The 2013 Prospect Thread

[Wilfork#75]

If you think Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Network has good sources (and I don't think he'd have got the job if he hadn't), then you'll want to put Shariff Floyd in the top 10 of any mock you do:



https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/301110227321892864


He goes on to say that we shouldn't be surprised if he goes ahead of Lotulelei. Sounds like Floyd's making some money.

I sure hope he is right because I personally don't see all the hype. I know he came on strong at the end of the season but I never saw him as a top DT. I actually turned his Tennessee tape off after about half a dozen plays because he was pathetic against the run. The higher he goes the better the player is he pushes down.

 

[manxman2601]

I sure hope he is right because I personally don't see all the hype. I know he came on strong at the end of the season but I never saw him as a top DT. I actually turned his Tennessee tape off after about half a dozen plays because he was pathetic against the run. The higher he goes the better the player is he pushes down.

Yeah, I don't see it either. But that might just be because I have a bias against DT's I think. Lotulelei and Jesse Williams are the only DT's I'd touch in the first round.

 

[EwanSellars]

manx who do you think the patriots will pick with their first pick at 29?

 

[manxman2601]

manx who do you think the patriots will pick with their first pick at 29?

Hah! I was thinking about starting a thread on that topic, although to be honest, we'd need to wait for FA.

Honest answer is that I just don't know.

WR - Arguably our biggest need but BB has never used a first rounder on a WR. Maybe that's why we've been unsuccessful at getting a draftee to work. This could be the year. If we're taking one in the first, Hopkins, Austin, Patton or Hunter would be the most likely.

DT - Hankins seems to be falling and there could be a cluster of DT's around where we pick. I'm not a fan of taking any of them in the first personally but that might just be persoal bias.

CB - If we don't re-sign Talib, this could be the safest bet. Jonthan Banks and Desmond Trufant and maybe Logan Ryan seem to be the most likely choices. Again I don't like the value when you can pick a Wreh-Wilson, Mcfadden, Alford or Hayden later.

S - Matt Elam, Eric Reid and maybe Johnathan Cyprien look to be the choices. Again I'm not keen on the value personally, particularly as we picked Tavon Wilson in the 2nd last year.

DE - Datone Jones is a pick I'd be very happy with. Less keen on other DE options like Montgomery or Okafor.

OL - Jon Cooper is my favourite prospect and if he falls, I think he's a great fit. Barret Jones is someone I'd accept but it doesn't thrill me. But here's my current surprise bet on our first round pick. Just started to get this feeling about Menelik Watson. Daniel Jeremiah put him in the first round in his most recent mock and he's likely to do well at the combine. He's a fit for what the Pats look for from an OL in terms of his athleticism and he's got a very high ceiling. I really like him as a run blocker, less sure about him pass blocking so maybe he's an OG with RT upside. Or maybe we just draft him to replace Vollmer.

Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying that my current preference based on who's likely available is (in order):

1. J Cooper
2. Datone Jones
3. DeAndre Hopkins
4. Quinton Patton
5. Menelik Watson
6. Tavon Austin

We'll most likely trade down though.

What about you?

 

[EwanSellars]

i agree it also depends on FA my top 2 options would be Jonathan Banks or Johnathan Hankins for the 1st if not trade down to get another 2nd and 3rd or for a 2014 1st and a 4th and 5th rounder this year. I would want someone like Short or Elam in the 2nd but im not sure about the 1st and obviously quinton patton is my binky so him in the 2nd round and id be thrilled. I think its most likely we trade down unless someone great falls into our laps. This off season i hope we can sign desmond bryant and Brian hartline. If we let Talib go i think Banks should be a priority but as of right now those are what i think will happen and i think a trade down is most likely at this point from our 1st round and 3rd round picks

 

[s3antana5757]

I wouldn't be at all shocked if the Pats took Jordan Reed, TE, Florida in the 2nd round. He's going to remind BB of Hernandez. Aaron has even been mentoring the kid from his alma mater. I know it's not really a need, but he could play "WR" with the way the offense works.

 

[Sciz]

I wouldn't be at all shocked if the Pats took Jordan Reed, TE, Florida in the 2nd round. He's going to remind BB of Hernandez. Aaron has even been mentoring the kid from his alma mater. I know it's not really a need, but he could play "WR" with the way the offense works.

That's a little high for my liking, but it's hard to argue with a backup TE pair of Ballard and Reed. He'll probably be gone before the Pats' 3rd and I don't quite like him enough at 62, but he'd definitely be one of my top values in the mid 3rd if the Pats picked up a pick there.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Hah! I was thinking about starting a thread on that topic, although to be honest, we'd need to wait for FA.

Honest answer is that I just don't know.

WR - Arguably our biggest need but BB has never used a first rounder on a WR. Maybe that's why we've been unsuccessful at getting a draftee to work. This could be the year. If we're taking one in the first, Hopkins, Austin, Patton or Hunter would be the most likely.

DT - Hankins seems to be falling and there could be a cluster of DT's around where we pick. I'm not a fan of taking any of them in the first personally but that might just be persoal bias.

CB - If we don't re-sign Talib, this could be the safest bet. Jonthan Banks and Desmond Trufant and maybe Logan Ryan seem to be the most likely choices. Again I don't like the value when you can pick a Wreh-Wilson, Mcfadden, Alford or Hayden later.

S - Matt Elam, Eric Reid and maybe Johnathan Cyprien look to be the choices. Again I'm not keen on the value personally, particularly as we picked Tavon Wilson in the 2nd last year.

DE - Datone Jones is a pick I'd be very happy with. Less keen on other DE options like Montgomery or Okafor.

OL - Jon Cooper is my favourite prospect and if he falls, I think he's a great fit. Barret Jones is someone I'd accept but it doesn't thrill me. But here's my current surprise bet on our first round pick. Just started to get this feeling about Menelik Watson. Daniel Jeremiah put him in the first round in his most recent mock and he's likely to do well at the combine. He's a fit for what the Pats look for from an OL in terms of his athleticism and he's got a very high ceiling. I really like him as a run blocker, less sure about him pass blocking so maybe he's an OG with RT upside. Or maybe we just draft him to replace Vollmer.

Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying that my current preference based on who's likely available is (in order):

1. J Cooper
2. Datone Jones
3. DeAndre Hopkins
4. Quinton Patton
5. Menelik Watson
6. Tavon Austin

We'll most likely trade down though.

What about you?

Steven Ridley and Shane Vereen would be huge beneficiaries of number 1. If they were somehow able to retain Vollmer,stack the right side of the line with Cooper and Gronkowski, I do believe it would be amazing to watch the horses run. From left to right this could be one of the best we've seen. Now imagine adding a fullback that can smash?

 

[manxman2601]

He's only been playing TE for a year and is fairly raw, particularly as a blocker, but I want Nick Kasa. He's Gronk-lite:

Nick Kasa vs Washington State & Arizona State (2012) - YouTube

 

[captain stone]

As a UDFA, then hell yes. Otherwise, we do not have nearly the draft picks to use on a TE
(or RB, QB or ILB) this year. We need all picks to be spent on the OL, DL, WR, OLB, SS & CB.

 

[Kontradiction]

As a UDFA, then hell yes. Otherwise, we do not have nearly the draft picks to use on a TE
(or RB, QB or ILB) this year. We need all picks to be spent on the OL, DL, WR, OLB, SS & CB.

I agree with this. We shouldn't be touching a TE with an actual draft pick. Any draft picks of free agent aquisitions toward skill position players should go to bigger or more athletic (or both) WR's to make the offense more dynamic, both with the two TE's healthy or in the event that one (or both) of them gets injured. I prefer a bigger bodied, more physical receiver, myself. Once Gronk went down, the red zone offense went to Hell in a hand basket.

 

[EwanSellars]

if we trade back from 29 for a 2nd and 3rd and then trade one of our 3rds for a 4th and a 5th id take kasa but with our current picks definitely no but with trade backs yes Chris harper 4th round and Nick kasa 5th round yes please

 

[manxman2601]

As a UDFA, then hell yes. Otherwise, we do not have nearly the draft picks to use on a TE
(or RB, QB or ILB) this year. We need all picks to be spent on the OL, DL, WR, OLB, SS & CB.

I agree with this. We shouldn't be touching a TE with an actual draft pick. Any draft picks of free agent aquisitions toward skill position players should go to bigger or more athletic (or both) WR's to make the offense more dynamic, both with the two TE's healthy or in the event that one (or both) of them gets injured. I prefer a bigger bodied, more physical receiver, myself. Once Gronk went down, the red zone offense went to Hell in a hand basket.

I understand your points but in response, I'd say two things:

1. The later rounds are the draft are not the time to be filling needs. If you're in that position, you're pretty desperate. No late round draft pick is likely to contribute any more initially than a vet minimum FA or what's already on the roster (except perhaps special teams and bottom of the roster depth).

2. A draft isn't for initial roster fulfillment, a draft is for the next five or ten years. It's there to keep the pipeline flowing and if you can pick up high upside very athletic prospects (as I believe Kasa is), then you should jump at it.

That's my draft philosophy anyway.

 

[manxman2601]

if we trade back from 29 for a 2nd and 3rd and then trade one of our 3rds for a 4th and a 5th id take kasa but with our current picks definitely no but with trade backs yes Chris harper 4th round and Nick kasa 5th round yes please

I only envisaged Kasa as a 4th or 5th round pick anyway. Certainly wouldn't be taking him with day one or two picks.

 

[captain stone]

I understand your points, Manx; but for this particular draft, with only 5 picks currently,
with other positions needing an infusion of talented youth, and for a team that is this close,
I feel that Bill needs to select the best available player at a position of need, in every round.

Now, should some of those positions be filled during free agency, or more picks be acquired,
then we can re-open the case for Kasa during the 3rd day.

 

[manxman2601]

Saw it mentioned on twitter that both Eric Fisher and Lane Johnson said that Cornelius Washington was the hardest player to block at the Senior Bowl. Interesting.

 

[Kontradiction]

I understand your points but in response, I'd say two things:

1. The later rounds are the draft are not the time to be filling needs. If you're in that position, you're pretty desperate. No late round draft pick is likely to contribute any more initially than a vet minimum FA or what's already on the roster (except perhaps special teams and bottom of the roster depth).

2. A draft isn't for initial roster fulfillment, a draft is for the next five or ten years. It's there to keep the pipeline flowing and if you can pick up high upside very athletic prospects (as I believe Kasa is), then you should jump at it.

That's my draft philosophy anyway.

That's a fine philosophy, manx, but there are other positions of non or lesser need that can be drafted for. We have two studs signed for the forseeable future to big, long term contracts with competent back-ups. Any skill position investments should be used elsewhere as we're the deepest in the NFL at that position.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's a fine philosophy, manx, but there are other positions of non or lesser need that can be drafted for. We have two studs signed for the forseeable future to big, long term contracts with competent back-ups. Any skill position investments should be used elsewhere as we're the deepest in the NFL at that position.

FWIW, as near as I can tell, BB's main goal in the 6th and 7th rounds seems to be high-upside players, regardless of position (see: Ebner, Edelman, Larsen, Deaderick, Dennard, etc.).

 

[manxman2601]

That's a fine philosophy, manx, but there are other positions of non or lesser need that can be drafted for. We have two studs signed for the forseeable future to big, long term contracts with competent back-ups. Any skill position investments should be used elsewhere as we're the deepest in the NFL at that position.

I'm not convinced about this depth:

Daniel Fells 4 catches in 2012
Michael Hoomanawanui - 5 catches in 2012

In a year where both our starting TE's had significant injuries, our backups couldn't combine for more than 10 catches.

Yes there's Jake Ballard and he's far more interesting. But he's coming off a serious injury, isn't signed long-term and we have no idea how he'll fit in to the system. Considering how important the TE is to our offense, and how many TE's Belichick signed last year (two of whom have been cut), I certainly think there's room to add one or even two more TE's to the roster. My argument is, why not get one who potentially could be a really athletic ox like Gronk?

Looking at the CBS board, there's a lot of good names around where Kasa is scheduled to go (which will obviously change). My favourite QB (Dysert), my favourite S (JJ Wilcox), an OT with lot's of upside, (Fragel) another TE I really like (Juszczyk) and one of my favourite slot receivers (Ace Sanders) are all scheduled to go in that 4-5 round stage at the moment. I would be happy with any of those but with the possible exception of Fragel, I believe Kasa has the highest upside of any.

As I said, I'd be very happy with a Kasa pick but I can understand why others wouldn't. My hope is that we pick him and he ends up easing your concerns

 

[manxman2601]

This is probably not of any direct relevance for the Patriots (unfortunately) but as you may know, I was very high on Ziggy Ansah from a pretty early stage. So it was interesting to see these two tweets from a stat collecting service:

Top Prospect DEs when measuring Sacks/Snap: 1) Ansah 2) Okafor 3) Werner 4) Moore 5) Jordan

https://twitter.com/JPSTATS/status/302608789000052736


And:

Studying DEs, sample group of top prospects came out this way when measuring Pressures/Snap:1) Ansah 2) Mingo 3) Okafor 4) Werner 5) Jordan

https://twitter.com/JPSTATS/status/302607692189536256

This actually surprises me, particularly in relation to Werner and Moore. I don't know the details of the study, but if it is as it states, I don't know how Ansah falls out of the top 10 when his stats backup his athleticism and versatility in this way.