Bill's walking a dangerous line with DT, DB depth

[Oswlek]

C'mon, man. It can always get worse, and Armstead hasn't even practiced, nevermind played, at the NFL level.

I watched the rookies play, just as you did. The DBs behind the top 3 CBs and McCourty are horrible. Gregory's suitable as a F3/F4, but not as a starter, and the rest of the backups, including the rookies, are garbage right now. Hopefully they'll improve over the course of the season.

I know better than what? That two rookies, both of which the team considered better than Forston this year, one beating him out playing right next to him for a month, might contribute more than Forston did last year? And that one of them, might maybe just outperform Deaderick, who was average last year, at best?

That is hardly unreasonable. And, yes, Armstead is a much better prospect than anyone NE has brought in at DT in a while. He may not pan out, but shrugging him off as just another no-name camp body simply because you haven't seen him strikes me as an unbalanced perspective.

I've already made my displeasure for Gregory clear enough, but that isn't the topic at hand. Plus, I never said that the depth was great, I simply said it is favorable to last year, which is pretty much inarguable. :confused2:

 

[mgteich]

The usual reason for keeping 4 quarterbacks is because you don't have any that are ready to play.

I was gonna say...four QBs and none of them are any good

 

[JackBauer]

The usual reason for keeping 4 quarterbacks is because you don't have any that are ready to play.

Eh. Looking at the Raiders roster, you can count the number of quality players on one hand.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know better than what? That two rookies, both of which the team considered better than Forston this year, one beating him out playing right next to him for a month, might contribute more than Forston did last year? And that one of them, might maybe just outperform Deaderick, who was average last year, at best?

The truth is that the depth on the DL is almost completely unknown, and the depth at the DB spots is a combination of garbage and unknowns. The idea that there's a definite upgrade anywhere (DT, DE, CB, S) over last year is simply false.

Pretending otherwise is nothing more than hopes and prayers. That's fine and all, and every team (and fan base) does a lot of hoping and praying every year, but cracking it out as a sure thing in response to the OP is just not correct.

 

[Oswlek]

The truth is that the depth on the DL is almost completely unknown, and the depth at the DB spots is a combination of garbage and unknowns. The idea that there's a definite upgrade anywhere (DT, DE, CB, S) over last year is simply false.

Pretending otherwise is nothing more than hopes and prayers. That's fine and all, and every team (and fan base) does a lot of hoping and praying every year, but cracking it out as a sure thing in response to the OP is just not correct.

I'm not pretending anything, though, and I don't know why this is so hard to see.

Vellano earned a spot over Forston, who was on the team last year and presumably improved at something in the offseason. Yet, somehow it is unknown whether Joe will provide more than Forston did in 2012? Huh?

I also made it perfectly clear that Deaderick was close to average and that we can't say for sure that anyone is better than him. But we can say with certainty that he didn't leave an unclimbable mountain of production in his wake.

As for the DBs, you are going to have to really explain to me why I should be concerned about the downgrade from Chung to Ryan and Harmon. :confused4:

Everything I'm saying is perfectly reasonable, no prayers needed, TYVM. Stop acting as if anything with even a mildly positive slant is the most outlandish thing you've ever seen.

 

[Deus Irae]

I didn't realize, until now, that the Chiefs had cut Powe. With Daboll having been in KC last season, I wonder if the Patriots will take a look at him if he clears waivers.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not pretending anything, though, and I don't know why this is so hard to see.

Vellano earned a spot over Forston, who was on the team last year and presumably improved at something in the offseason. Yet, somehow it is unknown whether Joe will provide more than Forston did in 2012? Huh? :confused4:

Of course it's unknown whether a rookie UDFA will get it done or not. This is common sense.

I also made it perfectly clear that Deaderick was close to average and that we can't say for sure that anyone is better than him. But we can say with certainty that he didn't leave an unclimbable mountain of production in his wake.

As for the DBs, you are going to have to really explain to me why I should be concerned about the downgrade from Chung to Ryan and Harmon.

Everything I'm saying is perfectly reasonable, no prayers needed, TYVM. Stop acting as if everything with even a mildly positive slant is the most outlandish thing you've ever seen.

You're HOPING for something with essentially nothing to back it up. Others are pointing out there there's no established improvement over the dumpster fires of last season. It's really that simple. And please stop with the Rutgers rookies already. Both have been lousy so far.

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[Oswlek]

Of course it's unknown whether a rookie UDFA will get it done or not. This is common sense.

You're HOPING for something with essentially nothing to back it up. Others are pointing out there there's no established improvement over the dumpster fires of last season. It's really that simple. And please stop with the Rutgers rookies already. Both have been lousy so far.

I am befuddled by this post. I must be doing a terrible job of communicating because it totally misses my point.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not necessarily directly on point, but a couple of observations from Volin:

Just crunched the numbers. #Patriots have most rookies (14) and UDFAs (7) of any NFL team. Saints have 6 UDFAs. Falcons & Rams have 12 & 5

https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/374591520868818944

Patriots currently have 19 players on 53 man roster who entered #NFL as undrafted free agent rookies, including 7 this year

https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/374554826538881024

I asked Belichick about the 14 rookies and if getting younger was by design. "We want to win."

https://twitter.com/BenVolin/status/374566894139092992

 

[AzPatsFan]

I know better than what? That two rookies, both of which the team considered better than Forston this year, one beating him out playing right next to him for a month, might contribute more than Forston did last year? And that one of them, might maybe just outperform Deaderick, who was average last year, at best?

That is hardly unreasonable. And, yes, Armstead is a much better prospect than anyone NE has brought in at DT in a while. He may not pan out, but shrugging him off as just another no-name camp body simply because you haven't seen him strikes me as an unbalanced perspective.

I've already made my displeasure for Gregory clear enough, but that isn't the topic at hand. Plus, I never said that the depth was great, I simply said it is favorable to last year, which is pretty much inarguable. :confused2:

DI's innate conservative pessimism will never have admitted that possibility. Even though the secondary of last year ended up with a 13-3 record...

 

[Deus Irae]

DI's innate conservative pessimism will never have admitted that possibility. Even though the secondary of last year ended up with a 13-3 record...

Given that I'm an optimist but try to look at things realistically in order to find a way to be successful instead of just making assumptions that everything will be alright without preparation and understanding, I thank you for the comedy.

From last year:

No offense to the O.P., but I think it's too early for this (for me personally). I say that because I need to see what the defense is looking like before I can be really confident. I don't see this team winning fewer than 12 games unless Brady gets hurt, but I need to see that defense working before I get a good feel about those last 4 games

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/926858-early-predictions-pats-2012-record.html#post3079605

Originally Posted by patsinthesnow View Post
Deus is leaving a window open for 16-0 !
---------------
My honest homer prediction is 16-0. The Pats survive week 3 @ Ravens and it will happen.

If the defense is good, I think you have to at least think about it. The only 'tough' non-divisional road game is against the Ravens, and that's a prime time game after a home game.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/926858-early-predictions-pats-2012-record.html#post3079623

Yeah, I'm all about the pessimism...

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Any CB or DL gets hurt. We would revert back to giving up 500 yards a game and having to score 30 to win

 

[Sciz]

If Belichick is walking a dangerous line at DB, then I'd hate to have seen what was thought a year ago. Since then, they've added Talib, Ryan, and Harmon, seen Dennard progress nicely, and only lost Chung.

 

[ATippett56]

The areas that look like they've lost depth from last year is OL and DE. I still don't know how the hell Bequette made the roster. :confused4:

Jermaine Cunningham and Justin Francis landed on the injured reserve list.

 

[Oswlek]

Jermaine Cunningham and Justin Francis landed on the injured reserve list.

Francis, I've read, isn't too pleased about his IR status and may no be long for the team. And Jermaine's reads like a formality more than a genuine season ending injury. Plus they both had to be waived, so NE didn't worry about losing them.

It looks more likely that the team just feels more optimistic about Bequette than they did the other two. And I'd love to know why.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Francis, I've read, isn't too pleased about his IR status and may no be long for the team. And Jermaine's reads like a formality more than a genuine season ending injury. Plus they both had to be waived, so NE didn't worry about losing them.

It looks more likely that the team just feels more optimistic about Bequette than they did the other two. And I'd love to know why.

unless Beq has proof that BB hid a certain handgun

It HAS to be something like that.

 

[tonyto3690]

Cmon Tony, I hope you aren't becoming one of those fans who demands an all pro at every position in order to be happy. How quickly you forget that the when the Pats went to the superbowl in 011, Deadrick and Love (an UDFA and 7th round rookie) were the #2 and #3 DT'

The Pats are probably better situated with Kelly and Wilfolk at DT/NT than they have been since Warren and Seymour were in town. Don't forget that beyond all the young kids, Armstead IS coming back thiss year. Another thing to factor in, is (if preseason is any indication) the Pats might be running more 3-4 this season, which requires one less DLman.

Its fair to say the DT's is an area where EXPERIENCED depth is a question, but thinking BB's
"walking a dangerous line" smacks of hyperbole

Absolutely not. I am the one to roast people who complain and have such ridiculously high demands.

But if Dennard misses even one game, we are stuck with Talib (and lets all pray he manages to stay healthy) and Arrington. And then what? Green? Cole? You really want those bums on the field playing significant snaps?

What if Dennard misses 4 games and Talib pulls a hammy? Our #1 CB is Arrington going up against Andre Johnson/D. Thomas.

It doesn't matter if we run a 34 or 43. Tommy and Wilfork are the only guys capable of playing 5tech unless you count Chandler and that's a stretch.

If one of those two go down, in a 43 we're starting some practice squad guy next to Wilfork (and that's completely ignoring when we have to take Wilfork out for a breather and we'll have two guys who have no business on the field trying to stop the run). In a 34 if one of those goes down we have one NT and no DEs.

Running a 34 would require MORE DT/5techs NOT less.


If any of Wilfork/Kelly/Dennard/McCourty/Talib miss anymore than 2 games, we are in serious trouble. If 2 or more of them miss any one game (and it's against a not completely inept team ie. the Jets), we are completely cooked.

 

[mgteich]

I agree.

I would like to see Moore come back. But we are better at the start of this year than at the start of this year compared to last year.

From the beginning of last year, we have also lost Dowling and Moore.

If Belichick is walking a dangerous line at DB, then I'd hate to have seen what was thought a year ago. Since then, they've added Talib, Ryan, and Harmon, seen Dennard progress nicely, and only lost Chung.

 

[tonyto3690]

If Belichick is walking a dangerous line at DB, then I'd hate to have seen what was thought a year ago. Since then, they've added Talib, Ryan, and Harmon, seen Dennard progress nicely, and only lost Chung.

Yes and we saw how great our secondary looked before we added Talib last year.

And we all saw how great our defense looked when Talib went down and had Cole starting. You want that PLUS possibility of Dennard not playing and having an even worse player starting as well?

I for one, would not like to see that for an stretch of the season.