Curious to hear everyone's thoughts on Welker

[ctpatsfan77]

The deal that ESPN Boston and Mike Reiss came up with as fair is 4/$38.5M with $22M guaranteed. I had opined a while ago that I felt a 4/$34M plus incentives with $20M+/- guaranteed deal would be fair and reasonable IMO - so Reiss and I are at least in each other's ballparks.

Actually, you're nearly dead on. He actually proposed $34.5M/4 years.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Stevie Johnson, the talented Buffalo WR who is also a knucklehead, just signed a 5 year $36.5M deal with $19.5M guaranteed and $24M+ over the first 3... I know he's younger, but he's also not a bankable commodity and with his financial future secure not sure they will ever be able to get through to him.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm really starting to wonder if they should re-sign Gronkowski when his deal is up, he's going to be 24. They could get someone in the draft who is only 21 or 22.

These guys hit the wall at 23, it's all downhill from there, and draft picks are much cheaper. Replace Gronk with Edelman, draft a TE and sign VJax and have him play TE and WR at the same time. Problem solved.

 

[Joker]

I'm really starting to wonder if they should re-sign Gronkowski when his deal is up, he's going to be 24. They could get someone in the draft who is only 21 or 22.

These guys hit the wall at 23, it's all downhill from there, and draft picks are much cheaper. Replace Gronk with Edelman, draft a TE and sign VJax and have him play TE and WR at the same time. Problem solved.

right...great idea!..in fact...lets just sign players to "futures" contracts before they ever even graduate college and then use them for a season and let em walk...we;ll stay 4 trillion below the cap every year...and NO hysteria about "will we/won't we" sign every player that comes up for a new deal...I feel better already...whew*

 

[Gronkandez]

And FWIW I think they should have offered him 4/$36M last season because they could have increased the signing bonus portion of the guaranteed money and then amortized it over 5 years instead of 4 and ended up with a lot cap friendlier deal. We had the space to absorb a million+ a year off the top of that deal leaving us with Welker with 4 years remaining on essentially a 4 year <$8M AAV deal less potential dead cap.

I think the lockout may have hindered a deal like that, but yeah, in theory that makes sense. Welker didn't help his cause by leading the league in drops though. But you never know what the Pats have offered that have been turned down by WW.

 

[Snake Eyes]

How nice for you

Wow, thanks for adding value to this discussion

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think the lockout may have hindered a deal like that, but yeah, in theory that makes sense. Welker didn't help his cause by leading the league in drops though. But you never know what the Pats have offered that have been turned down by WW.

I think the ACL hindered the deal as much as the lockout. They wanted to see how he bounced back, and had to deal with Moss and see if Branch could be re-acquired, and in 2010 Wes clearly had lost a half step at least even though he never missed a beat as far as getting back. Then the lockout happened and when it was over and he appeared to be back better than ever but he was also now on the dreaded wrong side of 30 and they had hopes for Stinko despite that and they believed the TE's were poised to implode. Like Meatloaf says, two out of three. I don't think the drops bother them because in context he's targeted so much and he's still completing way more than anyone else % wise. Belichick doesn't sweat physical mistakes the way fans do nearly as much as mental errors, and only if they're of the repeated variety.

$8M per and $16M guaranteed even on a two year deal which means a fully guaranteed deal is just not going to cut it. Any more than $7/$35 was for the Cowboy. Nice try, never hurts to ask, except sometimes in football letting it just go to FA hurts. I think it did with Mankins unless he rebounds going forward. They have tag leverage, but it's already almost a million and a half more per than they wanted to pay long term... And they could probably use the $3M or so in cap savings on a long term deal in each of the next two seasons to help fund another need. So they don't end up having to restructure guys who will only bite them in the ass in another year or two. Which is what the Steelers and JETS are doing.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

right...great idea!..in fact...lets just sign players to "futures" contracts before they ever even graduate college and then use them for a season and let em walk...we;ll stay 4 trillion below the cap every year...and NO hysteria about "will we/won't we" sign every player that comes up for a new deal...I feel better already...whew*

If we sign enough of them we can then do what Detroit has now done and have 4 players (QB, WR, DE, LB) taking up more than half of our cap... We won't win except in fantasy leagues, but who cares and at least the O/D cost split will be balanced...

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow, thanks for adding value to this discussion

I could have just typed random letters on the keyboard, such as ";adjklfgno;ghop", and it would have added more value than your post did.

In fact, that just happened.

 

[the Patriot]

Welker is a phenomenal player. We need him. No Patriots receiver has been more consistent than Welker.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I could have just typed random letters on the keyboard, such as ";adjklfgno;ghop", and it would have added more value than your post did.

In fact, that just happened.

I don't think Welker deserves elite money because I don't think he's an elite receiver, he simply can't do the things that Larry Fitz and Andre Johnson can.

Sorry if you don't like that but it's my opinion, I think we'll soon find that it's BB's opinion as well.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't think Welker deserves elite money because I don't think he's an elite receiver, he simply can't do the things that Larry Fitz and Andre Johnson can.

Sorry if you don't like that but it's my opinion, I think we'll soon find that it's BB's opinion as well.

How is that fundamentally different from saying that "Jimmy Graham isn't an elite TE because he can't block the way GRONK does?"

 

[Snake Eyes]

How is that fundamentally different from saying that "Jimmy Graham isn't an elite TE because he can't block the way GRONK does?"

I'm a tad confused, if you said that "TE" instead of receiver you'd be correct. because Graham can't block like Gronk he shouldnt quite expect Gronk money, assuming all other things are equal. I havent seen too much footage of graham, perhaps he's a better receiver than Gronk which would change things.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't think Welker deserves elite money because I don't think he's an elite receiver, he simply can't do the things that Larry Fitz and Andre Johnson can.

Sorry if you don't like that but it's my opinion, I think we'll soon find that it's BB's opinion as well.

Well, let's just demonstrate how silly your take is on this by flipping this and noting that the statement would still be supportable....


I don't think Larry Fitz and Andre Johnson deserve elite money because I don't think they're elite receivers, they simply can't do the things that Welker can.


P.S. Calvin Johnson is the best WR in the NFL.

 

[bunuel]

@AdamSchefter
The Patriots will place their franchise tag on wide receiver Wes Welker by today's 4 pm deadline.

 

[resdubwhite]

@AdamSchefter
The Patriots will place their franchise tag on wide receiver Wes Welker by today's 4 pm deadline.

AAAAGgghhhhhhhhhh nuts.

 

[Joker]

I think this was predicted by many here weeks ago...NBD/SSDD

 

[Kjmass1]

Looks like a deal isn't happening, as for now.

MikeReiss: RT: @AdamSchefter: The Patriots will place their franchise tag on wide receiver Wes Welker by today's 4 pm deadline.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Well, let's just demonstrate how silly your take is on this by flipping this and noting that the statement would still be supportable....


I don't think Larry Fitz and Andre Johnson deserve elite money because I don't think they're elite receivers, they simply can't do the things that Welker can.


P.S. Calvin Johnson is the best WR in the NFL.

Larry Fitz and Johnson can do a lot more than Welker can, and defenses will commit more resources to try to stop them.

I dont think Megatron is #1, he's #1 at out-jumping everyone to the ball, as Moss was in his day, but Moss was also not very complete, Megatron doesnt have nearly the route running ability that Larry Fitz does, that might be partially due to his height, which makes it a lot more difficult to make quick cuts.

So there, I dont think Megatron can do all of what Welker does but I think Fitz and Andre can do a lot of what Welker does, much of it better, and they can do a bunch of stuff Welker can't.

 

[Deus Irae]

Larry Fitz and Johnson can do a lot more than Welker can, and defenses will commit more resources to try to stop them.

I dont think Megatron is #1, he's #1 at out-jumping everyone to the ball, as Moss was in his day, but Moss was also not very complete, Megatron doesnt have nearly the route running ability that Larry Fitz does, that might be partially due to his height, which makes it a lot more difficult to make quick cuts.

So there, I dont think Megatron can do all of what Welker does but I think Fitz and Andre can do a lot of what Welker does, much of it better, and they can do a bunch of stuff Welker can't.

Thank you for posting this nonsensical response to my post. It makes it much easier to ignore you.