Patriots at Raiders post-game thread

[BradyManny]

Here's what an unbiased source said about Campbell's production. From Rotoworld:



Jason Campbell - Oakland Raiders - 2011 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

I'm fine dismissing numbers and evaluating this Patriots defense by what we see on the field, or what we see on tape.

The defense has played poorly to this point, and quite frankly, worse than the numbers suggest since they have - to their credit - bailed themselves out with huge plays each week. If not for those plays, the numbers would look even worse.

In their defense (in defense of the defense, I should say) - they are dealing with a rather absurd amount of key injuries right now.

But to sugarcoat their play so far, or their play yesterday, is not right. They did a good job against McFadden, but other than that, the defense was a sieve. The pass defense continues to struggle mightily.

I expect - and hope - this defense looks better with Haynesworth, Bodden, Wright, Dowling, Mayo all on the field at the same time. Or available to be on the field at the same time. But in their absences, we are giving serious reps to guys without a lot of experience, or without a tremendous amount of talent. You can only coach them up so much.

 

[JackBauer]

Honestly, I don't think the run defense was a problem. Save for a couple of big plays, it's was....okay. Not great, but okay.

The pass defense is beyond hideous. The safeties are brutal. Chung is okay - and he's playing with one arm. The rest of 'em? Garbage.

The LB's kill me. Can't cover, can't read.....serious concern when your only good linebacker is out for at least a month.

Corners - for the love of whatever is holy - tackle, look for the ball....show me something!

Mayo isn't their only good linebacker.

Must kill you to see Ocho getting better by the game, eh?

 

[Ring 6]

I disagree.

Allowing 21 points and also getting three INT returns into the red zone is better than allowing 21 points and not getting any turnovers.

Allowing 3 points on a drive that the opponent starts in your red zone is a better accomplishment than allowing 3 points on a drive that starts on their own 20.

Right, I was generalizing. Of course scoring on defense is a difference.
I meant the difference between bend but don't break vs risky big play defense, which I think was clear from the context but may not have been.

 

[condon84]

You keep repeating your stats, Gameboy.

While you're at it, why don't you polish your Dan Fouts doll?

Some of us here, actually watched the 2001 NFL season and saw the 2003 and 2004 bend but don't break defenses. Some of us joined this site BEFORE you got excited about 50 TD's in a year by Brady.

It's called football.

Ever wonder WHY McFadden only had 14 carries????? Ever wonder WHY Antonio Gates didn't have one catch a couple of weeks ago??????

Of course, you don't think about those things. You can't quantify those kind of things on your little spreadsheet.

It's called strategy. It's why Ali beat Foreman in Zaire. It's why the Patriots beat the Greatest Show on Turf in SB 36. It's why Belichick's defensive gameplan against the Unstoppa-Bills from the 1990 Super Bowl is enshrined in Canton.

Look it up on your computer between your visits to Stratomatic Baseball sites.

So now you compare this year's defense to those SB years? You really are delusional.

In your pea brain, a poster joining this site prior to 2008 must only became a fan after the 07 season. That basically sums it up how your little brain works.

 

[D-Money]

Schmessy is dilusional like most pats fan here that arent looking beyond the 3-1 record.

 

[PatsDeb]

Schmessy is dilusional like most pats fan here that arent looking beyond the 3-1 record.

Why do guys like you show up when the team has a winning record and denigrate long time posters who offer steady thoughtful posts as delusional homers? This is a Pats fan site, for God's sake. If you want to consistently bash the Pats (or disguise it with, I'm "happy" about the 3-1 record, but we absolutely suck), then go over to one of the numerous Jets boards. You'll be much "happier" there.

People who remain positive about the Pats at 3-1 (after a loss where the QB on offense [not defense] threw 4 picks and we still only lost by 3 pts. in the last minute of the game) with a D that we hope is a work in progress are not delusional homers. We are optomistic fans who enjoy our team. Try it some time, you may get even "happier."

 

[sbpatfan]

Why do guys like you show up when the team has a winning record and denigrate long time posters who offer steady thoughtful posts as delusional homers? This is a Pats fan site, for God's sake. If you want to consistently bash the Pats (or disguise it with, I'm "happy" about the 3-1 record, but we absolutely suck), then go over to one of the numerous Jets boards. You'll be much "happier" there.

People who remain positive about the Pats at 3-1 (after a loss where the QB on offense [not defense] threw 4 picks and we still only lost by 3 pts. in the last minute of the game) with a D that we hope is a work in progress are not delusional homers. We are optomistic fans who enjoy our team. Try it some time, you may get even "happier."

Don't worry about Dmoney, all the dude does is get on here and *****. He's either a troll or constantly depressed individual. If he was a Dolphins or Jets fan he probably would have killed himself by now.

 

[shmessy]

So now you compare this year's defense to those SB years? You really are delusional.

In your pea brain, a poster joining this site prior to 2008 must only became a fan after the 07 season. That basically sums it up how your little brain works.

That, and your complete reliance on stats exposes everything about how you understand the game, Gameboy.

You and D-Money both joined here after the record breaking stat year and rely completely on stats without looking to see the strategy playing out on the field.

Gameboys both.

 

[D-Money]

A work in progress?I havent seen anything yet to make me think things are gonna better on defense.I know its a pats forum but whats wrong with criticism?I am concerned about my team's defensive struggles.Its been a problem for the last 2 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Geez!

 

[shmessy]

A work in progress?I havent seen anything yet to make me think things are gonna better on defense.I know its a pats forum but whats wrong with criticism?I am concerned about my team's defensive struggles.Its been a problem for the last 2 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Geez!

There's plenty to criticize.

I have been consistently criticizing BB for giving up Merriwether and Sanders for ZILCH and leaving the safety position woefully undermanned and weak.

Your stats-based points about the Pats D playing lousy yesterday, without any understanding that the D did exactly what BB strategized it to do, though shows you are probably here because the Sox died last Wednesday.

 

[condon84]

Why do guys like you show up when the team has a winning record and denigrate long time posters who offer steady thoughtful posts as delusional homers? This is a Pats fan site, for God's sake. If you want to consistently bash the Pats (or disguise it with, I'm "happy" about the 3-1 record, but we absolutely suck), then go over to one of the numerous Jets boards. You'll be much "happier" there.

People who remain positive about the Pats at 3-1 (after a loss where the QB on offense [not defense] threw 4 picks and we still only lost by 3 pts. in the last minute of the game) with a D that we hope is a work in progress are not delusional homers. We are optomistic fans who enjoy our team. Try it some time, you may get even "happier."

Shmessy posts are not thoughtful. His insights suggests that he was in the defensive meeting with BB and his staff and how they executed the plan to a perfection. It's BS.

I can sit here and romanticize the game just like him, but I'm commenting on the actual game we saw and not the idea of what he wanted to see. Comparisons to the SB years, to Ali/Frazer, etc., this guy is comedy. All those comparisons have NOTHING to do with the game yesterday. Neither is the fact that I joined this site in 08 or any other irrelevant arguments he's made.

So with all due respect to long time posters, this guy is a nutjob.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Shmessy: The issue with BB to me is not giving away both safeties for zilch. I could not care less if he got middling picks that some (not me) felt were there for the taking. The issue is that he did not have capable replacements. Why Sanders is gone is a mystery to me. Please, no replies about cap space, We have plenty. Bill must be delusional about Sergio et. al.

 

[D-Money]

I am not looking for the superbowl years defense.I am looking for a defense that can get stops consistently.You can sugarcoat it all u want but BB built this defense and it hasnt exactly worked out.

 

[shmessy]

I am not looking for the superbowl years defense.I am looking for a defense that can get stops consistently.You can sugarcoat it all u want but BB built this defense and it hasnt exactly worked out.

And that exposes you, Kiddo. It's all about the Super Bowl here. Not style or stats. WINNING and SITUATIONS.

Although the season is still young, so far no team in the NFL has played more games on the road this year than the New England Patriots who are tied for the best record in the AFC.

The Pats already are one up on their biggest rival, the Jets, when it comes to playing a common opponent. In fact, against that common opponent the Patriots gave up 20 points while the defense-strong Jets gave up 34.

Lemme ask you, D-Money, which "tie-breaker" for playoff seeding is "total yardage"??????? Does it come before won-loss, common opponents or intra-divisional?????

Does it come before or after "uniform design"???????

It "hasn't exactly worked out"?????? Though there's no telling what will happen in the future, it's worked out VERY WELL for the Patriots so far.

However, if you are nothing more than a Fantasy Football geek, I can see why you'd be writing that stuff.

 

[Metaphors]

Shmessy: The issue with BB to me is not giving away both safeties for zilch. I could not care less if he got middling picks that some (not me) felt were there for the taking. The issue is that he did not have capable replacements. Why Sanders is gone is a mystery to me. Please, no replies about cap space, We have plenty. Bill must be delusional about Sergio et. al.

I think Sanders had run out of upside and wasn't considered championship caliber. That seems to be a quick ticket out of town. Not like he has gone to Atlanta (a team needing help in the secondary) and made everyone forget that other Sanders.

Once you hit 27, you better be a stalwart at your role for the Pats. It doesn't have to be as a starter (Connolly has carved himself quite a niche as a super-sub) as long as the player is content in their role. If you aren't improving and are possibly even regressing, then you are just blocking the development of someone else. Sergio (please hit someone) and Barrett (please find someone to hit) will almost certainly be better in January than they are now. Belichick is taking the chance that with proper coaching, the learning curve won't lead to losses in the short term (hasn't so far) and the trajectory will be high enough to win a championship (remains to be seen).

While that may seem a little reckless, I'm sure it sends the right message in the locker room. Unless you are Brady, Mankins or Wilfork, you need to improve every practice, every game or someone else will get a chance. I think Belichick genuinely liked Sanders and appreciated having him on the team. But once you compromise on your approach, the locker room gets mixed messages on expectations. The reason why guys like BJGE, Edelperson, Wright, Love, Arrington, etc emerge is because they believe that hard work (not cap hit or draft status) will lead to opportunities...and opportunities will lead to realized potential.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why do guys like you show up when the team has a winning record and denigrate long time posters who offer steady thoughtful posts as delusional homers? This is a Pats fan site, for God's sake. If you want to consistently bash the Pats (or disguise it with, I'm "happy" about the 3-1 record, but we absolutely suck), then go over to one of the numerous Jets boards. You'll be much "happier" there.

1.) They get called homers because they are homers. Also, one can be a fan without being a homer, so there's no need for non-homers to go to a Jets board.

2.) The homers spend a lot of their time bashing everyone who posts anything that's not glowingly positive with regards to the Patriots. That sword cuts both ways.

People who remain positive about the Pats at 3-1 (after a loss where the QB on offense [not defense] threw 4 picks and we still only lost by 3 pts. in the last minute of the game) with a D that we hope is a work in progress are not delusional homers. We are optomistic fans who enjoy our team. Try it some time, you may get even "happier."

One can remain positive without going full Jonestown.

 

[MoVaughn4Prez]

Shmessy: The issue with BB to me is not giving away both safeties for zilch. I could not care less if he got middling picks that some (not me) felt were there for the taking. The issue is that he did not have capable replacements. Why Sanders is gone is a mystery to me. Please, no replies about cap space, We have plenty. Bill must be delusional about Sergio et. al.

your opinion is not valid because you are not an NFL head coach

 

[Rob0729]

I am not looking for the superbowl years defense.I am looking for a defense that can get stops consistently.You can sugarcoat it all u want but BB built this defense and it hasnt exactly worked out.

You do realize the 2001 defense was the 24th best defense in the league that year giving up 335 yards or so a game? True story.

 

[shmessy]

Shmessy: The issue with BB to me is not giving away both safeties for zilch. I could not care less if he got middling picks that some (not me) felt were there for the taking. The issue is that he did not have capable replacements. Why Sanders is gone is a mystery to me. Please, no replies about cap space, We have plenty. Bill must be delusional about Sergio et. al.

I completely agree - - although I would have understood it a bit more if he got SOMETHING instead of just saying sayonnara.

Leaving us with only Chung and a bunch of jags at safety to me is still inexplicable.

 

[shmessy]

You do realize the 2001 defense was the 24th best defense in the league that year giving up 335 yards or so a game? True story.

Yeah, but it was before the 2007 season.