Shane Vereen.....

[BobDigital]

Vereen is not getting the headlines cause other stories are more pressing but he is having a good camp and looks depending. What is working against him in the press is he is one of the options that is proven around here and so no one really cares much when he does thins well.

I prediction he will be a solid weapon for us. I'd guess near 1,000 all purpose yards (rushing and receiving) and half a dozen TDs.

He will fill the valuable role Woodhead did last year and do it well.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Shane Vareen.....

No, Gronkowski is the most scheme diverse player the Patriots can field. You cannot cover him with a LB (speed), will have trouble covering him with a safety (height), and he can block very well in the running game. He poses a serious conundrum to defenses in what they should do.

Vereen is a running back that can run routes and has WR hands, but a smart defense will just go nickel when Vereen is in the game.

Gronk is definitely the better player, but you could make a pretty compelling case for either of them re: versatility.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Shane Vareen.....

You could.

For me, part of being a 3rd down back is being a receiver. For me, this is not "flexibility"; it is simply part of the characteristics of the position. Clearly, Vereen is a fine downfield receiver. What will impress me more is we think that he is great at picking up the blitz, the primary job of a 3rd down back. And yes, the ability to improvise when Brady is in trouble is also important.

For me, being a downfield receiver is not all that important. We can have Edelman line up as a receiver if we need a 4th receiver.

BTW, perhaps we notice Vereen's receiving skills because those skills are better than our other running backs.
=====

Finally, if Vereen is all that folks think he is, then we no longer need Hooman at h-back.

Gronk is definitely the better player, but you could make a pretty compelling case for either of them re: versatility.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Shane Vareen.....

You could.

For me, part of being a 3rd down back is being a receiver. For me, this is not "flexibility"; it is simply part of the characteristics of the position. Clearly, Vereen is a fine downfield receiver. What will impress me more is we think that he is great at picking up the blitz, the primary job of a 3rd down back. And yes, the ability to improvise when Brady is in trouble is also important.

For me, being a downfield receiver is not all that important. We can have Edelman line up as a receiver if we need a 4th receiver.

BTW, perhaps we notice Vereen's receiving skills because those skills are better than our other running backs.
=====

Finally, if Vereen is all that folks think he is, then we no longer need Hooman at h-back.

Vereen is far more versatile than your traditional 3DRB for two reasons:

1. He can run between the tackles. The Pats used him as the goal line back pretty frequently last year, and it wasn't just for versatility - he pounded it in there a few times. Not many 3DRBs can do that.
2. He isn't just a receiving threat coming out of the backfield. He can shift over to WR, credibly run deep routes, and make deep catches over the shoulder. How many 3DRBs can do this?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBMCfFUhEDM

I do want to specifically address this, though:

For me, being a downfield receiver is not all that important. We can have Edelman line up as a receiver if we need a 4th receiver.

I think you're somewhat missing the point here. It isn't just that Vereen can be a downfield threat. It's that he has the versatility to run between the tackles and be a downfield threat. Which means that you can wait for the defense to declare how they're going to defend against him, and react accordingly. If they put a linebacker in there, you shift him out wide and let him run deep routes against defenders who have no business covering him. If they put a cornerback on him, you can hand the ball off to him knowing that you're facing a softer run defense.

In much the same way, if they put a linebacker on Gronk, the Pats will probably audible to a pass and throw to him. If they put a safety on Gronk, then you run behind him.

And that's where it gets really intriguing: defenses are going to have to account for both Gronk and Vereen, and no matter what they do, they're going to have critical matchup issues against one of them. You either come out in a formation that's critically underpowered against the run or one of those guys is being covered by someone who has no business covering him. This is before you even bring other matchup problems to the table, such as Amendola being virtually impossible to cover with one guy or Dobson/Boyce potentially commanding deep safety help.

Edelman, by comparison, is easy to defend in theory: you just stick a corner on him. He doesn't create mismatches. There will literally never be a scenario where he is covered by a linebacker, which is something that happens regularly with Vereen.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Shane Vareen.....

Thank you for the further explanations.

My feeling is that Faulk and Woodhead also ran between the tackles when needed, and when Brady audibled such a play.

Your point with regard to being a short yardage runner is well taken. If Vereen is really such a threat, this does add considerable flexibility.

Vereen is far more versatile than your traditional 3DRB for two reasons:

1. He can run between the tackles. The Pats used him as the goal line back pretty frequently last year, and it wasn't just for versatility - he pounded it in there a few times. Not many 3DRBs can do that.
2. He isn't just a receiving threat coming out of the backfield. He can shift over to WR, credibly run deep routes, and make deep catches over the shoulder. How many 3DRBs can do this?:

Tom Brady passes deep to Shane Vereen for a touchdown - YouTube

I do want to specifically address this, though:



I think you're somewhat missing the point here. It isn't just that Vereen can be a downfield threat. It's that he has the versatility to run between the tackles and be a downfield threat. Which means that you can wait for the defense to declare how they're going to defend against him, and react accordingly. If they put a linebacker in there, you shift him out wide and let him run deep routes against defenders who have no business covering him. If they put a cornerback on him, you can hand the ball off to him knowing that you're facing a softer run defense.

In much the same way, if they put a linebacker on Gronk, the Pats will probably audible to a pass and throw to him. If they put a safety on Gronk, then you run behind him.

And that's where it gets really intriguing: defenses are going to have to account for both Gronk and Vereen, and no matter what they do, they're going to have critical matchup issues against one of them. You either come out in a formation that's critically underpowered against the run or one of those guys is being covered by someone who has no business covering him. This is before you even bring other matchup problems to the table, such as Amendola being virtually impossible to cover with one guy or Dobson/Boyce potentially commanding deep safety help.

Edelman, by comparison, is easy to defend in theory: you just stick a corner on him. He doesn't create mismatches. There will literally never be a scenario where he is covered by a linebacker, which is something that happens regularly with Vereen.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Re: Shane Vareen.....

Vereen is far more versatile than your traditional 3DRB for two reasons:

1. He can run between the tackles. The Pats used him as the goal line back pretty frequently last year, and it wasn't just for versatility - he pounded it in there a few times. Not many 3DRBs can do that.
2. He isn't just a receiving threat coming out of the backfield. He can shift over to WR, credibly run deep routes, and make deep catches over the shoulder. How many 3DRBs can do this?:

Tom Brady passes deep to Shane Vereen for a touchdown - YouTube

I do want to specifically address this, though:



I think you're somewhat missing the point here. It isn't just that Vereen can be a downfield threat. It's that he has the versatility to run between the tackles and be a downfield threat. Which means that you can wait for the defense to declare how they're going to defend against him, and react accordingly. If they put a linebacker in there, you shift him out wide and let him run deep routes against defenders who have no business covering him. If they put a cornerback on him, you can hand the ball off to him knowing that you're facing a softer run defense.

In much the same way, if they put a linebacker on Gronk, the Pats will probably audible to a pass and throw to him. If they put a safety on Gronk, then you run behind him.

And that's where it gets really intriguing: defenses are going to have to account for both Gronk and Vereen, and no matter what they do, they're going to have critical matchup issues against one of them. You either come out in a formation that's critically underpowered against the run or one of those guys is being covered by someone who has no business covering him. This is before you even bring other matchup problems to the table, such as Amendola being virtually impossible to cover with one guy or Dobson/Boyce potentially commanding deep safety help.

Edelman, by comparison, is easy to defend in theory: you just stick a corner on him. He doesn't create mismatches. There will literally never be a scenario where he is covered by a linebacker, which is something that happens regularly with Vereen.

This is outstanding analysis.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

he will be a good asset to this team. But i see Ridley-Blount as 1-2 if Blount has another great game

 

[mgteich]

The question is what you mean as #2. Sure, Blount is the backup for Ridley, our #1, unless one still want Bolden for that job).

Vereen is complete different kind of running back. When Faulk was here, was he the #2 RB? Was Woodhead? Or was the backup starter the #2?

he will be a good asset to this team. But i see Ridley-Blount as 1-2 if Blount has another great game

 

[BradyFTW!]

The question is what you mean as #2. Sure, Blount is the backup for Ridley, our #1, unless one still want Bolden for that job).

Vereen is complete different kind of running back. When Faulk was here, was he the #2 RB? Was Woodhead? Or was the backup starter the #2?

Definitely. Blount/Bolden will be Ridley's primary backup, but Vereen will be significantly more important to the offense than either of them, assuming he stays healthy.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I am very excited and anxious to see Vereen unleashed to the NFL this year. I see matchup nightmare all over this kid.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

i'll say it now...1,350 yards for Ridley this year. Breakout year i think. And that will set up everything else

 

[Coach42]

he will be a good asset to this team. But i see Ridley-Blount as 1-2 if Blount has another great game

Was Blount really great or did he have one great run?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Was Blount really great or did he have one great run?

Even without that run he had a pretty good game

11 carries 101 yards 2TDs


Even without that 51 yard run...he averaged 5 yards a carry

 

[Brady6]

i'll say it now...1,350 yards for Ridley this year. Breakout year i think. And that will set up everything else

B not trying to be a **** but you're referring to Ridley having 87 more yards a breakout season. Ridley already broke out in my opinion he is a top 10 RB, who is very undervalued by the fans and media around here.

The fumbling issues are way overblown in my opinion as well; he has 5 fumbles in 2 seasons that in par with most primary RB's across the league.

 

[BradyFTW!]

i'll say it now...1,350 yards for Ridley this year. Breakout year i think. And that will set up everything else

He already got 1,300 last season. I'm hoping for 1,500+

 

[Fencer]

It's good to be a all world receiving RB but if you can't Block it's all for naught.
Lets just hope Shane Vereen brings Kevin Faulk like Blocking to the table.

We have Bingo.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Shane Vareen.....

Thank you for the further explanations.

My feeling is that Faulk and Woodhead also ran between the tackles when needed, and when Brady audibled such a play.

Your point with regard to being a short yardage runner is well taken. If Vereen is really such a threat, this does add considerable flexibility.

I believe that Vereen is a better between the tackles runner than both those guys (yet to be proven over time).

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

He already got 1,300 last season. I'm hoping for 1,500+

wasn't he in the lower 1.200s? If Blount becomes good again I think Ridley will be saved more or spared for a playoff push. But still a top 10 back. FF rankings have him at like 7-10th to pick. They have him getting about 1,350 yards and 11 TDs

 

[BradyFTW!]

wasn't he in the lower 1.200s? If Blount becomes good again I think Ridley will be saved more or spared for a playoff push. But still a top 10 back. FF rankings have him at like 7-10th to pick. They have him getting about 1,350 yards and 11 TDs

Ended with 1,263; I rounded up

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Even without that run he had a pretty good game

11 carries 101 yards 2TDs


Even without that 51 yard run...he averaged 5 yards a carry

Bolden averaged 5 YPC last year and everyone wants to cut him.