.......No one here would say that superbowl wasn't fluky.

The giants got hot and beat the patriots with a few fluke plays.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you really think the ravens were better than the 49ers last year? There's a reason it's called any given sunday..

Well yes they were.
The problem is you are using an incorrect definition of better, emphasizing less important factors over more important ones.
The entire purpose of an NFL team is to win the SB. The best team is the one that achieves that goal. The purpose is not to be the best in October.
If you say the 49ers are better, I'd ask at what? And wonder how all of the parts of your answer add up to more than being better at making the plays that are necessary to achieve the ultimate goal of winning the championship.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not on defense.......

You keep moving the goalposts.

Also, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Samuel.... plenty of playmakers

No one here would say that superbowl wasn't fluky.

Irrelevant to the discussion. The Giants won, which is what you were basing your case on.

The giants got hot and beat the patriots with a few fluke plays.

The Giants beat a team that had gotten worn out with injury and the strain of going for an undefeated season, yet would likely have still lost had the officials not blown the in the grasp and holding non-calls.

 

[Ring 6]

Perhaps, but it is fair to wonder what it means when a team that was one of the worst in the entire NFL last December, as well as another the year before that had a negative point differential and wouldn't even had been a playoff squad in any other division, won championships.

You can't tell me that either of those were intentional, or that they in any way aided their ultimate goals.

That is one of the reasons why I'm not worried about this season. I'm reasonably confident that NE will be a playoff team even if they somehow lose the division to Miami, and the past few years have demonstrated that seeding isn't nearly as meaningful as it used to be.

You are missing my point.
Football teams have a number of goals. They include quality of play, and results. There is a best team at running the ball, stopping the pass, pulling out late wins in the clutch, winning on the road, special teams play, as well as having the best overall season cumulativelty counting every game (ie the team perceived as 'the best'), and winning a championship.
There are different talents and qualities that separate teams in each of those areas. (Staying healthy is also a part. You can't be the best team if you can't field the best team even if people think you are better if you don't have injuries) But whatever the talents and qualities are that determine which team survives and wins the championship are the ones that mean the most.
I think its crazy to consider a team that couldn't get their main objective accomplished on the field better than one that did.

 

[coolguy]

Well yes they were.
The problem is you are using an incorrect definition of better, emphasizing less important factors over more important ones.
The entire purpose of an NFL team is to win the SB. The best team is the one that achieves that goal. The purpose is not to be the best in October.
If you say the 49ers are better, I'd ask at what? And wonder how all of the parts of your answer add up to more than being better at making the plays that are necessary to achieve the ultimate goal of winning the championship.

So one bad game
one bad turnover
one bad injury
one fluke play
and one bad flag can end a great teams season prematurely.

 

[Ring 6]

You keep moving the goalposts.

Also, Seymour, Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, Samuel.... plenty of playmakers



Irrelevant to the discussion. The Giants won, which is what you were basing your case on.



The Giants beat a team that had gotten worn out with injury and the strain of going for an undefeated season, yet would likely have still lost had the officials not blown the in the grasp and holding non-calls.

Those are excuses. They lost, they deserved to lose.

 

[Ring 6]

So one bad game
one bad turnover
one bad injury
one fluke play
and one bad flag can end a great teams season prematurely.

And that makes them not a great team.
The objective is winning a championship.
Results are what matter, not the excuse you use for failure.
Put another way, the best team comes through when everything is on the line and is better than the one that came through more often with less on the line, and couldn't get it done when it mattered.

 

[coolguy]

I think i may be the only boxing/mma fan here


i bet most here think buster douglas was better than mike tyson because he "reached his goal" that night.

 

[coolguy]

And that makes them not a great team.
The objective is winning a championship.
Results are what matter, not the excuse you use for failure.
Put another way, the best team comes through when everything is on the line and is better than the one that came through more often with less on the line, and couldn't get it done when it mattered.

So the best team wins every football game?

 

[Ring 6]

So the best team wins every football game?

I didn't say that, but clearly the best team THAT day wins every game,because the purpose of playing is to win. Hard to convince me the team that lost was better.
Ultimately the goal is to win a championship. You would have to explain to me what accomplishment makes a team better than that.

 

[Ring 6]

I think i may be the only boxing/mma fan here


i bet most here think buster douglas was better than mike tyson because he "reached his goal" that night.

That day he was a better fighter, that is indisputable.
Over a longer range view, he was not.

 

[Oswlek]

You are missing my point.
Football teams have a number of goals. They include quality of play, and results. There is a best team at running the ball, stopping the pass, pulling out late wins in the clutch, winning on the road, special teams play, as well as having the best overall season cumulativelty counting every game (ie the team perceived as 'the best'), and winning a championship.
There are different talents and qualities that separate teams in each of those areas. (Staying healthy is also a part. You can't be the best team if you can't field the best team even if people think you are better if you don't have injuries) But whatever the talents and qualities are that determine which team survives and wins the championship are the ones that mean the most.
I think its crazy to consider a team that couldn't get their main objective accomplished on the field better than one that did.

Sure, but don't you find it interesting that the last two champions entered the playoffs as arguably the worst teams in the entire field, based solely on regular season performance?

 

[SVN]

Bedard: 'You can't get overly excited about the Patriots defense' | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Bedard: 'You can't get overly excited about the Patriots defense' | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

Of course. We are 3 games in and played 3 bad Os. But the pats shut them down. In years pasts bad O and bad QBs would light up this D on a week to wee basis. Those days are over IMO

We are excited about the D..but lets not get overly excited and he is right..now week 8 if they are still top 5..then yes..get overly excited