Bill's walking a dangerous line with DT, DB depth

[Brady6]

Right now we have 2 quality DTs.

Right now we have 3 quality CBs, 1 one of which may miss time.

Right now we have 1 quality S, and complete garbage behind him.

Any of those guys go down and we're looking at JAGs starting for us. I for one don't want to have to relive 2011 and seeing the defense give up 40 yard bombs every three plays.

Moves incoming? Or is the roster more or less set?

We aren’t any worse than what we opened last year with, in my opinion it’s probably even better.

2012| 2013

DT
Wilfork | Wilfork
Love| Kelly
Deaderick| Francis
Brace| Vellano

SAF
Chung| McCourty
Gregory| Gregory
T. Wilson| T. Wilson
Ebner| Harmon

CB
McCourty| Talib
Arrington| Dennard
Dowling| Arrington
Moore| Ryan

 

[TyronePoole]

Agreed, but you conveniently left out the remaining relevant part of ausbacker's post:



Is this debatable?

No but it's irrelevant if it doesn't ultimately make a huge difference or can be compensated for in other ways. That's why I left out the latter part, it wasn't about convenience at all.

 

[mb6592]

We aren’t any worse than what we opened last year with, in my opinion it’s probably even better.

2012| 2013

DT
Wilfork | Wilfork
Love| Kelly
Deaderick| Francis
Brace| Vellano

SAF
Chung| McCourty
Gregory| Gregory
T. Wilson| T. Wilson
Ebner| Harmon

CB
McCourty| Talib
Arrington| Dennard
Dowling| Arrington
Moore| Ryan

The point for those of us that are concerned is we haven't seen above avg total defense here in a long, long time and while looking at your breakdown - I shrugged my shoulders. The optimists/fanatics will see a ray of sunshine with the infusion of young (talent?). The wait and see types will be a bit more circumspect.

 

[Patstopia]

The point for those of us that are concerned is we haven't seen above avg total defense here in a long, long time and while looking at your breakdown - I shrugged my shoulders. The optimists/fanatics will see a ray of sunshine with the infusion of young (talent?). The wait and see types will be a bit more circumspect.

So those of us that are optimists are fanatics, but those that see a problem are more rational? Hmmm, now that is certainly an unbiased opinion.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that the situation is better than last year at each of the three positions named.

We should also add Cole/Cole under CB.

We aren’t any worse than what we opened last year with, in my opinion it’s probably even better.

2012| 2013

DT
Wilfork | Wilfork
Love| Kelly
Deaderick| Francis
Brace| Vellano

SAF
Chung| McCourty
Gregory| Gregory
T. Wilson| T. Wilson
Ebner| Harmon

CB
McCourty| Talib
Arrington| Dennard
Dowling| Arrington
Moore| Ryan

 

[Deus Irae]

No matter how people try to dress it up and play pretend, the depth on the line is lousy and the depth at DB is a dumpster fire. Right now, the hope has to be continued health for the starters and tremendous improvement in the next few weeks for the backups.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Bill's walking a dangerous line with DT, DB depth

No matter how people try to dress it up and play pretend, the depth on the line is lousy and the depth at DB is a dumpster fire. Right now, the hope has to be continued health for the starters and tremendous improvement in the next few weeks for the backups.

If you're comparing the secondary to Seattle's and the defensive tackles to Baltimore's then I'd agree but if you're looking at what we have right compared to how we finished last season I would have to disagree.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you're comparing the secondary to Seattle's and the defensive tackles to Baltimore's then I'd agree but if you're looking at what we have right compared to how we finished last season I would have to disagree.

You're welcome to disagree. That won't change what is, though. The backup depth at those spots is either untried or canned retread. Claiming there's definite improvement over last year is just pretending you can project a bunch of rookies before they play a single meaningful game.

 

[mb6592]

So those of us that are optimists are fanatics, but those that see a problem are more rational? Hmmm, now that is certainly an unbiased opinion.

Don't take it the wrong way, it's the essence of being a fan (and I do try, against my nature, to be a better fan).

 

[ivanvamp]

No matter how people try to dress it up and play pretend, the depth on the line is lousy and the depth at DB is a dumpster fire. Right now, the hope has to be continued health for the starters and tremendous improvement in the next few weeks for the backups.

I think the starting D should be significantly improved (Kelly at DT, a full season (hopefully!) of Talib and Dennard, plus further development of Jones and Hightower). However, the depth at a few key spots really is alarming.

And given the track record here in New England on the injury front....that's a cause for concern, no doubt.

 

[Wrath Mania]

No idea why people gave the OP such a hard time. I don't thnk there's any denying how thin this team is across their front.

 

[Oswlek]

Cmon Tony, I hope you aren't becoming one of those fans who demands an all pro at every position in order to be happy. How quickly you forget that the when the Pats went to the superbowl in 011, Deadrick and Love (an UDFA and 7th round rookie) were the #2 and #3 DT'

The Pats are probably better situated with Kelly and Wilfolk at DT/NT than they have been since Warren and Seymour were in town. Don't forget that beyond all the young kids, Armstead IS coming back thiss year. Another thing to factor in, is (if preseason is any indication) the Pats might be running more 3-4 this season, which requires one less DLman.

Its fair to say the DT's is an area where EXPERIENCED depth is a question, but thinking BB's
"walking a dangerous line" smacks of hyperbole

While I agree with your point, Ken, a 3-4 actually requires one more heavy than a 4-3, not one less.

I suspect Tony would be perfectly fine with Love and Deaderick as back ups, since he knows who there are, even though Love is now unemployed and Deaderick was never better than OK.

As for the DBs, I'm a hell of a lot more concerned about who starts at SS than I am about any of the backups.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No matter how people try to dress it up and play pretend, the depth on the line is lousy and the depth at DB is a dumpster fire. Right now, the hope has to be continued health for the starters and tremendous improvement in the next few weeks for the backups.

Every team has to play with fire somewhere. The salary cap pretty much guarantees it. At least the Patriots don't have multiple dumpster fires starting as many teams do.

 

[JackBauer]

Every team has to play with fire somewhere. The salary cap pretty much guarantees it. At least the Patriots don't have multiple dumpster fires starting as many teams do.

The Raiders kept four QBs and two punters, and the Giants kept three safeties and five linebackers.

 

[Oswlek]

You're welcome to disagree. That won't change what is, though. The backup depth at those spots is either untried or canned retread. Claiming there's definite improvement over last year is just pretending you can project a bunch of rookies before they play a single meaningful game.

I think the backup DTs were awful in the preseason, but Vellano did look passable when subbed into the starting group. And I have to admit that I'm intrigued by Francis.

It ain't nearly ideal, but the odds are that it won't be any worse than what Deaderick and Forston brought to the table last year. And it should be much more once Armstead returns.

All that said, I still see DT as an area of focus in next year's draft.

As for the DBs, I don't see how it is possible that they aren't at least equal to last year. They basically subbed out Chung for Harmon and Ryan. :confused2:

The areas that look like they've lost depth from last year is OL and DE. I still don't know how the hell Bequette made the roster. :confused4:

 

[mgteich]

The reality is that the team thinks that Vellano and Francis are both better than Forston, who was active for some of last year. I suspect that we fans would feel better with Forston active. Of course, that is unreasonable.

I think the backup DTs were awful in the preseason, but Vellano did look passable when subbed into the starting group. And I have to admit that I'm intrigued by Francis.

I ain't nearly ideal, but the odds are that it won't be any worse than what Deaderick and Forston brought to the table last year. And it should be much more once Armstead returns.

As for the DBs, I don't see how it is possible that they aren't at least equal to last year. They basically subbed out Chung for Harmon and Ryan. :confused2:

 

[Deus Irae]

I think the backup DTs were awful in the preseason, but Vellano did look passable when subbed into the starting group. And I have to admit that I'm intrigued by Francis.

I ain't nearly ideal, but the odds are that it won't be any worse than what Deaderick and Forston brought to the table last year. And it should be much more once Armstead returns.

It can always get worse, and Armstead hasn't even practiced, nevermind played, at the NFL level.

As for the DBs, I don't see how it is possible that they aren't at least equal to last year. They basically subbed out Chung for Harmon and Ryan. :confused2:

I watched the rookies play, just as you did. The DBs behind the top 3 CBs and McCourty are horrible. Gregory's suitable as a F3/F4, but not as a starter, and the rest of the backups, including the rookies, are garbage right now. Hopefully they'll improve over the course of the season.

 

[manxman2601]

The Raiders kept four QBs and two punters, and the Giants kept three safeties and five linebackers.

Not for long. Down to 3 and 1 now.

 

[mgteich]

The intent is discussion and analysis.

Yes, we are thin compared to some other teams who have better depth.

We hoped to be a bit better. Armstead and Cunningham are unavailable.

We are at least as strong as we were last year with regard to DL depth, and we are likely to add one more player.

No idea why people gave the OP such a hard time. I don't thnk there's any denying how thin this team is across their front.

 

[JackBauer]

Not for long. Down to 3 and 1 now.

I was gonna say...four QBs and none of them are any good