2012 Patriot Picks: What players, what positions do you want?

[DaBruinz]

BB is and always will be a coach who uses the 3-4 as his base. Even against the Jets, when he had "4-3" personnel on the field, they were lined up with one DT on the center, a DT over an OT and one of the DE over the other OT. The last DE was usually lined up outside of the OT with his hand down, but could easily have been standing.

This defense reminds me a lot of the 2002 defense when the Pats didn't have a NT. The difference is that we don't have a 2nd starting safety this time.

The Pats need a few things.
RDE - This has been a huge need since Seymour left. Brace showed well at LDE last year and could take over there again if he can get healthy.

OLB - This has been a boon of the Pats for awhile. For whatever reason, they've not been able to find guys for this position.

ILB - They need that "Phifer" type 3rd ILB. A guy who can sub in for Spikes in passing situations or Sub in for Mayo should Mayo have an injury..

Safety: The Pats made a huge mistake cutting ties with James Sanders. And I bet if you asked BB at the end of the season if there were any personnel moves he regretted, that would be it. There is a whole thread on potential safety prospects.

C: With the emergence of Connolly, I have to say that Center is not as high of a priority.

TE: I can see the Pats looking at adding another TE to off-set the potential loss of one or the other to injury or free agency in 2014.

 

[patsfaninpa]

PatsfaninPa.- my guess is we go back to 3-4 if we can score a really nice OLB.

If we do go back to 3-4, who do you think we drop, Ellis, who else?

At wide receiver I'd like to sign Vincent Jackson and sorry to say drop Ocho Cinco. San Diego won't spend money on Jackson and he is only 29.

Any and all thoughts please.

I'm thinking we use more of the 3-4. Would like a 2-gap de and an olb.Ellis is actually a pretty good 3-4 end. If he takes a pay cut, maybe him and Brace man down LDE. Let's hope Fat Albert progresses and mans RDE. Would like a high pick there because of the ages of Ellis and Haynesworth. We're fine at NG with Vince and Love. Would like to keep M. Anderson as a situational pass rusher. Not sure there's a spot for A. Carter.

Trade up for Courtney Upshaw - olb - Bama. TJ McDonald - S - USC.
We need some athletes who can play. Then in Round 2 get a wr. Good draft for them. I'm using our own 2nd to move up. Maybe a C in 3RD ROUND.

In free agency, veteran safety and a veteran de if Ellis not re-upped.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

BB is and always will be a coach who uses the 3-4 as his base. Even against the Jets, when he had "4-3" personnel on the field, they were lined up with one DT on the center, a DT over an OT and one of the DE over the other OT. The last DE was usually lined up outside of the OT with his hand down, but could easily have been standing.

This defense reminds me a lot of the 2002 defense when the Pats didn't have a NT. The difference is that we don't have a 2nd starting safety this time.

The Pats need a few things.
RDE - This has been a huge need since Seymour left. Brace showed well at LDE last year and could take over there again if he can get healthy.

OLB - This has been a boon of the Pats for awhile. For whatever reason, they've not been able to find guys for this position.

These two are tied closely together, because wthout that dominant presence at the 5Tech, it makes the OLB's job much harder. Brace is the only 1st Day lineman drafted in seven years. That's a problem.

ILB - They need that "Phifer" type 3rd ILB. A guy who can sub in for Spikes in passing situations or Sub in for Mayo should Mayo have an injury..

Safety: The Pats made a huge mistake cutting ties with James Sanders. And I bet if you asked BB at the end of the season if there were any personnel moves he regretted, that would be it. There is a whole thread on potential safety prospects. Yes I agree, but they need a FS type badly. All of the safeties on the roster are more suited to play SS. It really shows in the help over the top in the pass defense.

C: With the emergence of Connolly, I have to say that Center is not as high of a priority. Completely agree

TE: I can see the Pats looking at adding another TE to off-set the potential loss of one or the other to injury or free agency in 2014.

My thoughts in bold

 

[DaBruinz]

My thoughts in bold

The Patriots don't really play strong safety/free safety. They play left and right. Yes, Chung is better against the run, but he's been shutting down some of the top TEs in the league.

If you look at the thread regarding safety prospects, you'll have a better understanding of the list that people have started.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

BB, today, has said that the switch to 43U D was b/c of the lockout. 34 2 Gap D is a lot harder to install and teach. It looks like 2011 or even 2012, might be the last season of a 43u D.

 

[jsull87]

BB is and always will be a coach who uses the 3-4 as his base. Even against the Jets, when he had "4-3" personnel on the field, they were lined up with one DT on the center, a DT over an OT and one of the DE over the other OT. The last DE was usually lined up outside of the OT with his hand down, but could easily have been standing.

This defense reminds me a lot of the 2002 defense when the Pats didn't have a NT. The difference is that we don't have a 2nd starting safety this time.

The Pats need a few things.
RDE - This has been a huge need since Seymour left. Brace showed well at LDE last year and could take over there again if he can get healthy.

OLB - This has been a boon of the Pats for awhile. For whatever reason, they've not been able to find guys for this position.

ILB - They need that "Phifer" type 3rd ILB. A guy who can sub in for Spikes in passing situations or Sub in for Mayo should Mayo have an injury..

Safety: The Pats made a huge mistake cutting ties with James Sanders. And I bet if you asked BB at the end of the season if there were any personnel moves he regretted, that would be it. There is a whole thread on potential safety prospects.

C: With the emergence of Connolly, I have to say that Center is not as high of a priority.

TE: I can see the Pats looking at adding another TE to off-set the potential loss of one or the other to injury or free agency in 2014.

In bold is what i have noticed too. I have included a centre in the 1st in my previous post but i have rethought my position. A developmental guy can really be had later if need be.

2ndly the 3rd down/passing down ILB has been a possition i have been thinking about for a while. I think having a LB who can play the pass at a high level and run with TE's (see Oakland raiders and rolando mclain, and Bears with urlacher) is becoming more and more important in this league. It could be something worth investing very highly in. It brings me back to the Arron Curry free agency thread. Could this be the type of guy pats need? One thing i have always been noticing with mayo is for a guy who's game is at such a high level, he doesn't seem to get into the passing lanes as consistently as i have notices especially from the two ILB's i have mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

In bold is what i have noticed too. I have included a centre in the 1st in my previous post but i have rethought my position. A developmental guy can really be had later if need be.

2ndly the 3rd down/passing down ILB has been a possition i have been thinking about for a while. I think having a LB who can play the pass at a high level and run with TE's (see Oakland raiders and rolando mclain, and Bears with urlacher) is becoming more and more important in this league. It could be something worth investing very highly in. It brings me back to the Arron Curry free agency thread. Could this be the type of guy pats need? One thing i have always been noticing with mayo is for a guy who's game is at such a high level, he doesn't seem to get into the passing lanes as consistently as i have notices especially from the two ILB's i have mentioned earlier in this thread.

Why sign a guy like Curry when in all probability, Hightower from Alabama will be available in the draft.

If we came out of the first round of the draft with Upshaw and Hightower from Alabama, I would be extremely excited.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Why sign a guy like Curry when in all probability, Hightower from Alabama will be available in the draft.

If we came out of the first round of the draft with Upshaw and Hightower from Alabama, I would be extremely excited.

I would even trade up for Upshaw depending on how he works out. Want to know if he has enough speed. Sure looks it. Will even trade up if that's what it takes. And, I think it will. I think the upgrade you get from Hightower to Spikes isn't worth a 1st round pick. You're marginally upgrading a position on 1st or 2nd down. He'll be out on 3rd anyway. I'd like to get a safety. Or, god forbid draft two olb's. Yes, I said two!! And, trading up for the first one. I'm thinking Vinny Curry.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I would even trade up for Upshaw depending on how he works out. Want to know if he has enough speed. Sure looks it. Will even trade up if that's what it takes. And, I think it will. I think the upgrade you get from Hightower to Spikes isn't worth a 1st round pick. You're marginally upgrading a position on 1st or 2nd down. He'll be out on 3rd anyway. I'd like to get a safety. Or, god forbid draft two olb's. Yes, I said two!! And, trading up for the first one. I'm thinking Vinny Curry.

Vinny Curry could be special as a 3-4 OLB. He needs to work on hand fighting, but he has some suddenness and explosion. Decent good shoulder dip and a nice rip move.
He reminds me a bit of Mathis and that scares me because these are the guys we like and BB passes on every year.

 

[rdf63]

Patriots would be able to fill major defensive holes and one OL issue with the following picks. We need OLB, DL, Safety and a center in the next picks and a solid ILB would be very helpful.
1.Zack Brown, LB, North Carolina
1.Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State
2.Mark Barron, S, Alabama
2.Donta' Hightower, ILB, Alabama
3.William Vlachos, C, Alabama
Since Marcus Cannon will be able to play and potentially start and most of the offense is fine, the 2012 draft can rebuild the defense quickly.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Patriots would be able to fill major defensive holes and one OL issue with the following picks. We need OLB, DL, Safety and a center in the next picks and a solid ILB would be very helpful.
1.Zack Brown, LB, North Carolina
1.Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State
2.Mark Barron, S, Alabama
2.Donta' Hightower, ILB, Alabama
3.William Vlachos, C, Alabama
Since Marcus Cannon will be able to play and potentially start and most of the offense is fine, the 2012 draft can rebuild the defense quickly.

If we're sticking with the 4-3, I like the first 3 picks. But, Hightower wouldn't really have a position. We'd have Mayo and Brown on the outside. Both would be 3-down linebackers. Hightower is only a marginal upgrade over Spikes. And, he'd be coming out as soon as we go nickel. I'd like to improve the pass rush more, Go with a 4-3 de with our first 2nd rounder. Hope a safety falls to 2b.

 

[RJB87]

...

The Pats need a few things.
RDE - This has been a huge need since Seymour left. Brace showed well at LDE last year and could take over there again if he can get healthy.

OLB - This has been a boon of the Pats for awhile. For whatever reason, they've not been able to find guys for this position.

ILB - They need that "Phifer" type 3rd ILB. A guy who can sub in for Spikes in passing situations or Sub in for Mayo should Mayo have an injury..

Safety: The Pats made a huge mistake cutting ties with James Sanders. And I bet if you asked BB at the end of the season if there were any personnel moves he regretted, that would be it. There is a whole thread on potential safety prospects.

...

That would be Gary Guyton. If Spikes keeps playing at this level our "weakest" LB spot is the SAM. Even then, Ninkovich isn't all that bad. But if we do back to a true 3-4 next year we would need an OLB.

I do agree with your point about 3-4/4-3 nonsense. Those are really just numbers for the media to throw around. Fact of the matter is defense is a week-by-week scheme and even a lot of the teams running 3-4s are using a 4-3 type alignment.

 

[DaBruinz]

That would be Gary Guyton. If Spikes keeps playing at this level our "weakest" LB spot is the SAM. Even then, Ninkovich isn't all that bad. But if we do back to a true 3-4 next year we would need an OLB.

I do agree with your point about 3-4/4-3 nonsense. Those are really just numbers for the media to throw around. Fact of the matter is defense is a week-by-week scheme and even a lot of the teams running 3-4s are using a 4-3 type alignment.

Gary Guyton stinks. He is NOT even close to being like Roman Phifer. Phifer could actually cover AND tackle. Guyton can't seem to do either.

 

[RJB87]

Whats your basis of saying that Guyton stinks? I know a lot of teams would kill to have him be their back up signal caller on Defense.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Whats your basis of saying that Guyton stinks? I know a lot of teams would kill to have him be their back up signal caller on Defense.

As Guyton's #1 hater, allow me to explain. He has no burst whatsoever. His 4.5 speed is not evident in small areas at all. I see passes completed with ease in his zone because qbs know he doesn't have the acceleration to jump it. Without burst, he is incapable of delivering hits to jar balls loose.

Lastly, watch the way he plays the run. He plays extremely safe, too safe. Diagnoses waay to slow and is almost always blocked. Even if it is designed for him to take on certain blocks, hes always driven a few yards back. I would always run directly at guyton. Teams that are horrible against the run could use him(colts) but i have from day 1 thought that we could easily do better.

 

[Sciz]

And Guyton is a free agent this coming offseason...

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Gary Guyton stinks. He is NOT even close to being like Roman Phifer. Phifer could actually cover AND tackle. Guyton can't seem to do either.

I have to agree with this 100%.

However has anybody noticed that with Mayo out, the defense has played better with Guyton on the field? There could be other factors, like the Romo effect, or it could be a poorly disguised slam on Mayo.

 

[Destroyer]

Assuming we keep our first four picks I'd like to see

1a. Alameda Ta'amu, DT, Washington
1b. Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall
2a. Markelle Martin, S, Oklahoma State
2b. Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama(easy first round talent, but all the legal issues and being kicked off of Florida will drop him out of it.)

 

[rdf63]

If we're sticking with the 4-3, I like the first 3 picks. But, Hightower wouldn't really have a position. We'd have Mayo and Brown on the outside. Both would be 3-down linebackers. Hightower is only a marginal upgrade over Spikes. And, he'd be coming out as soon as we go nickel. I'd like to improve the pass rush more, Go with a 4-3 de with our first 2nd rounder. Hope a safety falls to 2b.

I agree with the Hightower thought and it really depends on the play of Spikes. I see improvements in Spikes but with the recent release of Bodden, return of Brace, Haynesworth durability, Dowling's capabilities (better fit at CB or safety?), Cunningham's play, it appears a lot of next years picks will depend on their play for the rest of the year.

 

[pherein]

I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Even Peyton Manning. But, I actually like Drew Brees and the Saints. They seem like the NFC version of the Pats. I woe begotten franchise that turned it around led by a qb. Sean Payton publicly praises the Pats and BB as an organization to pattern yourself after. Wouldn't bother me if we meet them in the Super Bowl. End up with picks 31, 32. Heck, we could pick 33 if the Raiders stink. Which is always possible.

Cool of you to say. We are trying to emulate the Patriots in the NFC. Payton is a better coach now than he was in 2006, and he uses a lot of BB's sayings, like "just do your job". We are not there yet, but we are clearly modeling the Saints after the Patriots and their stability and work ethic. We have a long way to go, but were hoping Sean can come close to what BB has created in NE, and its a good model for teams to follow.