The 2013 Prospect Thread

[Avenger]

The other de opposite Jarvis Jones is Cornelius Washington. He played olb in their 3-4 last year. Supposedly ran a 4.4 forty. Here's an article on his fory time and another on his position switch. Georgia is going to be an interesting team to follow. Also, have a safety in Baccari Rambo to keep an eye on. He's moving to de this year. I'm leery of drafting Jones if he couldn't pass USC's physical.

Cornelius Washington is READY!! | DawgBarkCEO | Dawgbark.net

Georgia's Cornelius Washington excited about position switch | The Augusta Chronicle

I heard Rambo might be entering the supplemental draft

 

[ZoisKing]

I heard Rambo might be entering the supplemental draft

Link??????

 

[ZoisKing]

Or I could have just googled it

Anyways, if this were to occur, and the Pats were to jump on selecting him in the supplemental draft, then where do you think he'd be chosen? And what compensation in the 2013 draft would the Patriots have to give up?

 

[Avenger]

Link??????

He was staying at a friend's during spring break, woke up in the middle of the night and ate some brownies lying around, didn't realize they were laced. That's his story at least. Pissed hot on a drug test, second infraction. First time he was pulled over and a girl in the car had a joint in her purse, was cleared by the police but UGA's zero tolerance policy kicked in.

Suspended Rambo reportedly considering the NFL Supplemental Draft | National Football Post

 

[Avenger]

Or I could have just googled it

Anyways, if this were to occur, and the Pats were to jump on selecting him in the supplemental draft, then where do you think he'd be chosen? And what compensation in the 2013 draft would the Patriots have to give up?

2nd or 3rd round most likely. The formula would put us toward the end of the line, so we would most likely have to commit a 2nd round pick if we really want him, which in all likely hood would be towards the end of the second in the 2013 draft. Some people had him ranked higher than Barron had he chose to come out this year.

 

[ZoisKing]

He was staying at a friend's during spring break, woke up in the middle of the night and ate some brownies lying around, didn't realize they were laced. That's his story at least. Pissed hot on a drug test, second infraction. First time he was pulled over and a girl in the car had a joint in her purse, was cleared by the police but UGA's zero tolerance policy kicked in.

Suspended Rambo reportedly considering the NFL Supplemental Draft | National Football Post

Thanks for the link Avenger. Unlike some, I don't have an issue about pot. It helps the Patriots nab some talented players lower than they're talent suggests

I've listened to some of his interviews and he definitely sounds like a partaker, but he sounds intelligent and introspectful as well.

I watched the Ole Miss game just to gauge his ability and he's up and down, though his upside is very high. He had two touchdowns on him in that game, but he did have two picks, one of which was a full display of what he could bring to a team as he won the battle for the ball.

Yet another player to keep an eye on.

 

[ZoisKing]

Also, I'm in love with some of the names these kids have in the 2013 draft!

Baccarri Rambo
Barkevious Mingo
Star Lotulelei

Pure awesome. :rocker:

 

[ZoisKing]

2nd or 3rd round most likely. The formula would put us toward the end of the line, so we would most likely have to commit a 2nd round pick if we really want him, which in all likely hood would be towards the end of the second in the 2013 draft. Some people had him ranked higher than Barron had he chose to come out this year.

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but I say committ to it.

His size is something else and he has good speed and can run with the receiver.

He certainly looks better than the video I've seen of Tavon Wilson so far.

 

[mayoclinic]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but I say committ to it.

His size is something else and he has good speed and can run with the receiver.

He certainly looks better than the video I've seen of Tavon Wilson so far.

I can't agree with you on this one.

First, the Pats have only 5 draft picks currently for 2013: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th. Rambo would have to be the second coming of Troy Polamalu for BB to give up a 2nd round pick in the supplemental draft. We saw how difficult it was for the Pats to move around this draft compared with previous ones. BB will want to acquire more picks, not give them away.

Second, there is a glut at the secondary position, and until we can sort it out I'm averse to using a high draft pick on another player. We've added Steven Gregory, Wilson, Dennard, Will Allen and Marquice Cole. Dowling only played in 2 games last year. We've got a logjam at DB, and adding another player into the mix before we've sorted out the current ones may not help.

Third, my priorities for 2013 are interior OL and DL. Secondary is way down on the list until we've had a chance to evaluate how all the newcomers fit together. And we've spent 2 1st round picks (Meriweather and McCourty) and 5 2nd round picks (Wheatley, Chung Butler, Dowling and Wilson) on the secondary in the last 6 drafts. It's time to address the aging middle of the lines, not draft more DBs.

Fourth, Rambo was suspended for failing a drug test. While it may not be a show stopper, Meriweather is the only guy I can think of that BB drafted in the first 2 rounds who had significant character issues. (Spikes' video career and PED issues came up AFTER he was drafted.) If Rambo drops to the 4th round maybe. But in the 2nd?

Finally, I suscribe to OTG's hybrid "raptor" DB approach. I want guys who can be moved around in the secondary interchangeably. A 6' 218# college safety just doesn't fit the way I'd like to see the secondary evolve. And it seems as if BB is moving that way - McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Gregory, Moore, Wilson and Dennard are all guys who can potentially play both CB and S.

Of course, if Rambo IS the second coming of Troy Polamalu then all those arguments go out the window. But I doubt it.

 

[mayoclinic]

Also, I'm in love with some of the names these kids have in the 2013 draft!

Baccarri Rambo
Barkevious Mingo
Star Lotulelei

Pure awesome. :rocker:

Imagine what BB could do with those guys in a hybrid defense where players morph together seamlessly:

Bacarri Mingo
Star Rambo
Barkevious Lotulelei

That'll the opposing offense.

 

[ZoisKing]

I can't agree with you on this one.

First, the Pats have only 5 draft picks currently for 2013: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th. Rambo would have to be the second coming of Troy Polamalu for BB to give up a 2nd round pick in the supplemental draft. We saw how difficult it was for the Pats to move around this draft compared with previous ones. BB will want to acquire more picks, not give them away.

Second, there is a glut at the secondary position, and until we can sort it out I'm averse to using a high draft pick on another player. We've added Steven Gregory, Wilson, Dennard, Will Allen and Marquice Cole. Dowling only played in 2 games last year. We've got a logjam at DB, and adding another player into the mix before we've sorted out the current ones may not help.

Third, my priorities for 2013 are interior OL and DL. Secondary is way down on the list until we've had a chance to evaluate how all the newcomers fit together. And we've spent 2 1st round picks (Meriweather and McCourty) and 5 2nd round picks (Wheatley, Chung Butler, Dowling and Wilson) on the secondary in the last 6 drafts. It's time to address the aging middle of the lines, not draft more DBs.

Fourth, Rambo was suspended for failing a drug test. While it may not be a show stopper, Meriweather is the only guy I can think of that BB drafted in the first 2 rounds who had significant character issues. (Spikes' video career and PED issues came up AFTER he was drafted.) If Rambo drops to the 4th round maybe. But in the 2nd?

Finally, I suscribe to OTG's hybrid "raptor" DB approach. I want guys who can be moved around in the secondary interchangeably. A 6' 218# college safety just doesn't fit the way I'd like to see the secondary evolve. And it seems as if BB is moving that way - McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Gregory, Moore, Wilson and Dennard are all guys who can potentially play both CB and S.

Of course, if Rambo IS the second coming of Troy Polamalu then all those arguments go out the window. But I doubt it.

You definitely took a more calculated approach than I did.

I was more like "Oh **** Baccarri Rambo could be available!!"

I do see the glut you've mentioned, and I think some of our pieces are interchangeable without the loss of production.

However, Rambo is one bad dude and I'd rather grab a guy I feel good about then wonder if the guys we have can produce.

On another note, I never paid attention to the supplemental draft before. Having just researched it, I realized that there are tiered groupings (worst six teams and 12 playoffs teams pick first and last) and a blind submission system that requires you to submit a bid on the player. That means you can bid a 1st round pick, 2nd round, 3rd round, etc. based on which round you would have likely chosen said player if he were in the draft. So if we thought he was worth a 2nd rounder then that'd be our bid. However, if a weaker team were to submit a 2nd rounder as well, then they'd get the player.

Hope that helps anyone as clueless as me on that process.

 

[ZoisKing]

BTW, just read that he changed his named in grade school. He's always been Baccarri, but his last name used to be....


Fudge!


He earns extra points from me on that concession as well He'd be a whole lot less cool without the Rambo attached

 

[Avenger]

You definitely took a more calculated approach than I did.

I was more like "Oh **** Baccarri Rambo could be available!!"

I do see the glut you've mentioned, and I think some of our pieces are interchangeable without the loss of production.

However, Rambo is one bad dude and I'd rather grab a guy I feel good about then wonder if the guys we have can produce.

On another note, I never paid attention to the supplemental draft before. Having just researched it, I realized that there are tiered groupings (worst six teams and 12 playoffs teams pick first and last) and a blind submission system that requires you to submit a bid on the player. That means you can bid a 1st round pick, 2nd round, 3rd round, etc. based on which round you would have likely chosen said player if he were in the draft. So if we thought he was worth a 2nd rounder then that'd be our bid. However, if a weaker team were to submit a 2nd rounder as well, then they'd get the player.

Hope that helps anyone as clueless as me on that process.

Yep, which is why we would need to commit a 2nd rounder, because you know one of the 30 other teams below us will submit a 3rd. Interesting tidbit look up the Bernie Kosar draft controversy.

 

[ZoisKing]

Yep, which is why we would need to commit a 2nd rounder, because you know one of the 30 other teams below us will submit a 3rd. Interesting tidbit look up the Bernie Kosar draft controversy.

I read about the Kosar controversy while researching the supplemental draft. Sneaky.

What's your opinion on Rambo Avenger? Would you submit a 2nd for him? I say you just can't pass on a prospect like him. He's a first round safety prospect and you could possibly get him a round later.

I'd be missing the 2nd rounder come 2013, but it'd be well worth it to land our free safety of the future.

 

[Avenger]

I read about the Kosar controversy while researching the supplemental draft. Sneaky.

What's your opinion on Rambo Avenger? Would you submit a 2nd for him? I say you just can't pass on a prospect like him. He's a first round safety prospect and you could possibly get him a round later.

I'd be missing the 2nd rounder come 2013, but it'd be well worth it to land our free safety of the future.

I'm of the school of thought that says you can never have enough defensive backs. I would strongly consider forking over a 2nd rounder for him. It all depends on how you compare him to guys like Kenny Vaccaro, Ray Ray Armstrong, Robert Lester and T.J. McDonald. The eval period is going to be much shorter. I would consider him among the top 3 with the others being Vaccaro and McDonald, the others I mentioned all have some red flags that push them farther down than Rambo on and off the field. Overall I think it would be worth it, considering you get him a year early to boot.

 

[manxman2601]

I'm of the school of thought that says you can never have enough defensive backs. I would strongly consider forking over a 2nd rounder for him. It all depends on how you compare him to guys like Kenny Vaccaro, Ray Ray Armstrong, Robert Lester and T.J. McDonald. The eval period is going to be much shorter. I would consider him among the top 3 with the others being Vaccaro and McDonald, the others I mentioned all have some red flags that push them farther down than Rambo on and off the field. Overall I think it would be worth it, considering you get him a year early to boot.

Don't sleep on Eric Reid. Personally, i think he's the best of the bunch.

@ Mayoclinic

I response to your thoughts on the secondary, whilst I sort of agree with you about the glut (although Chung is approaching the final year of his contract), I do respectfully disagree with you on the moveable parts secondary you and OTG propose. Certainly there's no harm in having versatility in the secondary, but I do think you need specialists back there too. A dominant safety would be a real boost to the defense, the secondary was our key weakpoint last year. That's why I was so high on Barron and why Eric Reid is near the top of my list for next year.

the way I see it, by adding a safety who can cover, add run support and tackle, you are effectively improving three layers of the defense. Firstly, the centerfield safety play is improved, secondly, you virtually add an extra linebacker to your defense (Barron's ability in run support at Alabama being a perfect example) and thirdly you improve the play of your CB's who aren't left on an island as much. That's why I think the specialist safety is such an important position and why I think BB tends to assign significant resources to the position - we've not drafted many below the second round.

Having said that, having just watched a game of Jonathan Hankins, I'm all for investing in that behemoth. As a Brit, brought up around the game of rugby, one think that really annoys me with American Football is the poor quality of tackling. Why defensive players can't wrap their arms around someone really puzzles me. In the game I saw, Hankins' tackling was superb and sold me on him straight away.

 

[mayoclinic]

Don't sleep on Eric Reid. Personally, i think he's the best of the bunch.

@ Mayoclinic

I response to your thoughts on the secondary, whilst I sort of agree with you about the glut (although Chung is approaching the final year of his contract), I do respectfully disagree with you on the moveable parts secondary you and OTG propose. Certainly there's no harm in having versatility in the secondary, but I do think you need specialists back there too. A dominant safety would be a real boost to the defense, the secondary was our key weakpoint last year. That's why I was so high on Barron and why Eric Reid is near the top of my list for next year.

the way I see it, by adding a safety who can cover, add run support and tackle, you are effectively improving three layers of the defense. Firstly, the centerfield safety play is improved, secondly, you virtually add an extra linebacker to your defense (Barron's ability in run support at Alabama being a perfect example) and thirdly you improve the play of your CB's who aren't left on an island as much. That's why I think the specialist safety is such an important position and why I think BB tends to assign significant resources to the position - we've not drafted many below the second round.

Having said that, having just watched a game of Jonathan Hankins, I'm all for investing in that behemoth. As a Brit, brought up around the game of rugby, one think that really annoys me with American Football is the poor quality of tackling. Why defensive players can't wrap their arms around someone really puzzles me. In the game I saw, Hankins' tackling was superb and sold me on him straight away.

We obviously disagree to some extent about the "specialist safety". But regardless, BB has just invested a 2nd round pick in Tavon Wilson, and I want to see what he and Steve Gregory can do before looking at using a high pick on another guy. I agree that a guy who can play centerfield helps your CBs, but I think that BB drafted Wilson to be that guy, and let's give him a chance.

I do think that if you are looking for a safety, the 2013 class has some nice options. TJ McDonald is a nice player, kind of in the Eric Reid mold. And I actually think Tyrann Mathieu would be best used as a playmaking safety.

When I had hoped that the Pats would trade back and get an extra 2013 1st I had mocked them as using their second 1st round pick on a DB like Mathieu, McDonald or Reid. But with only 5 picks for 2013 it's just a lower priority for me RIGHT NOW than it is for you. That could easily change if our secondary proves to be as porous as it was last year.

 

[Husse]

All right, you guys have lured me back in.

...

5. The NFL is currently a "run and shoot" league in which QBs, WRs, DBs and pass rushers are the sexy picks. That tends to push the other guys down. Remember 2003 when DTs went 4, 6, 8, 12 and 13? Only Marcell Dareus (#3 in 2011) and BJ Raji (#9 in 2009) have gone top 10 since then. "Elite" DTs have slipped to the teens such as Haloti Ngata (#12 in 2006), Nick Fairley (#13 in 2011), Fletcher Cox (#12 in 2012) and Michael Brockers (#14 in 2012) - all guys who were considered likely top 10 picks at one point. The 2013 draft is going to be loaded with QBs and pass rushers, and those should push some of the DTs down - even potentially "elite" guys like Johnathan Hankins and Star Lotoleili could fall into the teens, and potentially to within reach.

What would your definition of DTs be? Just a quick look at past drafts:
2007 - #10 Amobi Okoye, DT
2008 - #5 Glenn Dorsey, DT - #7 Sedrick Ellis, DT
2009 - #9 Raji.
2010 - #2 Ndamukong Suh, DT - #3 Gerald McCoy, DT - #10 Tyson Alualu, DT
2011 - #3 Dareus

 

[mayoclinic]

What would your definition of DTs be? Just a quick look at past drafts:
2007 - #10 Amobi Okoye, DT
2008 - #5 Glenn Dorsey, DT - #7 Sedrick Ellis, DT
2009 - #9 Raji.
2010 - #2 Ndamukong Suh, DT - #3 Gerald McCoy, DT - #10 Tyson Alualu, DT
2011 - #3 Dareus

You caught me fair and square. Major screw up on my part - I realized it myself a few days ago. I must have had a brain fart of monumental proprotions. Okoye, Dorsey, Ellis and McCoy have been forgettable. Suh is so obvious that I completely overlooked him. My bad.

 

[Husse]

You caught me fair and square. Major screw up on my part - I realized it myself a few days ago. I must have had a brain fart of monumental proprotions. Okoye, Dorsey, Ellis and McCoy have been forgettable. Suh is so obvious that I completely overlooked him. My bad.

It happens, we all do it.

And then my besserwisser-side just had to come out and play.

It feels like the 2003 draft was more a product of teams not liking the DT-talent in the folowing year/years drafts. You are right about the 2004-2006 drafts not having any DTs in the top 10. So they took them higher, including DEs (4 picks between #13-18), than their value was.