Message To All The McCourty Haters

[scout]

He got burn't on the one touchdown/interference, but does anyone have another incident for this game? Was he covering Thomas all game. One of Manning's sacks was a cover sack. How many points did he give up against Manning?

 

[smg93]

He got burn't on the one touchdown/interference, but does anyone have another incident for this game? Was he covering Thomas all game. One of Manning's sacks was a cover sack. How many points did he give up against Manning?

I'll try and watch the replay and look for it but he got burned more than once by not turning around. It's frustrating because he absolutely has the physical talent to be in position for the most part but he just doesn't want to look for the ball for some reason.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I'll try and watch the replay and look for it but he got burned more than once by not turning around. It's frustrating because he absolutely has the physical talent to be in position for the most part but he just doesn't want to look for the ball for some reason.

Hit It Right On! I've been sayin this since last year. He just NEVER looks back to locate'da ball. If he would he'd be in position for makin BIG plays at BIG moments at least to break it up let alone more INTs. Refs are all over it and he will never give'm a benefit of a doubt. Frustrating!

 

[UK_Pat37]

Don't know what people expectedon the Decker TD. Played perfect technique. Had he turned his head he'd never have gotten his hips around and batted that ball.

You do realise that sometimes you can credit another team with a good play. Great throw and an even greater adjustment.

As for the deep ball...it's been a worrying part of his game for a while now...but every player has a weakness and every players had strengths. Unfortunately people hold his weaknesses over him far too much. That's fans and media for you. The were concerns about him in man against the deep ball coming out of college.

No excuse on the PI though...terrible play.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Message To All The McCourty Haters.....

Ya'll are right....McCourtey sucks.

Can the guy EVER turn around to look for a FOOTBALL flying through the air?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

There were obviously some bad plays yesterday from McCourty. There were some bad plays from Moore as well, and Ridley, and the OL. But we seem obsessed with the corners, specifically McCourty.

I'm not saying last night was a great game for McCourty, and it may be a poor performance overall. But to place blame on one or two players for a loss, or to judge an entire career by one or two bad games is a ridiculous oversimplification for such a complicated game. Imagine if Ridley's fumble had led to another TD. The many good things he did last night would be minimized by one mistake. What if Spikes hadn't forced the fumble before the half last week? There'd be all sorts of hate for Welker's fumble that gave the Bills a two-score lead at the half, which may have changed the tone of that second half and we could easily be 1-3, as many fans had already resigned themselves to.

The secondary struggled last night, no doubt about it. Part of that is covering an extremely talented WR with a HOF QB throwing to him. Part of it was poor technique at times. And part of it was lack of help.

On the first drive when Thomas blew by Moore, it seems Wilson should have been there to help but got sucked up by the underneath routes. Moore was clearly beaten by quite a bit, but part of that may have been his expectation of help over the top. We don't know for sure, but while watching the game, it looks like the blame is on Moore alone. And if he hadn't caught up to force the fumble and the Broncos scored first, would we break out the pitchforks and torches for Moore too?

The PI call was just a bad play by McCourty. Everyone is obsessing about him not turning his head but I was more disappointed that he was beat by so much. But the TD he gave up was a perfect throw, and he was also in really good position on the long completion to Thomas in the 4th quarter on 4th and 1. The ball just happened to be incredibly underthrown and McCourty was playing ahead of Thomas (no safety help), but with a good pass, he's in good position. Of course nobody cares because Thomas picked up a big chunk of yardage on 4th down on McCourty so McCourty sucks.

And it may just be that some players are tough match-ups for our defensive backs. Light was a great left tackle but struggled with speed rushers. Koppen was very consistent, but had trouble with oversized tackles. BB even touched on it when talking about how Champ Bailey was one of the few corners who could cover all different types of receivers.

And for all the flack our secondary is going to get, it's worth noting that the #3 and #5 defenses in the NFL (Houston and Pittsburgh) also gave up a lot of passing yards to Peyton Manning. Manning completed 73% of his passes for 253 yards and 2 TDs against Pittsburgh. He struggled a bit more against Houston with 50% completion, but still threw for 330 yards and 2 TDs. Peyton Manning is a pretty good QB who has thrown for a lot of yards against better defenses than ours.

Absolutely, we can improve, and we need to. It's only week 5, and we have a long way to go especially with so many young players contributing. And that applies to every area of the team, including the offense which dominated for 3 quarters and went quiet in the 4th, allowing Manning to get the ball back relatively quickly several times. It goes for the defense, which held Manning to 144 passing yards in the first 7 drives but gave up 201 over the final 4 drives. But again, it's only week 5, and it's hardly the time to start writing anyone off after a few bad plays.

 

[jarnhestur]

This season the most glaring weakness has been locating the ball, and I don't think there's much room for argument there. Still, he's playing well overall and I think he just needs to get more comfortable. He has skills, he just needs put it all together.

Also, the pass rush hasn't been very consistent and that's leaving the corners out to dry longer.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Belichick was specifically asked about corners turning around to play the ball on WEEI yesterday. His response seems to validate what AWTE posted about the trail techniques they are taught and coached to play to here. Of course corners have been trying to tell their critics here that since EHIII. No one listens. If Bill had a problem with the way these guys play he'd bench them. And forget about allowing them to be named captains. EHIII was a starting corner until traded, and that was due mostly to durability concerns vs. impending contract demands. Ellis was a playmaker (we've yet to replace) on ST and in the secondary, but he was also the victim of zebra bias as they often made phantom contact calls on him because in the process of breaking up passes he didn't often get his head around. But the rule doesn't state you have to absent contact.

I think I understand why this technique is stressed. However it does seem as if OC's do as well and are taking their shots rather than the alternative coverage sack or throwaway based on the liklihood they will get the call. So some slight adaptation might be in order as a result of self scouting. But again, that's up to Bill. The fastest way for the player to get benched here is to not play to his technique and while getting burnt in the process of blowing coverage. One of the worst defeats this team ever suffered was in large part the result of Asante Samuel looking for the ball and allowing a receiver who was shortly for the street to uncover and drift into the middle of the field where a scrambling QB was able to find him for a once in a career helmet catch.

Q: On the pass interference calls when it doesn’t look like McCourty is turning his head back to look at the ball, do you believe that’s why the officials are throwing those flags?

A: What the rule is, is that if you’re looking at the ball and there is contact, it’s not a foul, unless you’re grabbing the guy or obviously flagrantly doing something. If you’re not looking at the ball, and there is contact, then it is a foul. The rule is pretty cut and dried.

Q: It seems to have happened a few times with McCourty. Is that something? It seems like he’s stride for stride with his guy, hip to hip, and then he just doesn’t turn on it. There have been some negative plays. Is that something he has to do right now – turn on that ball?

A: Well, you have to be careful. It’s fine if the ball is in the air and you turn. That’s great. But if the ball is not in the air, and you turn, and then the receiver sees you turn and goes in the other direction and uncovers, then you don’t have the guy covered. It’s a technique thing. There are different situations that the right thing to do sometimes is to look for the ball and sometimes it isn’t to look for the ball.

Q: How do you guys teach it?

A: There’s a lot of different situations. We talk about those. It isn’t about looking or not looking for the ball. If you don’t look at the ball, then you have to play the receiver’s hands and knock the ball out when the receiver tries to catch it. If you’re looking at the ball, then you play the ball -- and hopefully the ball is in the air when you look at it. Because if you’re looking at it and the ball isn’t in the air, a good receiver will just uncover. As soon as you turn your back on him, he just goes in the other direction.

Defensive backs & turning for ball - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick was specifically asked about corners turning around to play the ball on WEEI yesterday. His response seems to validate what AWTE posted about the trail techniques they are taught and coached to play to here. Of course corners have been trying to tell their critics here that since EHIII. No one listens. If Bill had a problem with the way these guys play he'd bench them. And forget about allowing them to be named captains. EHIII was a starting corner until traded, and that was due mostly to durability concerns vs. impending contract demands. Ellis was a playmaker (we've yet to replace) on ST and in the secondary, but he was also the victim of zebra bias as they often made phantom contact calls on him because in the process of breaking up passes he didn't often get his head around. But the rule doesn't state you have to absent contact.

I think I understand why this technique is stressed. However it does seem as if OC's do as well and are taking their shots rather than the alternative coverage sack or throwaway based on the liklihood they will get the call. So some slight adaptation might be in order as a result of self scouting. But again, that's up to Bill. The fastest way for the player to get benched here is to not play to his technique and while getting burnt in the process of blowing coverage. One of the worst defeats this team ever suffered was in large part the result of Asante Samuel looking for the ball and allowing a receiver who was shortly for the street to uncover and drift into the middle of the field where a scrambling QB was able to find him for a once in a career helmet catch.



Defensive backs & turning for ball - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Yeah, I never get the whole killing the CBs for not turning around thing. Sometimes you play the ball and others you play the receiver. Whether McCourty or any other CB should have been playing the ball vs. the receiver is open to interpretation, but it is clear that he shouldn't be turning for the ball on every play.

 

[everlong]

The next three games are against three pathetic passing offenses

Seattle 32nd 163 YPG
Jets 28th 210 YPG
St Louis 29th 204 YPG

I hope\expect the passing numbers to improve during this three game stretch but really they need to be able to shut this level of competition down while still being able to stop the run.

If you're one of these teams I would chuck it deep off of play action early and often.

 

[everlong]

Yeah, I never get the whole killing the CBs for not turning around thing. Sometimes you play the ball and others you play the receiver. Whether McCourty or any other CB should have been playing the ball vs. the receiver is open to interpretation, but it is clear that he shouldn't be turning for the ball on every play.

I think some people have become myopic seeing this as the only issue with the secondary but the problem is McCourty has basically tackled the receivers a few times without ever trying to turn his head. He looks panicked in these situations which also doesn't help. Thus people pile on.

 

[RodThePat]

The next three games are against three pathetic passing offenses

Seattle 32nd 163 YPG
Jets 28th 210 YPG
St Louis 29th 204 YPG

I hope\expect the passing numbers to improve during this three game stretch but really they need to be able to shut this level of competition down while still being able to stop the run.

If you're one of these teams I would chuck it deep off of play action early and often.

You just know the secondary will perform adequately against this three horrible passing offenses, and we'll have a lot of people coming here saying the doubters should be eating crow, and that this is a very good defensive unit.

 

[JR4]

Belichick was specifically asked about corners turning around to play the ball on WEEI yesterday. .......
Defensive backs & turning for ball - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Q: On the pass interference calls when it doesn’t look like McCourty is turning his head back to look at the ball, do you believe that’s why the officials are throwing those flags?

A: What the rule is, is that if you’re looking at the ball and there is contact, it’s not a foul, unless you’re grabbing the guy or obviously flagrantly doing something. If you’re not looking at the ball, and there is contact, then it is a foul. The rule is pretty cut and dried.

Q: It seems to have happened a few times with McCourty. Is that something? It seems like he’s stride for stride with his guy, hip to hip, and then he just doesn’t turn on it. There have been some negative plays. Is that something he has to do right now – turn on that ball?

A: Well, you have to be careful. It’s fine if the ball is in the air and you turn. That’s great. But if the ball is not in the air, and you turn, and then the receiver sees you turn and goes in the other direction and uncovers, then you don’t have the guy covered. It’s a technique thing. There are different situations that the right thing to do sometimes is to look for the ball and sometimes it isn’t to look for the ball.

Q: How do you guys teach it?

A: There’s a lot of different situations. We talk about those. It isn’t about looking or not looking for the ball. If you don’t look at the ball, then you have to play the receiver’s hands and knock the ball out when the receiver tries to catch it. If you’re looking at the ball, then you play the ball -- and hopefully the ball is in the air when you look at it. Because if you’re looking at it and the ball isn’t in the air, a good receiver will just uncover. As soon as you turn your back on him, he just goes in the other direction.

This BB Q&A should be stickyed for future reference. Most of us have no experience related to defending NFL receivers. This Q&A gives a great insight to the issues involved.

I just wonder if there isn't a way to communicate that the ball is in the air or about to be in the air.
If the CB has to keep his back to ball how do they teach playing the hands?

 

[PatsDeb]

I don't like being called a McCourty Hater, because I am not, but I do think the guy is not "all that." I don't know or care what the technique is. I can see with my own eyes that he does not get his head around to see the ball enough so that he either gets too many completions against him, or too many PI calls because at the last second he realizes that the ball is coming and he grabs or pushes his guy. Other teams see it too - they are constantly throwing on him. Why are we haters if we point out what we see on the field? He deserved whatever flags he got the other day and though I can't recall specifics, I thought he got away with one or two more. For whatever reason, he's just not that good, at least consistently. When he does get his head around he's pretty good at picking it off, but it doesn't happen often enough. If it did, other teams wouldn't throw on him so much. They'd stay away. But they don't. They're willing to risk an INT for the more likely outcome of a big completion or a PI call.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't like being called a McCourty Hater, because I am not, but I do think the guy is not "all that." I don't know or care what the technique is. I can see with my own eyes that he does not get his head around to see the ball enough so that he either gets too many completions against him, or too many PI calls because at the last second he realizes that the ball is coming and he grabs or pushes his guy. Other teams see it too - they are constantly throwing on him. Why are we haters if we point out what we see on the field? He deserved whatever flags he got the other day and though I can't recall specifics, I thought he got away with one or two more. For whatever reason, he's just not that good, at least consistently. When he does get his head around he's pretty good at picking it off, but it doesn't happen often enough. If it did, other teams wouldn't throw on him so much. They'd stay away. But they don't. They're willing to risk an INT for the more likely outcome of a big completion or a PI call.

LOL That's a big problem around here. Just understand, even if you had talent you wouldn't last long on a BB team. Talent is meaningless if it won't accept coaching. That's why guys like Meriweather get cut. Even Ty Law had to learn to adapt his style and talent and do it Bill's way, because unless everyone does the units are talent limited. Asante's not here because he guessed wrong too often and it was costlier when he did that than beneficial when guessed right.

 

[aluminum seats]

I don't like being called a McCourty Hater, because I am not, but I do think the guy is not "all that." I don't know or care what the technique is. I can see with my own eyes that he does not get his head around to see the ball enough so that he either gets too many completions against him, or too many PI calls because at the last second he realizes that the ball is coming and he grabs or pushes his guy. Other teams see it too - they are constantly throwing on him. Why are we haters if we point out what we see on the field? He deserved whatever flags he got the other day and though I can't recall specifics, I thought he got away with one or two more. For whatever reason, he's just not that good, at least consistently. When he does get his head around he's pretty good at picking it off, but it doesn't happen often enough. If it did, other teams wouldn't throw on him so much. They'd stay away. But they don't. They're willing to risk an INT for the more likely outcome of a big completion or a PI call.

This post just has far too much common sense in it.

Seriously, I co-sign pretty much all of it. First, spare me the "hater" talk, which sounds like we're a bunch of ignorant teenagers. Second, my thoughts on McCourty are simply based on what I see--and it's not so good, certainly not when it matters. I hope that changes, but I'm increasingly becoming sure Belichick has to make a coaching change.

 

[JR4]

I don't like being called a McCourty Hater, because I am not, but I do think the guy is not "all that." I don't know or care what the technique is. I can see with my own eyes that he does not get his head around to see the ball enough so that he either gets too many completions against him, or too many PI calls because at the last second he realizes that the ball is coming and he grabs or pushes his guy. Other teams see it too - they are constantly throwing on him. Why are we haters if we point out what we see on the field? He deserved whatever flags he got the other day and though I can't recall specifics, I thought he got away with one or two more. For whatever reason, he's just not that good, at least consistently. When he does get his head around he's pretty good at picking it off, but it doesn't happen often enough. If it did, other teams wouldn't throw on him so much. They'd stay away. But they don't. They're willing to risk an INT for the more likely outcome of a big completion or a PI call.

PatsDeb, it is probably NOT Devin you should have problems with. The first year here he was turning his head and did well. Now with a few years of coaching he is having problems.

You say you don't "care what the technique is " but then you complain about Devin not turning his head.
Guess what? That is technique you are complaining about.

So you really need to Read what BB and his staff is coaching Devin to do. (see above post on BB Q & A)
BB is happy with Devin because he is doing what he has been coached to do. Maybe it is BB and the coaching staff you need to complain about.

 

[smg93]

Asante's not here because he guessed wrong too often and it was costlier when he did that than beneficial when guessed right.

This is LOL. Asante is not here because he wanted more money than BB was willing to pay and the Eagles were.

On McCourty - I don't mind if he gets beat on a perfectly thrown ball. If a QB can throw the ball 25 or 30 yards accurately hitting the WR's hands on full stride, all you can do is tip your cap to that guy and say great play. But how often does that happen?

What's annoying is that many times QB's will underthrow a receiver (sometimes on purpose) and when DM is not looking for the ball that's when he runs into the receiver and practically tackles him. Just like what happened in the PI he got on Thomas.

Those kinds of plays can be avoided just by looking back at the ball. Perhaps this isn't just McCourty's fault. Maybe the safeties can let him know when the ball's in the air. But whatever it is, I'm sure BB is not thrilled that all these PI's are happening and he certainly isn't coaching his DB's to do that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This is LOL. Asante is not here because he wanted more money than BB was willing to pay and the Eagles were.

On McCourty - I don't mind if he gets beat on a perfectly thrown ball. If a QB can throw the ball 25 or 30 yards accurately hitting the WR's hands on full stride, all you can do is tip your cap to that guy and say great play. But how often does that happen?

What's annoying is that many times QB's will underthrow a receiver (sometimes on purpose) and when DM is not looking for the ball that's when he runs into the receiver and practically tackles him. Just like what happened in the PI he got on Thomas.

Those kinds of plays can be avoided just by looking back at the ball. Perhaps this isn't just McCourty's fault. Maybe the safeties can let him know when the ball's in the air. But whatever it is, I'm sure BB is not thrilled that all these PI's are happening and he certainly isn't coaching his DB's to do that.

It would seem he isn't as upset as the fan base is and he is in fact coaching them to err on the side of caution. Spot fouls don't always lead to TD's - Ernie probably has reams of data on that - whereas blown assignments and coverages often do.

 

[dannydyn]

I don't care where I'm suppose to stick it.

Mccortey is the biggest ham and egg on that team. I can't believe we wasted a first round pick on this clown. ZERO ability to turn to the ball, and crappy tackling effort.

Get rid of him!