Pats Interested In Mike Wallace (per Miami Herald's Armando Salguero)

[Ring 6]

It's extremely convenient to ignore how many high priced impact players are on our team because they are homegrown and not flashy FA players for his argument.

And a lot of these guys are probably underpaid for what they do, this team has one of the most intelligent front offices in NFL history, if they weren't making so much money the way it is i might feel bad for them for playing on some of their deals.

I also only included players on thier 2nd contracts, so it is truly the same as signing a FA.

 

[Ring 6]

The poster's claim was that BB is not as good at acquiring thirtysomething talent as he was during the 01-04 years. I explained that was not the case.

I was disagreeing with your post, I was adding to it.

 

[Brady2Moss]

That's not what you said. I quoted what you said. You're now moving the goalposts.



First, lumping me in with the homers is about the most ignorant thing you've said so far, and that takes some doing.

Second, you don't seem capable of understanding basic reality, likely because it conflicts with your preformed opinions. Let's try it one more time....

In 2001, the Patriots were gassed. After jumping out to a lead, they were unable to hold that lead. The Rams came back to tie the game with 1:37 left in regulation. Brady had 1:21 to get the ball into field goal range, but it was not the defense that stood firm to win the game. It was a young QB who took an offense that had been held to a field goal in the second half and marched it down the field in the two minute drill. He did it with the passing game, throwing on 8 consecutive downs. He did it throwing to a stiff of a RB (Redmond) and a UFDA type of TE who had caught only 14 passes all season long (Wiggins).

In 2003, the 14-2 Patriots needed another last minute drive to win a shootout, 32-29. The vaunted Patriots defense surrendered over 400 yards of offense to the Panthers, and surrendered the lead with 1:13 left in regulation. It took the Panthers kicking the ball out of bounds, and then 6 straight passes to put the Patriots into scoring position for Vinatieri.

In 2007, the Giants scored the go ahead TD with :39 left on the clock.

In 2011, the Giants scored the go ahead TD with 1:04 on the clock.

In other words, the difference in the games hasn't been the defense, or great receivers. The difference has been

a.) Being tied with the ball at the start of the last drive versus being behind.
b.) More time or mistakes by the opponents in 2001 and 2003.
c.) The pass to Moss being about 6 inches out of reach in 2007
d.) Welker, Hernandez and Branch with key drops in 2011



I don't ignore them. I try to learn from them. The difference between us is that you don't seem capable of doing that, because you ignore the lessons.

"I just want to get some playmakers"..... Moss was the ultimate offensive playmaker in 2007, and Thomas was a quality player that year, as well, yet the team still lost. In 5 Super Bowls, this team has had to score on its last drive to win 4 of them, and they are 2-2. It should come as no surprise that the 2 games where they failed were the 2 games where significant players were injured and limited.

That's all lovely, I'm tired of this discussion they're close but they won't win one until they get a better defense and an outside receiver. If they don't do either I'm sure they will lose again in the playoffs by scoring 20> points.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Thank you fpr clarifying your attitude. It will now be easy for me to just skip your posts.

I'm saddened that we won't be able to continue our "argument" where I present my opinion and you call me a moron.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I was disagreeing with your post, I was adding to it.

I didn't think you were but I wasn't sure.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm saddened that we won't be able to continue our "argument" where I present my opinion and you call me a moron.

I didn't call you a moron. I called your comment moronic, and I stand by that. I attempted to have a reasonable conversation. I find that to be impossiblewith you, so I give up.
If you want to continue to reply to me, you will be taking to yourself.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Brady2Moss think of it this way...

Throughout 01-04 Bill had more young, impact players and veterans entering their professional prime than now. In addition, teams are smarter about the cap than they were back then and the only reason you are seeing more cuts this year is the flat cap.

Back then Wasington and Traylor didn't need to play 60 snaps a game- just roles. Otis, Rodney, Roman were 3 down players because of injuries and cuts of other players on the roster.

I actually think for the most part that Bill has "hit" on the thirtysomethings since the last SB win. Certainly Galloway (38 years old) was a disaster but other guys like Crump, Deltha O'Neil, Seau, Sammy Morris, Gerard Warren, and kinda-sorta Fred Taylor contributed when they played as the expectation was not to play prime-time roles but fill out roster slots for a year or two and produce until the younger talent develops.

I stated earlier that we won't know about our recent success on drafting till 2014 when those players from 2010 and on start to hit their primes and was told it was nonsensical to say such a thing.

I agree the league is smarter now and Bill isn't as successful at picking veterans that work because other teams are doing it too. Bill won't ever change his system though despite the times changing, which is all I've really said in this thread that Bill ain't getting anybody that costs top dollar and it'll probably lead to vets that stink or just aren't good enough to make a huge impact.

Until I see evidence to the contrary my opinion stands.

 

[Brady2Moss]

I didn't call you a moron. I called your comment moronic, and I stand by that. I attempted to have a reasonable conversation. I find that to be impossiblewith you, so I give up.
If you want to continue to reply to me, you will be taking to yourself.

Alright :rocker::rocker:

 

[Deus Irae]

That's all lovely, I'm tired of this discussion they're close but they won't win one until they get a better defense and an outside receiver. If they don't do either I'm sure they will lose again in the playoffs by scoring 20> points.

Again, they'd have won in 2011 if the ball hadn't been dropped, and they lost in 2007 with a "better" defense and an outside receiver.

I've been calling for a middle-deep threat ever since Moss was traded, and I was one of the, if not the, very first to be doing so on this site, so acting as if you're inventing the wheel about that is meaningless on your part. The lack of one has allowed good defenses to compress the field, which has made it tougher for the Patriots to get the kind of deep strikes that can open up a defense. I absolutely agree with you on that, and you should take comfort in the fact that even most of the homers eventually came around to understanding that the need was there.

However, you ignore the fact that the team was a dropped pass in 2011 from winning the SB even without such a threat, and you ignore the fact that a better offense, a better defense, and an elite outside WR lost the 2007 Super Bowl. In other words, they lost in 2007 with precisely what you say is needed to win. The better teams don't always win.

That's why they play the games.

 

[Deus Irae]

I stated earlier that we won't know about our recent success on drafting till 2014 when those players from 2010 and on start to hit their primes and was told it was nonsensical to say such a thing.

I agree the league is smarter now and Bill isn't as successful at picking veterans that work because other teams are doing it too. Bill won't ever change his system though despite the times changing, which is all I've really said in this thread that Bill ain't getting anybody that costs top dollar and it'll probably lead to vets that stink or just aren't good enough to make a huge impact.

Until I see evidence to the contrary my opinion stands.

You've been given the evidence time and again. You've just chosen to ignore it. BTW, Andre Carter was signed at age 32 last year, and he was the team's best pass rusher.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Again, they'd have won in 2011 if the ball hadn't been dropped, and they lost in 2007 with a "better" defense and an outside receiver.

I've been calling for a middle-deep threat ever since Moss was traded, and I was one of the, if not the, very first to be doing so on this site, so acting as if you're inventing the wheel about that is meaningless on your part. The lack of one has allowed good defenses to compress the field, which has made it tougher for the Patriots to get the kind of deep strikes that can open up a defense. I absolutely agree with you on that, and you should take comfort in the fact that even most of the homers eventually came around to understanding that the need was there.

However, you ignore the fact that the team was a dropped pass in 2011 from winning the SB even without such a threat, and you ignore the fact that a better offense, a better defense, and an elite outside WR lost the 2007 Super Bowl. In other words, they lost in 2007 with precisely what you say is needed to win. The better teams don't always win.

That's why they play the games.

I agree 100% they would have won in '11 and 07 was a lot of bad luck. I don't think I'm inventing the wheel and I realize you want a middle-deep threat, apologies some of my posts are replying to you and multiple homers attacking me. You don't really seem to be a homer, the people that sometimes rally along with you are for the most part homers in relation to your responses to me.

My issue is that they have an opportunity to add a few more impact players for Brady's last few years and I would hate to see a parade of ochocincos, haynesworths, and old guys coming off injuries be used to fill the holes that we haven't been able to fill since 07. My biggest issue is with the 2010-2012 Patriots, 07 was a totally different team and was actually what I would like a team to be, only issue with them was the start of the o-line pooping itself in the playoffs.

Again I don't want Wallace or them to spend 12 million on anyone. I want the team next year to have a #1 corner, if they think they can draft a rookie that can play like a #1 corner next year that's fine. I want a real intermediate threat, again if they can draft one fine. Safeties and pass rush also need to be addressed, but in this new NFL with passing through the roof WR and CB are the biggest needs in my opinion. I wouldn't care if they spend $0 on free agents if they had shown some consistent ability to draft a corner or wide receiver the past 5 years. They could use all $25 to extend our good draft picks that are coming up for all I care, just get a #1 CB and WR somehow.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree the league is smarter now and Bill isn't as successful at picking veterans that work because other teams are doing it too. Bill won't ever change his system though despite the times changing, which is all I've really said in this thread that Bill ain't getting anybody that costs top dollar and it'll probably lead to vets that stink or just aren't good enough to make a huge impact.

Until I see evidence to the contrary my opinion stands.

Dont look now but BB has changed his system. Notice that he drafted two LBs/DEs in the 1st round of the playoffs.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You've been given the evidence time and again. You've just chosen to ignore it. BTW, Andre Carter was signed at age 32 last year, and he was the team's best pass rusher.

He hits on a few guys every couple years, but again Carter was gone for the playoffs old guys break down more than young guys, which is why relying on them to plug gapping holes is a risky gamble.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He hits on a few guys every couple years, but again Carter was gone for the playoffs old guys break down more than young guys, which is why relying on them to plug gapping holes is a risky gamble.

He tore his quad on a freak injury. You are reaching.

I also challenge you to name 5 players BB should have signed.

If you do that I will tell you the players that they would not have been able to keep.

I really haven't had a problem with BB's free agent choices (although it seemed to me Boldin would have been an outstanding pickup and I didn't think his contract was that rich for a WR) but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Brady2Moss]

He tore his quad on a freak injury. You are reaching.

I also challenge you to name 5 players BB should have signed.

If you do that I will tell you the players that they would not have been able to keep.

I really haven't had a problem with BB's free agent choices (although it seemed to me Boldin would have been an outstanding pickup and I didn't think his contract was that rich for a WR) but hindsight is 20/20.

I'm not going to go back through years of free agents I just bet you there were options out there. Anyway it's not reaching old guys get injured more than young guys. It's simple biology.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not going to go back through years of free agents I just bet you there were options out there. Anyway it's not reaching old guys get injured more than young guys. It's simple biology.

It's football. Players of all ages get injured. It's simple physics. Just ask young guys like Gronk, Hernandez and Edelman.

 

[JPPT1974]

It is the price tag. As it could be the factor. For any team besides the Pats to sign Wallace!

 

[Brady6]

It is the price tag. As it could be the factor. For any team besides the Pats to sign Wallace!

You look at Wallace 10-12 figure and then you look Julio Jones or AJ Green playing for under 4 and without a doubt you look to the draft, extend early and let a team like the Raiders or Cowboys destroy their payroll on Wallace types.