Flankers: OutSide LineBackers

[Off The Grid]

I love Ryan Kerrigan and Aldon Smith, and I strongly suspect that they go a LOT later than most of you are thinking!!

 

[bucky]

This is true. The nutritionists and medical staffs will custom a diet to each player depending on a huge variety of issues. They will take blood before, during and after the season and learn all kinds of things about how each players body responds and reacts to different foods, supplements and vitamins. It's top notch stuff but only if the players follow it.

Clayborn looks maxed out to me as far as weight goes, I agree that if he loses 15 to 20 pounds, he would be an intriguing candidate for OLB. I lot of guys get mental blocks about not having their hand in the dirt. Not sure if Clayborn is one of them, but he seems to me like the type that would enjoy mixing it up with the big boys more than covering TE's and RB's out of the backfield.

PS: Saw Cuunningham in coverage twice during the Lions game and it was ugly with a capital U.

Claiborne's never played from a 2 pt stance, nor dropped into coverage. So there's too much speculation on him to assume he would be a 1st round OLB prospect for the Pats. And it's almost a guarantee he'll be gone in the 1st round.

I've always thought he'd make a great DE in a 3-4. But if he truly is too heavy for his frame (which I don't pretend to know anything about), then he simple isn't a fit for us.

 

[p8ryts]

Bruce Miller, DE, UCF 6-2 248, next Dane Fletcher.

 

[p8ryts]

Adrian Clayborn- Watched him the first quarter of the bowl game and he didn't show me anything. No first step, no push, no speed, no pursuit, play went right and he just stood and watched, Didn't look like anybody we would want.

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

DaQuan Bowers Scouting Report


Draft CountDown



DaQuan Bowers commands an astonishing fusion of Gravitational Integrity, Explosive Launch, and Relentless Motor: He's the rare Flanker who can Rush the QuarterBack AND Crush the Run with equal ferocity.

Chances are: He goes in the Top 5, even the Top 3.

But if, by any chance, he should slip...

Bowers disappeared in the Car Bowl, not worth a high first round choice for this team

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Bowers disappeared in the Car Bowl, not worth a high first round choice for this team

He disappeared? I only got to watch half the game, granted, but he completely shut down the run to his side, and often flushed the quarterback from the pocket. His pressure directly led to one scramble wherein the QB got sacked. He wasn't flashy, certainly, but he did precisely what he was asked to do within the defensive parameters. I think he's worth the investment, personally, if he somehow escapes the top ten.

 

[Off The Grid]

Have y'all been hearing the craziness coming out'f the Colorado School of Mines Pro Day??

Nose Tackle Blaine Sumner beat Stephen Paea's record on the Bench Reps with 52...

And here's a new name for potential Flankers: A bit short ~ 6.28 ~ for my tastes, but as fresh legs to just possibly usher Tully Cain down the road, he's interesting, to say the LEAST:

Marc Schliechl ~ Colorado Mines ~ 6.3/255

Information on Marc Schliechl is thin, but we do know this much:

1 ~ The Kirwan Explosion Index suggests that anyone who scores a 70 or more on aggregate Vertical Jump, Bench Reps, and Broad Jump has, at the very least, the raw skills to be a powerfull, powerfull Force attacking the Line of Scrimmage and the QuarterBack. And Schliechl, with 38 Bench Reps, a 35 Vertical, and a 10 Broad Jump, scored an OUTRAGEOUS 83!!

2 ~ Yes, but can he do it on the field?? Well, it's Division II, but he can't help that, now can he? And Jerry Rice was Division II, of course...How does 46 Sacks in 4 years, to set an all time D2 record, sound??

 

[andrewgarrr]

Have y'all been hearing the craziness coming out'f the Colorado School of Mines Pro Day??

Nose Tackle Blaine Sumner beat Stephen Paea's record on the Bench Reps with 52...

And here's a new name for potential Flankers: A bit short ~ 6.28 ~ for my tastes, but as fresh legs to just possibly usher Tully Cain down the road, he's interesting, to say the LEAST:

Marc Schliechl ~ Colorado Mines ~ 6.3/255

Information on Marc Schliechl is thin, but we do know this much:

1 ~ The Kirwan Explosion Index suggests that anyone who scores a 70 or more on aggregate Vertical Jump, Bench Reps, and Broad Jump has, at the very least, the raw skills to be a powerfull, powerfull Force attacking the Line of Scrimmage and the QuarterBack. And Schliechl, with 38 Bench Reps, a 35 Vertical, and a 10 Broad Jump, scored an OUTRAGEOUS 83!!

2 ~ Yes, but can he do it on the field?? Well, it's Division II, but he can't help that, now can he? And Jerry Rice was Division II, of course...How does 46 Sacks in 4 years, to set an all time D2 record, sound??

52 reps at 255? Holy crap...

Sounds like a BB type 7th rounder or UFA.

 

[Snake Eyes]

52 reps at 255? Holy crap...

Sounds like a BB type 7th rounder or UFA.

No, the Nose tackle who weighs 335lb was the one who put up that bench.

YouTube - Blaine Sumner - Skills Evaluation Film

I'd love to see what he can do after a year of functional strength training instead of that silly powerlifting. Anyway, both of these guys seem like magnificent practice squad pickups.

 

[cstjohn17]

I love Ryan Kerrigan and Aldon Smith, and I strongly suspect that they go a LOT later than most of you are thinking!!

I am sure this has been posted before but I am seeing it now for the first time, Kerrigan played TE in high school. Just like other former binkies and Mike Vrabel.

It seems so obvious that it will never work. He has; the size to play LOLB, the college production; the attitude, played TE, etc.

Plus he is slow, which fits the Patriots MO at OLB perfectly.

" had 40 receptions for 789 yards (19.7 average) and six touchdowns as tight end "
NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

 

[Off The Grid]

I am sure this has been posted before but I am seeing it now for the first time, Kerrigan played TE in high school. Just like other former binkies and Mike Vrabel.

It seems so obvious that it will never work. He has; the size to play LOLB, the college production; the attitude, played TE, etc.

Plus he is slow, which fits the Patriots MO at OLB perfectly.

" had 40 receptions for 789 yards (19.7 average) and six touchdowns as tight end "
NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

Holy crap!! That's awesome!!

I had NO idea!! Well DONE, sir!! :rocker:

 

[silenthuntr7]

Long time lurker, but I love this breakdown.

However, I disagree with you regarding Justin Houston. I really believe he has the explosiveness to succeed at this level, and I think (as a pure edge rusher) he's the second best OLB in the draft, behind Von Miller. He also has 3-4 experience at Georgia, and seems like a high-character, solid guy to build a team around. I have a feeling the pats might take him at 17 over more highly thought of players (on this board), such as Kerrigan or Smith.

Thoughts?

 

[Patriot Missile]

Long time lurker, but I love this breakdown.

However, I disagree with you regarding Justin Houston. I really believe he has the explosiveness to succeed at this level, and I think (as a pure edge rusher) he's the second best OLB in the draft, behind Von Miller. He also has 3-4 experience at Georgia, and seems like a high-character, solid guy to build a team around. I have a feeling the pats might take him at 17 over more highly thought of players (on this board), such as Kerrigan or Smith.

Thoughts?

My thought would be massive dissapointment if they even think of taking Houston or Ayers while Kerrigan and Smith are still on the board. Did you watch those drills in the combine? Those are some of the most basic drills a LB will ever come across. Lateral ablity and back pedaling drills were not so good for Houston. Ive learned not to count anybody out because many players prove the populace wrong so if BB likes him then I like him for reasons unknown to me. There is the fall back statement just incase it happens.

 

[Off The Grid]

Long time lurker, but I love this breakdown.

However, I disagree with you regarding Justin Houston. I really believe he has the explosiveness to succeed at this level, and I think (as a pure edge rusher) he's the second best OLB in the draft, behind Von Miller. He also has 3-4 experience at Georgia, and seems like a high-character, solid guy to build a team around. I have a feeling the pats might take him at 17 over more highly thought of players (on this board), such as Kerrigan or Smith.

Thoughts?

AWESOME, Bro. Thanks for the kind words.

Regarding Justin Houston, I'm actually a fan of his, but I question his fit here. Here's my blurb on him:

***

Justin Houston ~ 6.27/270

Justin Houston brings a tremendous fusion of Speed, Power, Passion, and Tenacity to the table.

As a Pass Rusher, he commands an absolutely terrific Burst out of the Blocks, an extremely lengthy Wing Span, enormous Hands, excellent Lateral Velocity, and terrifying Closing Speed. His repertoire does need a great deal of development, mind you.

As a Run Defender, he wasn't as stout or Strong as he needed to be, last year, so he promptly went out and added 10 pounds of solid beef to an already strong Core. And then he went and blasted a 4.57 "40" at his Pro Day!!

And his grade on my Adjusted Kirwan Explosion Index is a lofty 66: 30 Reps plus a 36 Vertical. EXPLOSIVE.

He's a relentless Gym Rat. And his Work Ethic is absolutely outstanding. Above all, in my book, are the good grades he gets for Diagnostic Skills + Processing Speed. He's not infallible in the mental aspect of the Game, by any means, but he's clearly sharp and increasingly instinctive, and ahead of the curve. Just as importantly, he strikes me as a guy with the relentless focus to do the work it takes to pull farther away from the pack, the further along he goes...to become exceptional.

***

I've come around on this lad, but not to the extent that I'd be comfortable drafting him in the Top 64, when there're other guys I'd much rather get. For one thing, he wasn't very good against the Run, historically. The mass he's added may very well be enough to alleviate that, and his work ethic goes a long way with me, but that would be an hell of a gamble. The other thing is his height. 6.27 is really pushing it in our scheme, and if we're going to spend a Top 64 pick on a guy who is presumably being tagged to challenge or supplant Rob Ninkovich, I want at LEAST 6.40.

***

Even so, I like the kid, and I think he's going to do very well.

 

[silenthuntr7]

My thought would be massive dissapointment if they even think of taking Houston or Ayers while Kerrigan and Smith are still on the board. Did you watch those drills in the combine? Those are some of the most basic drills a LB will ever come across. Lateral ablity and back pedaling drills were not so good for Houston. Ive learned not to count anybody out because many players prove the populace wrong so if BB likes him then I like him for reasons unknown to me. There is the fall back statement just incase it happens.

Umm...I don't quite understand. By all accounts, Justin Houston WOWED at the combine, putting up as good as/better numbers than Smith and Kerrigan across the board. My hang-up on him is that I don't quite see that transferred to film, but to attack Houston on combine numbers while raising the aforementioned two above him seems...counter to your argument, to say the least.

Broad Jump: Houston: 10'05" Smith: 9'10" Kerrigan: 10'02"
10 yard Split (let's get real, 40 yards don't matter): Houston: 1.62 Smith: 1.66 Kerrigan: 1.61
3 Cone Drill (lateral ability, agility): Houston: 6.95 Smith: 7.19 Kerrigan: 7.18
20 yard shuttle (again, lateral agility): Houston: 4.37 Smith: 4.50 Kerrigan: 4.39

From those, it seems like Houston and Kerrigan are both 1st round talents (Houston having a slight edge), and Smith doesn't really compare all that well for a possible top-15 pick.

 

[silenthuntr7]

I've come around on this lad, but not to the extent that I'd be comfortable drafting him in the Top 64, when there're other guys I'd much rather get. For one thing, he wasn't very good against the Run, historically. The mass he's added may very well be enough to alleviate that, and his work ethic goes a long way with me, but that would be an hell of a gamble. The other thing is his height. 6.27 is really pushing it in our scheme, and if we're going to spend a Top 64 pick on a guy who is presumably being tagged to challenge or supplant Rob Ninkovich, I want at LEAST 6.40.

I agree with your concerns here. My main concerns with Houston is that he doesn't always transfer his measurables to the tape, and isn't an ideal height/run blocker. However, I feel like this team needs an EXPLOSIVE pass rusher badly, and Houston's as good as any in this draft (save Von Miller).

I think this draft will test Belichick's 'ideal' measurables for a OLB. Say if Kerrigan and Quinn are both gone by 17, but Bowers (who seems to be dropping like a rock) and Houston are still on the board with Smith, does Belichick go with the measurables guy in Smith, or with better production in Bowers, or with better 'stats' in Houston?

Only time will tell.

 

[Off The Grid]

My thought would be massive dissapointment if they even think of taking Houston or Ayers while Kerrigan and Smith are still on the board. Did you watch those drills in the combine? Those are some of the most basic drills a LB will ever come across. Lateral ablity and back pedaling drills were not so good for Houston. Ive learned not to count anybody out because many players prove the populace wrong so if BB likes him then I like him for reasons unknown to me. There is the fall back statement just incase it happens.

Ah, nice points.

1 ~ Indeed, my core position is that if we're going to spend SERIOUS Draft Capital on Flanker, we might as well go Whole Hog and grab Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan...Otherwise, I cannot justify the investment at that level, and would much rather scoop up Greg Romeus in the Mid Rounds, D'Aundre Reed in the Late Rounds, take a Late Round or Free Agent flier or three on Christian Anthony, Craig Marshall, and Marc Schliechl...and steal Matthias Kiwanuka from the Giants!!!

2 ~ The combination of Kevin O'Connell in the 3rd, the Richard Seymour trade, and the Derrick Burgess trade ~ along with other highly dubious undertakings ~ precipitated my departure from the In Bill We Trust Club. But there is no question that he is the greatest of them all, and when he signs off on a player, that goes a long way towards ME signing off on a player, Coach Bill's raving insanity not withstanding.

 

[silenthuntr7]

After taking time to collect my thoughts, I've come to see that most of my thinking falls along one line of thought...

I'm not at all sold on Aldon Smith.

To me, physically, he's just not there. His numbers fall behind both Kerrigan and Houston, and the one number that really sticks out is his short shuttle time, at a VERY pedestrian 4.5. That one number really jumps out at me, and not in a good way. NFL linebackers simply do not succeed with that time.

There's no question that he has 'it' on tape. He's very smooth, has good moves, and gets to the QB. However, we have limited tape on him, because he's just a Redshirt Sophomore, and last year was impacted by his leg injury. Thus, he (like a lot of other players in this draft, unfortunately) had one very good year, and it wasn't last year, further adding to my concerns with picking him at 17.

I'm also not totally buying into in BB I trust, but if BB picks him, some of my concerns will be allayed. However, I just have this feeling that he's not what we need.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Ah, nice points.

1 ~ Indeed, my core position is that if we're going to spend SERIOUS Draft Capital on Flanker, we might as well go Whole Hog and grab Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan...Otherwise, I cannot justify the investment at that level, and would much rather scoop up Greg Romeus in the Mid Rounds, D'Aundre Reed in the Late Rounds, take a Late Round or Free Agent flier or three on Christian Anthony, Craig Marshall, and Marc Schliechl...and steal Matthias Kiwanuka from the Giants!!!

Greg Romeus is a huge enigma to me and I sometimes wonder why the media doesn't talk more about this guy. He absolutely could be the steal of the draft if he comes back healthy and gets back into football shape. He is the perfect story waiting to happen kind of like Curtis Martin. <Same team too. A team is going to take a chance on him and if the scenario of no LBs in the first couple of rounds somehow does play itself out then I hope you are right and we do gamble. I see a lot of mocks from Pats fans taking him at 125, I don't see him lasting that long if he gets a decent bill of health.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Umm...I don't quite understand. By all accounts, Justin Houston WOWED at the combine, putting up as good as/better numbers than Smith and Kerrigan across the board. My hang-up on him is that I don't quite see that transferred to film, but to attack Houston on combine numbers while raising the aforementioned two above him seems...counter to your argument, to say the least.

Broad Jump: Houston: 10'05" Smith: 9'10" Kerrigan: 10'02"
10 yard Split (let's get real, 40 yards don't matter): Houston: 1.62 Smith: 1.66 Kerrigan: 1.61
3 Cone Drill (lateral ability, agility): Houston: 6.95 Smith: 7.19 Kerrigan: 7.18
20 yard shuttle (again, lateral agility): Houston: 4.37 Smith: 4.50 Kerrigan: 4.39

From those, it seems like Houston and Kerrigan are both 1st round talents (Houston having a slight edge), and Smith doesn't really compare all that well for a possible top-15 pick.

Yep, the numbers are comparable if not better; yet, when you watched him in the reaction drills (the coaches use for testing linebackers) with your eyes and not your stopwatch, it really stood out that he was off balance and very uncomfortable. It was clear he had not been training for OLB as a real option despite playing it for an entire season for Georgia.

I made an effort to watch the top rated OLB prospects in at least one game last fall, and in the case of Houston, Smith, Kerrigan, Bowers, Reed, and Miller, I saw all of them at least twice. Houston and Smith weren't carrying first round grades in my book despite all the hype. Reed was also a second or third. Bowers, Miller, and Kerrigan did have first round grades, though as pass rushers go I was more comfortable with Miller and Kerrigan.

At the Combine Miller and Kerrigan looked comfortable and in control reacting to the coaches' signals, as did Smith. The Combine confirmed or enhanced what I'd already seen on my TV screen, which is why if you are thinking OLB for Houston and Smith, I'm only interested if they fall to the second round. Considering their explosion off the edge, someone will draft them for a pin your ears back edge rusher slot, but I'd bet against NE going that way.

Welcome!