Pats Interested In Mike Wallace (per Miami Herald's Armando Salguero)

[Brady2Moss]

What are you talking about? The Patriots were #1 in 3rd down conversions.
They led the league by a mile in First downs.
They scored the 3rd most points in NFL history, after scoring the 12th most in history in 2011, and the 10th most in 2010.



What you describe is not what has ever happened.

Regular season stars and post season chumps, aka the early 2000 Colts. No one here should care about the regular season we all know they can score and convert 3rd downs and be unstoppable in the red zone then again.

And actually bargain shopping has always happened the last big time guy they got was Adalius Thomas 6 years ago.

So what are you talking about?

 

[Brady2Moss]

There are 32 teams competing every year for a SB. You make it sound like a moron can win one at will.
You are trashing the way the team is built, yet you are saying they are so good they should have won 3 SBs and no one should care if one of their best players just isn't there. You make no sense. At this point it appears you want to whine, and choose to do so without thinking.

Team is built fine to get to the playoffs with a good seed, but it is merely just one of the pack when it comes playoff time because of some poor drafting and lack of impact players that Bill refuses to spend on in free agency or find a way to draft. Maybe he's figured it out since 2010 by adding better players through the draft, but we won't know till 2014 and beyond when they hit their prime.

It's moronic to get so close and lose the same way and then address the same problems with crappy players. Seems like you wanna hop on Bill's you know what have fun with that. They have a lot of cap room to add a few impact guys, I'll be disappointed if they come away with some scrubs that were hurt last year or are too old that their own teams don't even want them.

I'll just agree to disagree some of you have trouble conversing with others without appearing holier thant thou and insulting others intelligence.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Team is built fine to get to the playoffs with a good seed, but it is merely just one of the pack when it comes playoff time because of some poor drafting and lack of impact players that Bill refuses to spend on in free agency or find a way to draft. Maybe he's figured it out since 2010 by adding better players through the draft, but we won't know till 2014 and beyond when they hit their prime.

It's moronic to get so close and lose the same way and then address the same problems with crappy players. Seems like you wanna hop on Bill's you know what have fun with that. They have a lot of cap room to add a few impact guys, I'll be disappointed if they come away with some scrubs that were hurt last year or are too old that their own teams don't even want them.

I'll just agree to disagree some of you have trouble conversing with others without appearing holier thant thou and insulting others intelligence.

Yeah we're built for the regular season and the 1st divisional game. Problem is the teams we face after that know how to shut Brady down. We need someone that keeps a D honest and flooding the middle of the field. And then we actually need a Friggen D!

 

[Brady2Moss]

Yeah we're built for the regular season and the 1st divisional game. Problem is the teams we face after that know how to shut Brady down. We need someone that keeps a D honest and flooding the middle of the field. And then we actually need a Friggen D!

Defense and a true #1 receiver would be helpful, given the lack of draft picks and the fact that it is hard for a rookie to be dominant in our system we should address some of these needs in free agency with a young impact guy.

My issue that I get crucified for is not believing signing 33 year olds and injured guys is going to get the team over the hump.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Defense and a true #1 receiver would be helpful, given the lack of draft picks and the fact that it is hard for a rookie to be dominant in our system we should address some of these needs in free agency with a young impact guy.

My issue that I get crucified for is not believing signing 33 year olds and injured guys is going to get the team over the hump.

Actually you get crucified because your take on these issues is ********

 

[Deus Irae]

Defense and a true #1 receiver would be helpful, given the lack of draft picks and the fact that it is hard for a rookie to be dominant in our system we should address some of these needs in free agency with a young impact guy.

My issue that I get crucified for is not believing signing 33 year olds and injured guys is going to get the team over the hump.

In 2001:

Otis Smith, who had been added the season before, was 36
Roman Pfifer was added at age 33
Anthony Pleasant was added at age 33
Bryan Cox was added at age 33


In 2003:

Ted Washington was added at age 35

In 2004:

Keith Traylor was added at age 35


So, yes, when you say really ignorant things like

My issue that I get crucified for is not believing signing 33 year olds and injured guys is going to get the team over the hump.

people will call you out for them.

 

[primetime]

Regular season stars and post season chumps, aka the early 2000 Colts. No one here should care about the regular season we all know they can score and convert 3rd downs and be unstoppable in the red zone then again.

And actually bargain shopping has always happened the last big time guy they got was Adalius Thomas 6 years ago.

So what are you talking about?

There isn't an intrinsic difference between the regular season and the postseason, other than that the lose and go home format means that the randomness inherent in a single game is much more keenly felt and there's no way to build a team that's variability proof.

Splashing big on free agents certainly isn't the answer. The last big names they signed on the open market were Thomas and Stallworth. The latter got supplanted by Jabar Gaffney and the former had a great first year and then fell apart. Neither lived up to expectations, and the players that did perform well from that transitional period were guys like Moss and Welker - who they got at bargain prices. All other successful teams have built through the draft and smart use of free agent dollars; there's a reason teams like the Giants, Ravens, and Steelers are regular contenders and teams like the Redskins and Raiders are not.

 

[Ring 6]

Team is built fine to get to the playoffs with a good seed, but it is merely just one of the pack when it comes playoff time

Every team is one of the pack in the playoffs.
There is no such thing as 'built for the regular season'

because of some poor drafting and lack of impact players that Bill refuses to spend on in free agency or find a way to draft.

That is a moronic statement. Sinmple as that.

Maybe he's figured it out since 2010 by adding better players through the draft, but we won't know till 2014 and beyond when they hit their prime.

Again, senseless

It's moronic to get so close and lose the same way and then address the same problems with crappy players.

It has been addressed ad naseum on this board that they haven't lost the same way every time. According to you, they get close with crappy players

Seems like you wanna hop on Bill's you know what have fun with that.

Why would you have to act like a total dooshbag and make a comment like that in the middle of a football conversation? Your lack of self-esteem is your issue, but I will expect an apology if you wish to ever have another discussion. That childish behavior is not worth my time.

They have a lot of cap room to add a few impact guys, I'll be disappointed if they come away with some scrubs that were hurt last year or are too old that their own teams don't even want them.

So you have identifed something you do not want to happen, that has never happened before, and you come here arguing as if it already happened? You need a life.

I'll just agree to disagree some of you have trouble conversing with others without appearing holier thant thou and insulting others intelligence.

If you feel that way it is because your opinion is not as well thought out as others and you feel inferior. You actually made a homosexual insult toward me, and you are talking about the way others conduct themselves?

Have smart thoughts and you won't feel people are talking down to you, or feel the need to make childish insults.
I will wait for that apology if you are man enough to recognize how wrong that was.

 

[Huckleberry1]

My issue that I get crucified for is not believing signing 33 year olds and injured guys is going to get the team over the hump.

Who is 33?

 

[Ring 6]

Regular season stars and post season chumps,

Tom Brady has more playoff wins than any QB in NFL history.
The Patriots have been to 5 SBs and 7 AFCCG in 12 years.
Post season chumps? Are you for real?

aka the early 2000 Colts. No one here should care about the regular season we all know they can score and convert 3rd downs and be unstoppable in the red zone then again.

So we should ignore 17 games and build a team based on 1?

And actually bargain shopping has always happened the last big time guy they got was Adalius Thomas 6 years ago.

Tom Brady
Logan Mankins
Matt Light
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Randy Moss
Wes Welker
Brandon Lloyd
Vince Wilfork
Andre Carter
Fanane
Mayo
Vrabel
Bodden

The Patriots sign as many high priced players as any team, probably more. The fact that they develop their own, and then pay them instead of some guy off the street really makes no difference.

So what are you talking about?

The Patriots have never had, as you suggest, a large amount of cap space and spent it on cheap players.

 

[strngplyr]

Tom Brady
Logan Mankins
Matt Light
Rob Gronkowski
Aaron Hernandez
Randy Moss
Wes Welker
Brandon Lloyd
Vince Wilfork
Andre Carter
Fanane
Mayo
Vrabel
Bodden

The Patriots sign as many high priced players as any team, probably more. The fact that they develop their own, and then pay them instead of some guy off the street really makes no difference.

It's extremely convenient to ignore how many high priced impact players are on our team because they are homegrown and not flashy FA players for his argument.

And a lot of these guys are probably underpaid for what they do, this team has one of the most intelligent front offices in NFL history, if they weren't making so much money the way it is i might feel bad for them for playing on some of their deals.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Every team is one of the pack in the playoffs.
There is no such thing as 'built for the regular season'



That is a moronic statement. Sinmple as that.



Again, senseless


It has been addressed ad naseum on this board that they haven't lost the same way every time. According to you, they get close with crappy players



Why would you have to act like a total dooshbag and make a comment like that in the middle of a football conversation? Your lack of self-esteem is your issue, but I will expect an apology if you wish to ever have another discussion. That childish behavior is not worth my time.



So you have identifed something you do not want to happen, that has never happened before, and you come here arguing as if it already happened? You need a life.


If you feel that way it is because your opinion is not as well thought out as others and you feel inferior. You actually made a homosexual insult toward me, and you are talking about the way others conduct themselves?

Have smart thoughts and you won't feel people are talking down to you, or feel the need to make childish insults.
I will wait for that apology if you are man enough to recognize how wrong that was.

Actually they get close with good players, but always fall short due to WR depth and CB play issues. You can only hide your flaws so much before they get exposed, and every January they do.

On this board it appears if you do not agree with the masses of homers and Bill we trust zealots you're incapable of thought and only the homer crew has honor of well thought out posts. The mob mentality is hilarious.

You can call me a moron but I can't say anything back to you gotcha. I'm not interested in having a discussion with someone who thinks saying "this is moronic" equals disproving a point. Lol at you think you're getting an apology from me because you're a homer, it's hilarious how gravely offended you are after hurling out insults at my intelligence and a supposed lack of a life I have when you have 18,000 posts? I'll apologize if you do, but I don't really care either way sick of having people think a logical response is saying a post is stupid like a 5 year old covering their ears and running around screaming.

Also I didn't mean it in a homosexual manner it's a figure of speech meaning or another way of saying you're a homer that believes Bill is the bestest ever

 

[Brady2Moss]

Actually you get crucified because your take on these issues is ********

My take is bull**** because I don't agree with you, nice argument. You should probably say I post without thinking as well because that will make you more right!

 

[Brady2Moss]

In 2001:

Otis Smith, who had been added the season before, was 36
Roman Pfifer was added at age 33
Anthony Pleasant was added at age 33
Bryan Cox was added at age 33


In 2003:

Ted Washington was added at age 35

In 2004:

Keith Traylor was added at age 35


So, yes, when you say really ignorant things like



people will call you out for them.

As I said Bill hasn't hit on these signings in a way that has resulted in a Lombardi trophy in 8 years. Maybe the league has changed since 2004? Maybe his way of making a team isn't exactly perfect and needs some tweaking?

The only ignorant thing going on here is homers grasping to the results of 01-04 to use as evidence that Bill doing the same type of stuff is going to work in 2013. You ignore the repeated trends and repeated results of these trends. I'm not sure why it is moronic to say I want some impact players to get the team over the hump whatever I already said I don't want Wallace, I just want to get some playmakers.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As I said Bill hasn't hit on these signings in a way that has resulted in a Lombardi trophy in 8 years. Maybe the league has changed since 2004? Maybe his way of making a team isn't exactly perfect and needs some tweaking?

The only ignorant thing going on here is homers grasping to the results of 01-04 to use as evidence that Bill doing the same type of stuff is going to work in 2013. You ignore the repeated trends and repeated results of these trends. I'm not sure why it is moronic to say I want some impact players to get the team over the hump whatever I already said I don't want Wallace, I just want to get some playmakers.

Brady2Moss think of it this way...

Throughout 01-04 Bill had more young, impact players and veterans entering their professional prime than now. In addition, teams are smarter about the cap than they were back then and the only reason you are seeing more cuts this year is the flat cap.

Back then Wasington and Traylor didn't need to play 60 snaps a game- just roles. Otis, Rodney, Roman were 3 down players because of injuries and cuts of other players on the roster.

I actually think for the most part that Bill has "hit" on the thirtysomethings since the last SB win. Certainly Galloway (38 years old) was a disaster but other guys like Crump, Deltha O'Neil, Seau, Sammy Morris, Gerard Warren, and kinda-sorta Fred Taylor contributed when they played as the expectation was not to play prime-time roles but fill out roster slots for a year or two and produce until the younger talent develops.

 

[Ring 6]

Actually they get close with good players, but always fall short due to WR depth and CB play issues. You can only hide your flaws so much before they get exposed, and every January they do.

On this board it appears if you do not agree with the masses of homers and Bill we trust zealots you're incapable of thought and only the homer crew has honor of well thought out posts. The mob mentality is hilarious.

You can call me a moron but I can't say anything back to you gotcha. I'm not interested in having a discussion with someone who thinks saying "this is moronic" equals disproving a point. Lol at you think you're getting an apology from me because you're a homer, it's hilarious how gravely offended you are after hurling out insults at my intelligence and a supposed lack of a life I have when you have 18,000 posts? I'll apologize if you do, but I don't really care either way sick of having people think a logical response is saying a post is stupid like a 5 year old covering their ears and running around screaming.

Also I didn't mean it in a homosexual manner it's a figure of speech meaning or another way of saying you're a homer that believes Bill is the bestest ever

Thank you fpr clarifying your attitude. It will now be easy for me to just skip your posts.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady2Moss think of it this way...

Throughout 01-04 Bill had more young, impact players and veterans entering their professional prime than now. In addition, teams are smarter about the cap than they were back then and the only reason you are seeing more cuts this year is the flat cap.

Back then Wasington and Traylor didn't need to play 60 snaps a game- just roles. Otis, Rodney, Roman were 3 down players because of injuries and cuts of other players on the roster.

I actually think for the most part that Bill has "hit" on the thirtysomethings since the last SB win. Certainly Galloway (38 years old) was a disaster but other guys like Crump, Deltha O'Neil, Seau, Sammy Morris, Gerard Warren, and kinda-sorta Fred Taylor contributed when they played as the expectation was not to play prime-time roles but fill out roster slots for a year or two and produce until the younger talent develops.

We were one play away from 01, 03, 04 ending like 07 and 11. We were one play away from 07 and 11 ending like 01, 03, 04.
To act as if there is some intrinsic difference between the makeup of those 5 teams that caused the difference in that slimmest of all margins is obtuse.

 

[primetime]

Also I didn't mean it in a homosexual manner it's a figure of speech meaning or another way of saying you're a homer that believes Bill is the bestest ever

It's a 'figure of speech' with deeply homophobic undertones. There are other, better ways to say what you meant without resorting to slurs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We were one play away from 01, 03, 04 ending like 07 and 11. We were one play away from 07 and 11 ending like 01, 03, 04.
To act as if there is some intrinsic difference between the makeup of those 5 teams that caused the difference in that slimmest of all margins is obtuse.

The poster's claim was that BB is not as good at acquiring thirtysomething talent as he was during the 01-04 years. I explained that was not the case.

 

[Deus Irae]

As I said Bill hasn't hit on these signings in a way that has resulted in a Lombardi trophy in 8 years. Maybe the league has changed since 2004? Maybe his way of making a team isn't exactly perfect and needs some tweaking?

That's not what you said. I quoted what you said. You're now moving the goalposts.

The only ignorant thing going on here is homers grasping to the results of 01-04 to use as evidence that Bill doing the same type of stuff is going to work in 2013.

First, lumping me in with the homers is silly. They spent the last several years bashing me because of what I was saying was wrong with the team.

Second, let's try it one more time....

In 2001, the Patriots were gassed. After jumping out to a lead, they were unable to hold that lead. The Rams came back to tie the game with 1:37 left in regulation. Brady had 1:21 to get the ball into field goal range, but it was not the defense that stood firm to win the game. It was a young QB who took an offense that had been held to a field goal in the second half and marched it down the field in the two minute drill. He did it with the passing game, throwing on 8 consecutive downs. He did it throwing to a stiff of a RB (Redmond) and a UFDA type of TE who had caught only 14 passes all season long (Wiggins).

In 2003, the 14-2 Patriots needed another last minute drive to win a shootout, 32-29. The vaunted Patriots defense surrendered over 400 yards of offense to the Panthers, and surrendered the lead with 1:13 left in regulation. It took the Panthers kicking the ball out of bounds, and then 6 straight passes to put the Patriots into scoring position for Vinatieri.

In 2007, the Giants scored the go ahead TD with :39 left on the clock.

In 2011, the Giants scored the go ahead TD with 1:04 on the clock.

In other words, the difference in the games hasn't been the defense, or great receivers. The difference has been

a.) Being tied with the ball at the start of the last drive versus being behind
b.) More time or mistakes by the opponents in 2001 and 2003
c.) The pass to Moss being about 6 inches out of reach in 2007
d.) Welker, Hernandez and Branch with key drops late in the 2011 game

You ignore the repeated trends and repeated results of these trends. I'm not sure why it is moronic to say I want some impact players to get the team over the hump whatever I already said I don't want Wallace, I just want to get some playmakers.

I don't ignore them. I try to learn from them. The difference between us is that you don't seem capable of doing that, probably because you ignore the lessons.

"I just want to get some playmakers"..... Moss was the ultimate offensive playmaker in 2007, and Thomas was a quality player that year, as well, yet the team still lost. In 5 Super Bowls, this team has had to score on its last drive to win 4 of them, and they are 2-2. It should come as no surprise that the 2 games where they failed were the 2 games where significant offensive players were injured and limited.