Schefter: Ochocinco will stay with Patriots

[patfanken]

I think I don't understand how you expect Edelman to become the 3rd WR. He has never earned that spot despite many opportunites, and the talent beyond the first 2 is better than it has been in any of is seasons.
Also not sure why you have 85 or Underwood ahead of 84. What special teams has Underwood played?

Never said he was the 3rd WR. Look again. I said he backs up Welker....and that is a spot he HAS earned. Is problem is that the only time Welker hasn't been on the field in the last 5 years is when there are 3 TEs in SY/GL, or when his knee blew out in 2009. Since that one 2 game stretch where Edelman got consistent looks (and produced), there hasn't been a situation where he's had a chance to produce or not. All I know is that he produced in his rookie year when given a chance, and that going into his 4th year, he is probably a much better receiver now than he was then.

The only reason he had the #3 next to him was that he just happened to be the first WR I named after Welker and Lloyd. If pressed to give a name right now I think the 3rd WR will be Chad.

Edelman's role on the receiver corps will be to be Welker's back up and ST's. Chad's (IMHO) will be ot be Lloyd's back up and the #3 WR Underwood's role would be to be the back up for the #3WR and ST's. I think the roles are set, just the names of the players might be changed. You could just as easily change Branch pr Stallworth for Chad, etc.,

BTW- cool your jets, AJ, Its like you are in "attack mode" and are lashing out at everyone real and perceived. Don't forget I agree with you on this issue.

 

[ATippett56]

1) 3 is a pretty low number for draftees. Obviously, you have matched 3 three picks with our 3 weaknesses. If this is the case, we can afford to trade up as well as trading forward.

I pointed out the obvious holes currently in the New England Patriots roster.

2) I don't like the lack of depth as RB. You mislead a bit by listing Polite and Larsen running backs. We are really adding a fullback position.

I did not differentiate between halfback and fullback in the running back category.

3) I might draft 2 DE's and expect to ditch Brace, or for Pryor not to survive.

I would like to ditch Ron Brace and Marcus Harrison right now, given the opportunity. Hopefully the New England Patriots will seriously upgrade the 3-4 defensive end position, the 3-4 outside linebacker position, and the safety position via the 2012 NFL Draft. In some cases, more than one draft selection at the deficient positions would be welcome.

 

[Ring 6]

Never said he was the 3rd WR. Look again. I said he backs up Welker....and that is a spot he HAS earned.

I guess we will just have to disagree on that.

Is problem is that the only time Welker hasn't been on the field in the last 5 years is when there are 3 TEs in SY/GL, or when his knee blew out in 2009. Since that one 2 game stretch where Edelman got consistent looks (and produced), there hasn't been a situation where he's had a chance to produce or not. All I know is that he produced in his rookie year when given a chance, and that going into his 4th year, he is probably a much better receiver now than he was then.

I would expect if he was good enough to take the place of Welker who leads the league in receptions, BB would find a way to get him on the field to produce. In my eyes, he has only shown he is not a capable WR. Again, we can disagree.

The only reason he had the #3 next to him was that he just happened to be the first WR I named after Welker and Lloyd. If pressed to give a name right now I think the 3rd WR will be Chad.

I assumed numbering them meant ordering their roles. Thanks for clarifying.

Edelman's role on the receiver corps will be to be Welker's back up and ST's. Chad's (IMHO) will be ot be Lloyd's back up and the #3 WR Underwood's role would be to be the back up for the #3WR and ST's. I think the roles are set, just the names of the players might be changed. You could just as easily change Branch pr Stallworth for Chad, etc.,

I think a lot is left to be determined.

BTW- cool your jets, AJ, Its like you are in "attack mode" and are lashing out at everyone real and perceived. Don't forget I agree with you on this issue.

If disagreeing with some of your comments is something you consider at 'attack' that is a you problem, not a me problem.
There was nothing belligerent or in any way attacking in my post to you. I simply stated my opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

Stallworth's 22 receptions is still more productive than Johnson's 15 receptions. Stallworth's salary cap hit is far less than Johnson's salary cap hit. As for Gonzalez, 5 receptions in his last three seasons is far less productive than Stallworth's 22 receptions last season. As for Johnson, if the New England Patriots were satisfied with his production than Stallworth would not have been brought back.

All correct, but none of that makes Stallworth any kind of lock to make the roster.
I'm sure if it comes down to 85 or Stallworth, the number of receptions in 2011 isn't really going to be the deciding factor.
Gonzalez is a different story because his production is based upon being injured, not just not getting on the field or getting open.

It is very likely that the WR corps comes down to Welker, Lloyd and Branch as 1-2-3. In that event, it is very possible that Edelman could make the team as a special teamer and 5th WR.
Assuming we keep 5+ Slater, which has been the case, that leaves 85, Stallworth, Gonzalez and Underwood, plus anyone else that is signed or drafted to fill one remaining spot.
Stallworth has done nothing in the last 4 years to tell me he is even most likely among that group to make the team, much less a lock.

 

[Ring 6]

How about on this team?

Wes Welker......112.. 1175

Randy Moss......98.. 1493

Kevin Faulk........47.. 383

Jabar Gaffney.....36.. 449

Ben Watson.......36.. 389

Donte Stallworth 46.. 697

Next excuse...

He caught 22 on the Redskins last year. That is exactly the point, he is 5 years older and has fewer catches in 4 years since he left than he had in the one year he was here.
If we signed Stallworth of 2007 I'd be thrilled. We didn't.

 

[ATippett56]

All correct, but none of that makes Stallworth any kind of lock to make the roster.

Neither does 15 receptions last season from Ochocinco.

I'm sure if it comes down to 85 or Stallworth, the number of receptions in 2011 isn't really going to be the deciding factor.
Gonzalez is a different story because his production is based upon being injured, not just not getting on the field or getting open.

Stallworth has the ability to stretch the field, which many Patsfans message board posters complain about is the missing piece to the wide receiver puzzle.

It is very likely that the WR corps comes down to Welker, Lloyd and Branch as 1-2-3. In that event, it is very possible that Edelman could make the team as a special teamer and 5th WR.

If the New England Patriots cut Edelman, who will be the team's primary punt returner?

Assuming we keep 5+ Slater, which has been the case, that leaves 85, Stallworth, Gonzalez and Underwood, plus anyone else that is signed or drafted to fill one remaining spot.

Based on skill set it's Branch versus Gonzalez, Stallworth versus Johnson.

Stallworth has done nothing in the last 4 years to tell me he is even most likely among that group to make the team, much less a lock.

Donte Stallworth will garner one-on-one coverage within the current New England Patriots offense not double teams.

 

[ATippett56]

He caught 22 on the Redskins last year.

John Beck and Rex Grossman. No wonder the Washington Redskins surrendered a king's ransom for the number two pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.

 

[Ring 6]

Neither does 15 receptions last season from Ochocinco.

Repeating the number of catches 85 had last year doesnt make Stallworth better.

Stallworth has the ability to stretch the field, which many Patsfans message board posters complain about is the missing piece to the wide receiver puzzle.

No he really doesn't. If he did, he would have been on the filed producing something,

If the New England Patriots cut Edelman, who will be the team's primary punt returner?

I don't know who would be next in line, but we will not go to camp with Edelman guaranteed a job because we don't use anyone else to return punts.

Based on skill set it's Branch versus Gonzalez, Stallworth versus Johnson.

No, its WRs vs WRs. If Branch and Gonzalez are the best 2, they make the team, if 85 and Stallworth are, they do.

Donte Stallworth will garner one-on-one coverage within the current New England Patriots offense not double teams.

Wow.
Stallworth hasn't seen a double team in at least 5 years.
Are you sure we are talking about the same guy?
I'm talking about the one who could only catch 17 passes for 170 yards in 11 games and 7 starts for Cleveland in 2008. (PS before you try to blame the QB Braylon Edwards caught 55 for 873 on the same team)
I'm talking about the guy who missed 2009, who caught 2 passes all season on a WR starved Ravens team, and who was a healthy scratch in games for the Redskins last year and caught 22 passes.
You seem to think we are talking about Vincent Jackson.

 

[Ring 6]

John Beck and Rex Grossman. No wonder the Washington Redskins surrendered a king's ransom for the number two pick in the 2012 NFL Draft.

Jabar Gaffney was able to catch 68 passes from those QBs.
As a team the Redskins completed 348 passes which was the 12th most in the league, so there are now 2 reasons I've given that the QB argument is lame.

 

[ATippett56]

No, its WRs vs WRs. If Branch and Gonzalez are the best 2, they make the team, if 85 and Stallworth are, they do.

If Gonzalez makes a remarkable comeback than I'm all for the dismissal of both Ochocinco and Stallworth. I saw enough of dinosaurs Shaun Ellis and Gerard Warren on the New England Patriots defense last season and neither improved the New England Patriots defense whatsoever.

 

[ATippett56]

Jabar Gaffney was able to catch 68 passes from those QBs.
As a team the Redskins completed 348 passes which was the 12th most in the league, so there are now 2 reasons I've given that the QB argument is lame.

After Bill Belichick makes umpteen trade downs in the 2012 NFL Draft, petition Bill Belichick to trade a 2012 fifth round draft selection for Jabar Gaffney.

 

[strngplyr]

I never proclaimed that Maroney was the #1 RB on this team.

Somebody else has credibility problems.

Maroney WAS the #1 RB on this team.

 

[strngplyr]

2012 New England Patriots roster (speculative)

QB - 3 Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
RB - 4 Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Polite/Larsen
TE - 3 Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
OL - 9 Light, Vollmer, Solder, Cannon, Waters, Mankins, Gallery, Connolly, Wendell
WR - 6 Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Stallworth, Edelman, Slater

DL - 7 Wilfork, Deaderick, Love, Fanene, Pryor, Brace, 2012 NFL Draft Pick
LB - 8 Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, White/Koutouvides, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Scott, 2012 NFL Draft Pick
CB - 6 McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore, Allen, Cole
S - 4 Chung, Barrett, Gregory, 2012 Draft Pick

P - Mesko
PK - Gostkowski
LS - Aiken

New England Patriots - 2012 Team Roster - Rotoworld.com Fantasy Sports

At first glance, the weakest positions currently on the New England Patriots roster are the 3-4 defensive ends, the 3-4 outside linebackers, and safety.

Did I miss something or are you only projecting 3 draftpicks/rookies to make the roster?

edit: also lol@the link, Danny Aiken is 112 years old.

 

[Ring 6]

If Gonzalez makes a remarkable comeback than I'm all for the dismissal of both Ochocinco and Stallworth. I saw enough of dinosaurs Shaun Ellis and Gerard Warren on the New England Patriots defense last season and neither improved the New England Patriots defense whatsoever.

They were role players who probably didn't play 20% of the snaps combined all season. They added something, and it was more than we would have gotten without them.
Ellis was the only player on the roster capable of playing LDE with Deaderick was on pup. He got a bad wrap for missing tackles 6 yards in the backfield, but i'd rather have the guy 6 yards in the backfield disrupting a play than getting blocked. He was certainly nothing special but he was reasonably solid overall playing the run when he did. Warren was just the last guy on the bench, and he wasn't even that the whole season. Nothing was lost by having him.
Haynesworth would be another story...........

I think we pretty much agree except we have a 180 degree difference of opinion on what kind of a player Donte Stallworth is in 2012.

 

[Ring 6]

After Bill Belichick makes umpteen trade downs in the 2012 NFL Draft, petition Bill Belichick to trade a 2012 fifth round draft selection for Jabar Gaffney.

That would be great, but obviously the point was that Stallworth is accountable to his 22 catches, you can't just excuse it because you don't like the QB.

 

[ATippett56]

Maroney WAS the #1 RB on this team.

Mrs. Leverlilly: "But that's a priceless Steinway!"

Clouseau: "Not anymore!"

But that's a priceless Steinway! - YouTube

 

[ATippett56]

Did I miss something or are you only projecting 3 draft picks/rookies to make the roster?

I illustrated what I perceive are the major holes in the New England Patriots roster. As for further upgrades, especially on defense ...

Ron Brace
Josh Barrett
Jermaine Cunningham
Trevor Scott

 

[ATippett56]

That would be great, but obviously the point was that Stallworth is accountable to his 22 catches, you can't just excuse it because you don't like the QB.

Bill Belichick can further pursue alternatives to Stallworth and Ochocinco prior to the official start of the 2012 NFL season in September.

 

[Ring 6]

Bill Belichick can further pursue alternatives to Stallworth and Ochocinco prior to the official start of the 2012 NFL season in September.

Of course he can, but that isn't what you were saying. You were touting Stallworth as a player who can stretch the field, a lock to make the roster, and implying that his 22 catches were good because of who the QBs were.
If we now agree that neither 85 or Stallworth are likely to do much for this team in 2012, then let's move on to something else.

 

[ATippett56]

Of course he can, but that isn't what you were saying. You were touting Stallworth as a player who can stretch the field, a lock to make the roster, and implying that his 22 catches were good because of who the QBs were.

If we now agree that neither 85 or Stallworth are likely to do much for this team in 2012, then let's move on to something else.

Allow me to rephrase, my preference is Stallworth to Ochocinco in this moment in time. In retrospect, I would have not traded draft picks for Ochocinco and at least retained wide receiver Brandon Tate as the New England Patriots primary kick returner.

If the opportunity presented itself, I would rather have Jabar Gaffney than either Stallworth or Ochocinco.