A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Do you guys think Edelman isn't very good or that Welker is irreplaceable? There are a lot of solid WRs in the league these days. I think its absurd to put Welker in a class above Moss, Seymour, Asante and all the other guys we 'couldn't just replace'.

Bringing up Stokley kind of hurts the Welker defense, he is cheaper and 'not as good' but yet still functions in a top offense due to the great QB.

To be fair Welker's the best slot receiver of all time, which I think by definition makes him irreplaceable.

 

[Deus Irae]

Do you guys think Edelman isn't very good or that Welker is irreplaceable? There are a lot of solid WRs in the league these days. I think its absurd to put Welker in a class above Moss, Seymour, Asante and all the other guys we 'couldn't just replace'.

Bringing up Stokley kind of hurts the Welker defense, he is cheaper and 'not as good' but yet still functions in a top offense due to the great QB. Is Brady suddenly inferior to Peyton who elevated average guys with his knowledge and skill?

Ummmm........ You've basically just killed your own argument.

Moss, Seymour Asante....

None were adequately replaced, to the team's detriment.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'll apologize; the post was strong and definitely guilty of holding you accountable for what others have said.

Ivan one of the major WW drum beaters has called Lloyd a bust, labeled him as disappearing, and happily allocated Lloyd's $$$ to WW if need be. Then you also have the "Brandon Lloyd - I dunno..." thread. All of this is immaterial though since none of that is you.

I feel like what Stokley is doing this season doesn't really have a bearing on WW for the exact reasons you stated in the opening of this post. That was the point I was (poorly) trying to drive home, we're comparing the best ever to a good slot WR. No matter what trying to estimate WW's worth in the future is a shot in the dark; you have to look at the longevity of other all time great WRs, heavily used slot guys, and great slot guys. This isn't an easy task and I assume that's the issue we're seeing.

Again sorry for jumping down your throat.

Actually what I said was that Lloyd's YAC was non-exxistent, and while I did support letting him go and paying Welker I acknowledged I was wrong a few posts later when someone pointed out that it would cost them money, not save them some.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Just plug in Edelman, its not the end of the world IMO.

Brady's just a system QB, just plug in Mallett, no big deal...........................


HOF quality players are a dime a dozen, just grab another one off the shelf, it will be fine even if that players has demonstrated they are only back-up material.

 

[ATippett56]

On the possible WW replacement front... Has anyone watched a lot of Bengals games? Thoughts on Andrew Hawkins? Looks like he doesn't have a contract for next season and he could be affordable if you beat the Bengals to the punch.

Andrew Hawkins will be an ERFA.

Andrew Hawkins - Cincinnati Bengals - 2013 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Click view contract details for further information.

2013: Exclusive Rights Free Agent

 

[Ring 6]

Do you guys think Edelman isn't very good or that Welker is irreplaceable? There are a lot of solid WRs in the league these days. I think its absurd to put Welker in a class above Moss, Seymour, Asante and all the other guys we 'couldn't just replace'.

No one is irreplacable. But Welker is a vital part of the team, it terms of production and scheme as well as forcing the defenses hand.
Moss was easily replaced by someone who gave effort. Samuel was not as good as his price, and Seymour was demanding to be severely overpaid, so we traded him while something could be obtained. Welker does not fit any of those defintions.

Bringing up Stokley kind of hurts the Welker defense, he is cheaper and 'not as good' but yet still functions in a top offense due to the great QB. Is Brady suddenly inferior to Peyton who elevated average guys with his knowledge and skill?

Thats like saying we don't need Gronk because the Broncos get by with Tamme.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Lloyd has been pretty much of a bust...

He's been disappearing lately when they have needed him more...

Actually what I said was that Lloyd's YAC was non-exxistent, and while I did support letting him go and paying Welker I acknowledged I was wrong a few posts later when someone pointed out that it would cost them money, not save them some.

Actually you did.

And for good measure here's Deus' response to my post calling you out for saying he was disappearing.

His targets are down an average of about 50% since the Jets game, from just under 9.5 to just over 4.5. You can call it what you want, but he's been scaled back.

Which apparently never happened either...

 

[Deus Irae]

...Which apparently never happened either...

Yes, it did. The numbers are what they are. They also had a talk with Lloyd, per the reports. I was a big proponent of bringing Lloyd in. In fact, I liked him last year:

Lloyd would be an excellent addition and a definite upgrade to the WR corps.



I don't expect to see him joining the Patriots this season, though.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/828986-brandon-lloyd-trading-block-page2.html#post2737762

And here's my offseason wish list:

Re-sign Welker, Koppen, Connolly and Carter

Sign Brandon Lloyd

Add a WR who can fill Branch's role, or be another middle-deep threat

Add 2 DE/OLBs

Add S

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/896147-team-needs-going-into-next-season.html#post2951392


I'm fine and happy with what Lloyd's been. He was #2 on my WR wish list behind the (admitted) pipe dream of Mike Wallace, and he's been growing into the role of secondary receiver who works the middle-deep. But let's not pretend that he didn't have some issues working into things, particularly when he was being used at the primary option rather than a secondary one.

 

[ATippett56]

Bringing up Stokley kind of hurts the Welker defense, he is cheaper and 'not as good' but yet still functions in a top offense due to the great QB. Is Brady suddenly inferior to Peyton who elevated average guys with his knowledge and skill?

What a bunch of baloney.

The New England Patriots brought back former wide receivers Jabar Gaffney and Donte Stallworth during the off-season. The final regular season production is denoted below:

Jabar Gaffney - 0 receptions
Donte Stallworth - 1 reception

Both Gaffney and Stallworth are younger than Stokley.

 

[supafly]

Edelman can probably play it, but he showed he has use on the outside

Setting aside the most obvious choice of talent level/experience etc, my two biggest concerns with trying to replace Welker with Edelman would be the lost chemistry with Brady/Welker, and the fact that Edelman has not really proven himself to be very durable so far.

I will agree with the notion that "Edelman can probably play it," although there would certainly be some downside to that along with lost production, just due to the talent level alone. When you add in the injury concerns to a position that Belichick himself admitted that "Welker gets blown up pretty good several times a game," (paraphrasing) there becomes a big question as to how effectively Edelman would be able to play it.

I do agree with you, I think that Edelman has some niches that he fills nicely, and is still being developed and worked on. I think that he does some things well, and could even continue to improve more on the outside. It would seem that they recognize something there, and were attempting to continue to bring it out. Of course there is the ST effectiveness, the trick plays, and the more shallow routes that he and Brady had been working on together since last offseason.

I think Edelman has a role here, and I think he stays, but I also don't want to fall into the trap that he would be staying to "replace" Welker or his production, just due to that being nearly impossible and the fact that Belichick seems to like some of the other qualities about him as a football player.

The greatest thing about Welker to me is his toughness, he has to be one of the toughest SOB's that has played in awhile...On top of that, Brady really likes having him here and appreciates the fact that he knows where he's going to be pretty much all the time. And of course he continues to produce at a top level.

I'm all for giving Welker a nice contract within reason. My initial suggestion was 2/20 just due to the fact that I was leery of the front office's hints that they may not want to give him too long term of a deal. If they are good with 3/30, then all the better. He deserves it and should be retained as the #1 priority--clearly.

 

[aluminum seats]

There's no question he's been Brady's "go to" guy this year. Those 174 targets prove that. But tell me Sup, if Gronk, Hernandez and Edelman had been healthy all year, don't you think that that number would have been lower.

Couple of things wrong w/this. First, saying Welker's been Brady's go-to guy "this year" misses the fact he's been Brady's go-to guy for Brady for several years now.

Second, referencing the other guys being injured emphasizes the fact that Welker hasn't been. Unless the guy gets completely messed up, he's out there, playing, and producing.

 

[aluminum seats]

Just plug in Edelman

Come on. Stop.

 

[ATippett56]

I'm all for giving Welker a nice contract within reason. My initial suggestion was 2/20 just due to the fact that I was leery of the front office's hints that they may not want to give him too long term of a deal. If they are good with 3/30, then all the better. He deserves it and should be retained as the #1 priority--clearly.

What posters fail to realize that the New England Patriots need to re-sign both Welker and Edelman. Julian Edelman provides value as the New England Patriots primary punt returner and special teams contributor on the kick-off coverage unit.

The final wide receiver production during the 2012 NFL season for the New England Patriots wide receivers acquired since March 2012:

Anthony Gonzalez - 0 receptions
Jabar Gaffney - 0 receptions
Donte Stallworth - 1 reception
Jeremy Ebert - 0 receptions
Greg Salas - 0 receptions
Kamar Aiken - 0 receptions

Meanwhile, the decline of wide receiver Deion Branch has become quite evident this season.

Deion Branch NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[DocHoliday]

What posters fail to realize that the New England Patriots need to re-sign both Welker and Edelman. Julian Edelman provides value as the New England Patriots primary punt returner and special teams contributor on the kick-off coverage unit.

The final wide receiver production during the 2012 NFL season for the New England Patriots wide receivers acquired since March 2012:

Anthony Gonzalez - 0 receptions
Jabar Gaffney - 0 receptions
Donte Stallworth - 1 reception
Jeremy Ebert - 0 receptions
Greg Salas - 0 receptions
Kamar Aiken - 0 receptions

Meanwhile, the decline of wide receiver Deion Branch has become quite evident this season.

Deion Branch NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Also another overlooked part of Edelman's value - he plays the option type QBs on the scout team.

And his ability to backup in the slot AND the outside? Yes please.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Actually you did.

And for good measure here's Deus' response to my post calling you out for saying he was disappearing.



Which apparently never happened either...

His YAC, is non-existent, and he was definteley disappearing when I made that comment as he had done next to nothing the previous 4 games. "Somewhat of a bust" was an overstatement as he has had a decent year but not what we had hoped for in terms of big plays, and as I said before I would release him if it helped them pay welker but since it won't it make s no sense.

 

[aluminum seats]

question to all Welker fans here.

how much is too much to resign him?

Don't know if anyone answered this....

How much is the salary cap again next year? Whatever it is, just give him that.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Don't know if anyone answered this....

How much is the salary cap again next year? Whatever it is, just give him that.

It has been answered repeatedly but acknowledging that doesn't work for their "They can't just write him a blank check" meme so they just continue to act as if that is actually what people have suggested. 3-30/4-40 are the higher ends of the deals proposed, and not one person has been able to produce any logical argument against them.


One thing is certain however, and this is that Shane Vereen can easily replace julian Edelman, so there's an extra 3 million a year to pay Welker.

 

[Welkerstache]

It has been answered repeatedly but acknowledging that doesn't work for their "They can't just write him a blank check" meme so they just continue to act as if that is actually what people have suggested. 3-30/4-40 are the higher ends of the deals proposed, and not one person has been able to produce any logical argument against them.


One thing is certain however, and this is that Shane Vereen can easily replace julian Edelman, so there's an extra 3 million a year to pay Welker.

Exactly. Just plug in Vereen.

 

[DocHoliday]

One thing is certain however, and this is that Shane Vereen can easily replace julian Edelman, so there's an extra 3 million a year to pay Welker.

Don't be ridiculous. I know you're mad at Edelman because he poses a threat to Welker but that has to be one of the more ridiculous things I've read all week.

Vereen shows up one game and now he can replace one of our legitimate new WRs? Please.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

As far as Edelman,I think he succeeds because he is with this team who has a QB who is perfect for him,if he goes elsewhere he might end up as a ST only,if Edelman wants to have a decent long career,he'll re-sign and stay here.

As far as Welker goes,I would be more pissed to see them let him walk than when they lost Seymour,Law,Branch,Samuel or Milloy to contract issues