Player Signing Report: Pats sign DT Tommy Kelly

[FoxboroFlyer]

How good, or bad this acquisition is will be determined upon seeing the contract, imo.

Hope there's little, if any guaranteed money.

 

[SteveKiner]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 3m
#Raiders source on Tommy Kelly: Helluva player at limited reps especially if motivated. Played too many reps in Oak (& price will be better)

Decent synopsis of Kelly. I think there is a lot of incorrect info about Kelly in this thread. I have watched almost every game Kelly played the past 4 years(don't ask). When motivated, he is definitely a beast in the passing game. Even last year, he flashed his talent at certain times. The previous couple seasons, he and Seymour teamed up to create a definite interior pass rush. They worked well and complimented each other against the pass. One of his problems this past year is that the Raiders changed DLine coach and DCoordinator and tried to rework their entire DLine scheme. Kelly never seemed to fit in with what the Raiders were trying to do this past year. He wasn't the only one. Seymour was hurt most of the time and when he wasn't hurt he was ineffective. Shaughnessy was coming off a season ending injury and he also never seemed to fit in. Tollefson was brought in to be a top back up and he also struggled. Was it a bad scheme? It's the Raiders so who knows? In the DC Jason Tarver's and coach Terrell Williams defense, Bryant and Houston seemed to thrive in the new scheme. Andre Carter was up and down. Under previous line coach, Mike Wauffle, Kelly was very productive against the pass.
IMO(and just MO, nothing to support this), One of Kelly's biggest problems is he loses focus/motivation, whatever you want to call it. The Pats coaching should help this but I guarantee you that Kelly will find his way into BB's doghouse with his tendency to jump offsides during the most inopportune times. 3rd and 4 etc. He must have done that 3-4 times this past year including twice in one game that I recall. He also tends to lose his head and get personal fouls and other penalties at the worst possible times. Kelly can be overly aggressive to the point he hearts the team. That is another thing that could be lessened/eliminated by getting into a more professional locker room. If he loses focus/motivation I am sure the Pats will make sure he finds his way to the bench/out of town.
As was stated, he can be a helluva player when motivated. To elaborate a little on that, IMO he can be a helluva player when motivated against the pass. Kelly, as big and strong as he is, seems to struggle against the run. I think that is due to the fact that he plays in a one gap mode. He likes to pick a gap and go balls out to shoot that gap. When he is successful, he makes a big play. When the offense schemes for this, he leaves huge gaps for the offense to run through. Even when Kelly and Seymour played well statistically, 2010, 2011 the Raiders were the easiest team to pound right up the middle. That does not fit what the Pats generally want in a DLineman. Apparently the Pats think this is not a deal breaker and they think they can coach him up to their scheme. Hopefully they are right.
Bottom line. I think this is a great signing. Kelly and BB have always had an admiration society for each other's work(although this didn't work to well for the Pats in the Chad Johnson case). Obviously the Pats think they can motivate Kelly and coach him to play in their scheme. Kelly won't have to be the man and play the whole game. They can put him in a position to succeed. Bring him during passing downs. Take him out when he starts to throw a nutty. If BB thinks he is worth bringing in, then I'm all for it. Pure physical talent, Kelly is still a top DT in the league, last years stats aside.

 

[VOODOOZF]

Wouldnt get too excited with this signing. Kelly graded out as the 74th out of 85 defensive tackles last season according to Pro Football Focus.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't know. Dillon showed signs of decline his last year.

Dillon's last year in Cincy saw him have a career low in rushing attempts. Even still, he was ripping off nearly 4 YPC.

And again, we don't know if he was misused in a new system last uear.

I might be wrong, but from what I've been able to gather, his new system last year was a lot more similar to what he had been playing in his entire career. You might want to back off that hypothesis too, as New England's system is that much more different and complicated.

I think you may be underselling it to say it is a Warren type of signing. Warren showed several years of decline and was decent in a limited role with the Pats.

I think it's a lot closer to a Warren type signing than it is to a Moss, Dillon, or Harrison type. Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm wrong. But I don't think I will be. And I think anybody hyping Kelly up to be that type of signing will ultimately end up being very disappointed.

I think Kelly could be far better in a limited and more important role (as a pass rusher).

I would love to be wrong. He and Armstead could be just what the doctor ordered if that were to be the case. I really don't think I am.

Could be wrong, but you are making your evaluation on one year of production and we don't know for sure it was an age or motivation issue that caused his decline.

I saw quite a bit of Kelly last year. I saw him because I have a friend who is a Raiders fan, and I saw him primarily because I was watching Seymour. For a good example, go back and watch their first game against the Broncos. There are plenty of times there where Kelly was absolutely manhandled by a single blocker. That was something that, again, rarely if ever happened in his first number of years in the league (most of which was spent playing for a crap team). That's why I'm more likely to believe that he's declined.

 

[patman52]

I haven't talked about Welker or the Patriots cheapness for a while just because that thread is always on your mind doesn't mean Im any more right or wrong then you Lord Shmessy. Hilarious how your response to me is to bring up stuff that I never said in this thread.

Ooh nice snark there I'm the most clueless person on the board because I don't agree with you. Maybe you should realize everyone is entitled to their opinion.

It just seems like your opinion can be pretty predictable.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Double Post

 

[Brady2Moss]

Hmmm. You should probably read that again. Clearly you didn't SAY that you believe he's been a bum his entire career, but you're acting like it. Go back and read your posts with a shred of objectivity and maybe you'll see it for yourself.

And of course you're not counting on it. I'm not surprised. The team could develop of time machine, sign Reggie White in his prime, and you'd still crap all over it.

In no way was I acting like it, I made it clear he is 1-2 years removed from his great seasons with a sharp decline in production and an objective analysis of that decline would be that he has hit an age wall.

Actually name one young in his prime player that isn't highly, HIGHLY injury prone (Amendola) that this team has brought in this year that I've crapped on. You'll find there are none for 2 reasons 1) I wouldn't crap on a good move for a younger guy after the last few years have shown the "throw a bunch of **** at the wall and see what sticks" method with a bunch of past prime guys hasn't worked 2)The team didn't bring any good, young player entering, in, or just exiting his prime this year. I've been crapping over the fact that the team hasn't had a pass rush, good secondary, or outside receiver for years and still hasn't address the problems that have haunted them for years in the playoffs. I've just come to the realization that until these problems are fixed we aren't going to win a Super Bowl. Sorry that I'm adding some realism to this place

No, what you are being is a **** for your relentless negativity on every move the Pats make.

Its one thing to question this signing, its another to bash it in post after post, while making poor unrelated analogies, and completely ignoring other people's legitimate opinions. So don't give us that crap about not being allowed to have an opposing opinion. Its perfectly fine to think that Tommy Kelly wasn't the best signing. Just back it up with more than the offal you are currently using for reasons
....
I never understand why people automatically assume that any player we sign HAS to play an impact. role. Sometimes a signing is just another signing getting us to 80 Hope for the best and be prepared for the worst. But as of right now, the Pats will seem to have more talent and depth competing for those DL positions this year. More competition means better results. when the final team is rolled out.

I bashed it in 1 post then had to defend myself against a swarm of homers telling me I am clueless, ascribing things I never said to me, or bringing old threads into this discussion. Not post after post. I never acted like he had to make an impact I merely stated some realism that he probably will not be anything like what the folks above me were saying about how he'll be good an we'll have an AWESOME interior line when he gets his head on straight. Sorry I just can't stand the lunacy on this board in regards to the guys we bring in that are mostly over the hill.

I don't agree with that either.

However, the guy who wrote that hasn't been a one note piano the past 3 weeks, repeating his mantra over and over again.

So me being consistent with my opinion is a bad thing? Now that's funny, I wouldn't be saying the same things if the signings weren't all so familiar old guys that will get hurt, not make it out of tc, or just aren't good to make the impact this team needs. Either way just because I have my own opinion doesn't mean you can personally attack me and tell me I don't know who people are.

Why are you here? Seriously? You never have anything positive to say. You're always complaining? Are your panties still in a wad over Moss being traded? Get over it already..

I stated in another thread I'd gladly be positive if I saw the team improving this offseason, sorry that this has done nothing to sway my opinion. Wait so you think randomly attributing Moss love to me will get some other homers to raise the torches with you? When did I ever mention Moss, I made my account in 09 when Moss wasn't a complete douche I wanted him gone in 2010 after his awesome Jets performance in week 2. Get your facts straight.

There is no mob mentality on this board. That is the talk of an incompetent fool.

Is Kelly a long term solution? No. And absolutely no one has said as much. You acting like he's a waste of a roster space without having seen him play shows your own pessimistic bias.

Oh really there is no mob mentality on this board? You yourself have quoted me 3 times to blast me and tell me to run off the boards because I'm not singing the Patriots are the best tune. Patfanken called me a **** for not being happy about this signing and then told me I complained post after post when actually I just responded to the flamer brigade post after post since they all like to gang up on the dissenters. Shmessy, who I believe is a mod and I would think would have a higher maturity than most, actually brings up a thread from a month and a half ago to all but call me an unknowledgeable moron. There are many, many more examples. Kontradiction telling me I would poopoo a move for the best pass rusher ever in his prime because I've crapped on other SPECTACULAR signings like Adrian Wilson and Tommy Kelly as if that makes any freaking sense when I've been asking the team to get some players in there prime instead of washed up people. The entire band of attackers on this board really just spews garbage and attributes opinions to myself that I never have had, but since theres 6 other guys banging the drum with them it means its fact.

Maybe you should learn to read instead of spewing the way you do. Shmessy said nothing about you not being entitled to your opinion. But what people like yourself always EPICALLY FAIL to understand is that, by voicing your opinion, you are then entitled to hear the opinions of others. Whether you like it or not.

Do everyone a favor and follow your own advice instead of whining all the time. It would do yourself a world of good.

Wait this isn't a troll post? You are actually telling me that I act like others aren't entitled to their opinions? I actually have never said anything worse than calling you people homers while your group has called me an idiot, a ****, a douche, and you yourself have told me to not post on this board anymore. Yet I'm the one acting like others can't have an opinion. You are actually an utter joke and incapable of seeing how ironic your garbage post is.

 

[Brady2Moss]

It just seems like your opinion can be pretty predictable.

And how is that a bad thing or make me a "****"? If my opinion 2 months ago is that signing old guys past their primes like we have for years in order to fill holes that have not been filled for years is not going to work, why would signing an old guy, who is past his prime, going to make my opinion any different?

I actually do not even know what you or others who say this mean, should I be wishy washy with my opinions?

 

[signbabybrady]

I hope this doesnt mean we dont get a Vet DE. With Abraham being the top choice.

I like this a lot just the same as I like the A Wilson signing. They both have potential to fill roles as starters on the high end of their potential if they can bounce back to their prime form.

But the more likely case is they both should still be able to fill important roles as interior rusher and as in the box safety and coverage LB(big nickle). And with the youth all over the D this could be a really critical piece to the D turning the corner. And add in Abraham and you add 3 Vet pieces that could really make a difference(but the DE needs to sign first as this could have been in leiu of that).

On the low end there is always the possibility that they are done.

I think with signings like these the low end can be as likely as the high end(with each individual move having unique place on that spectrum) but it is the middle that makes them good moves and a BB staple where he takes a chance on a guy hoping to get a year or two more of their prime a la Moss or Dillon but can usually at least get certain roles out of them and yes occasionally they completely fail like Haynesworth.

 

[Kontradiction]

Did you notice the posts I was responding to? Early in the thread, I was responding to posts comparing him to Haynesworth and calling him a bum not what he could be here in 2013. I talked about 2010 and 2011 without 2012 to show how he wasn't a bum and nothing like Haynesworth who mailed it in after he got paid.

Congratulations for making a "strong" argument by taking my posts out of context and giving them meanings that I never gave to them. BTW, I acknowledged multiple times even early on that last year was not a good year for Kelly.

Please come back to me with a valid counter argument without using cheap tactics like using my quotes out of context. I thought you were better than this. I guess not.

I saw the other posts just fine. Other people did too. I smacked them down myself. That doesn't change the fact that you're overhyping his 2010 + 2011 seasons while simultaneously downplaying his 2012. The fact that you're now getting angry about it and going for a personal potshot in your last sentence lets me know that you're well aware of this, but don't care to admit it.

 

[signbabybrady]

I guarantee you that Kelly will find his way into BB's doghouse with his tendency to jump offsides during the most inopportune times. 3rd and 4 etc. He must have done that 3-4 times this past year including twice in one game that I recall. He also tends to lose his head and get personal fouls and other penalties at the worst possible times.

I can't help but think that is a Raider staple and that the Pats are much more disciplined. If that means the Pats will coach this out of Kelly or that Kelly will in fact get in BBs doghouse I guess we will have to see.


PS: thanks for the nice breakdown.

 

[Froob]

Nice! Not at all surprised. Belichick sounded like he really liked Kelly when they asked him about that big contract Al gave him. I think he could be a huge addition if last year was just a down season and not him falling off the cliff.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I don't think he's going to have a all pro season but I don't understand why anyone would not like this signing, Wilfork is going to have two blockers on him at all times all Kelly has to do is push he's guy back anuff so that the QB cant step up in the pocket and the edge rushers can get to him

 

[Brady2Moss]

I don't think he's going to have a all pro season but I don't understand why anyone would not like this signing, Wilfork is going to have two blockers on him at all times all Kelly has to do is push he's guy back anuff so that the QB cant step up in the pocket and the edge rushers can get to him

As others have pointed out he was unable to push the guy back last year. And saying that's all he has to do is pretty unfair, if it was easy any JAG could do it.

 

[patman52]

And how is that a bad thing or make me a "****"? If my opinion 2 months ago is that signing old guys past their primes like we have for years in order to fill holes that have not been filled for years is not going to work, why would signing an old guy, who is past his prime, going to make my opinion any different?

I actually do not even know what you or others who say this mean, should I be wishy washy with my opinions?

Because there is nothing wrong with signing a player past his prime as long as the compensation is in align with what production you expect to get. Sometimes the pats hit and sometimes they don't.

 

[Ring 6]

If he can get his head out of his ass, straighten up and be ready to ball for a winner, look out. Wilfork-Kelly tandem would devour the inside.

Only downside is that both he and Wilfork are now in their 30s. I still want a young DT to develop.

Armstead....

 

[patsfan-1982]

As others have pointed out he was unable to push the guy back last year. And saying that's all he has to do is pretty unfair, if it was easy any JAG could do it.

we will see what can or can't do when the season starts but IMO this is a good signing the pats need it a pass rushing DT and they signed the 2th best one on the market #1 is Seymour and he will not sign with the pats

 

[Brady2Moss]

Because there is nothing wrong with signing a player past his prime as long as the compensation is in align with what production you expect to get. Sometimes the pats hit and sometimes they don't.

Did I say there was something wrong ? I said it was a meh signing before having to go into my overall opinions of this offseason in general.

 

[bagwell368]

That's simply not true. He's not a bum. For crissakes, at least display a semblance of being fair.

Why should he start now?

 

[Danger Zone]

I love the know-it-alls in here who proclaim the team was crazy to sign a washed up veteran before he even plays a down.

Same were saying similar things about Andre Carter..... Tommy may end up like Haynesworth,or he may be more like Andre Carter.

Give him a chance to see what he has left before saying its a wasted roster move.

And the guy we signed along with Carter, Mark Anderson had a very productive year with us as well.

Its my understanding, albeit a limited one that a DLineman can put up unimpressive numbers and still be considered to be having a productive year. Things like, what you are being asked to do on the DL and who you are rushing alongside with can make a big difference on your "stats".

Sure he