Flankers: OutSide LineBackers

[reflexblue]

I know Aldon Smith has been mentioned A LOT going back to last season, he has great measurables. I watched him play three games, i really didnt' see him do much. So what am i missing?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I know Aldon Smith has been mentioned A LOT going back to last season, he has great measurables. I watched him play three games, i really didnt' see him do much. So what am i missing?

You got that Missouri state motto thing going haven't you?

 

[Off The Grid]

I've come around on this lad, but not to the extent that I'd be comfortable drafting him in the Top 64, when there're other guys I'd much rather get. For one thing, he wasn't very good against the Run, historically. The mass he's added may very well be enough to alleviate that, and his work ethic goes a long way with me, but that would be an hell of a gamble. The other thing is his height. 6.27 is really pushing it in our scheme, and if we're going to spend a Top 64 pick on a guy who is presumably being tagged to challenge or supplant Rob Ninkovich, I want at LEAST 6.40.

I agree with your concerns here. My main concerns with Houston is that he doesn't always transfer his measurables to the tape, and isn't an ideal height/run blocker. However, I feel like this team needs an EXPLOSIVE pass rusher badly, and Houston's as good as any in this draft (save Von Miller).

I think this draft will test Belichick's 'ideal' measurables for a OLB. Say if Kerrigan and Quinn are both gone by 17, but Bowers (who seems to be dropping like a rock) and Houston are still on the board with Smith, does Belichick go with the measurables guy in Smith, or with better production in Bowers, or with better 'stats' in Houston?

Only time will tell.

Well, I'd go with Production, with a side of Combine Stats.

But if I'm spending Top 64 Capital on a Flanker, he'd BETTER be 6.40, or close TO it.

So for my money, that leaves out everybody but Aldon Smith at 6.42 and Ryan Kerrigan, who is 6.37.

Honestly, I cannot imagine he goes for Justin Hoosten.

You mention this Draft Class "testing" his ideal measurables, which seems to imply that he might either be under duress or admire a prospect so strongly that he considers making an exception. Well, he already chucked the "ideal" bit with Jermaine Cunningham, last year, so you certainly have a leg to stand on, there. But I have an hard time imagining, what with Cunningham and Rob Ninkovich in house and very likely to improve greatly, this year, that he'll go THAT far away from the "ideal" with such an expensive pick.

Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED.

 

[silenthuntr7]

Greg Romeus is a huge enigma to me and I sometimes wonder why the media doesn't talk more about this guy. He absolutely could be the steal of the draft if he comes back healthy and gets back into football shape. He is the perfect story waiting to happen kind of like Curtis Martin. <Same team too. A team is going to take a chance on him and if the scenario of no LBs in the first couple of rounds somehow does play itself out then I hope you are right and we do gamble. I see a lot of mocks from Pats fans taking him at 125, I don't see him lasting that long if he gets a decent bill of health.

I definitely agree...Greg Romeus has the capability, and ceiling, to be a 3rd round steal. The one thing with him is what the team doctors say. If they think he will be able to make a full recovery and be as quick and explosive as he used to be, I'd be very happy with picking him with our second 3rd. If not...I wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole.

I think this is a case of the doctors know best.

 

[reflexblue]

You got that Missouri state motto thing going haven't you?

Yeah i never thought about it that way. But seriously i know Smith is fast and athletic but in the games i saw him play he never did much unlike....Watt Darous, Clayborn, Fairly, Miller, Klug etc. So is the attraction his Potential?
He was mentioned early last fall as a potential target for the patriots, but then his name vanished around here as the season went on becuase he didnt' do much, now hes The ONE at OLB

 

[Off The Grid]

After taking time to collect my thoughts, I've come to see that most of my thinking falls along one line of thought...

I'm not at all sold on Aldon Smith.

To me, physically, he's just not there. His numbers fall behind both Kerrigan and Houston, and the one number that really sticks out is his short shuttle time, at a VERY pedestrian 4.5. That one number really jumps out at me, and not in a good way. NFL linebackers simply do not succeed with that time.

There's no question that he has 'it' on tape. He's very smooth, has good moves, and gets to the QB. However, we have limited tape on him, because he's just a Redshirt Sophomore, and last year was impacted by his leg injury. Thus, he (like a lot of other players in this draft, unfortunately) had one very good year, and it wasn't last year, further adding to my concerns with picking him at 17.

I'm also not totally buying into in BB I trust, but if BB picks him, some of my concerns will be allayed. However, I just have this feeling that he's not what we need.

Well, frankly, I agree with you.

I have nothing but love for Aldon Smith, but he has very recently been expunged from my Mock.

I may, indeed, go without expending Top 64 Capital on Flanker, for the reasons cited.

Smith, on the other hand, I do believe has great possibilities ahead of him.

But I'd much rather get to work developing depth behind the boys we now have, particularly drafting Greg Romeus and stealing Matthias Kiwanuka!!

 

[Off The Grid]

1 ~ Indeed, my core position is that if we're going to spend SERIOUS Draft Capital on Flanker, we might as well go Whole Hog and grab Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan...Otherwise, I cannot justify the investment at that level, and would much rather scoop up Greg Romeus in the Mid Rounds, D'Aundre Reed in the Late Rounds, take a Late Round or Free Agent flier or three on Christian Anthony, Craig Marshall, and Marc Schliechl...and steal Matthias Kiwanuka from the Giants!!!

Greg Romeus is a huge enigma to me and I sometimes wonder why the media doesn't talk more about this guy. He absolutely could be the steal of the draft if he comes back healthy and gets back into football shape. He is the perfect story waiting to happen kind of like Curtis Martin. <Same team too. A team is going to take a chance on him and if the scenario of no LBs in the first couple of rounds somehow does play itself out then I hope you are right and we do gamble. I see a lot of mocks from Pats fans taking him at 125, I don't see him lasting that long if he gets a decent bill of health.

"Enigma" is a well chosen word, sir.

For a guy who was a consensus Top 10, last Summer, to be cast into the shadow so emphatically is fascinating. My Blurb:

Greg Romeus ~ 6.50/264

10 months ago, Greg Romeus was a consensus Top 10 Pick. But after a NIGHTMARE Senior season, his stock has gone the way of Ricky Sapp's, a year ago, and plummeted all the way to the Mid Round ~ 3rd to 5th ~ range.

And well it might: after a torn ACL AND Back surgery, Greg Romeus has probably been crossed off some team's boards, all together.

But the lad is healing.

And imagine if he simply fully recovers...and reclaims all the Strength, Speed, and Power he had, a year ago??

We're talking about a 6.5/264 athlete who has the Power, the Burst, and the Extension to Set the Edge AND Rush the Passer, and those types are extremely rare.

MIND you: he played with a pretty dubious Crouch when he was healthy, which hampered both his Anchoring and his Rush Games: If I was drafting for 40 Scheme, I might not draft this kid at all. I'd certainly want to see if he was building up his lower body strength to support that healing back...and to improve his Crouch.

But as a Flanker ~ that's "OutSide LineBacker" to you Earthlings!! ~ in 30 Scheme ~ say, in Coach Belichick's, where Setting the Edge is as important as Rushing The Passer?? That would be a damned good match up.

***

I suspect you're right: #125 may be too optimistic. You'll remember that Ricky Sapp went #134, last year, though. Mind you, that Draft was much deeper, but this Draft has much greater Depth of Talent at both Flanker AND Defensive End, so it may be a wash, and #125 may well be accurate, when all is said and done. But it's a good point you raise.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Yeah i never thought about it that way. But seriously i know Smith is fast and athletic but in the games i saw him play he never did much unlike....Watt Darous, Clayborn, Fairly, Miller, Klug etc. So is the attraction his Potential?
He was mentioned early last fall as a potential target for the patriots, but then his name vanished around here as the season went on becuase he didnt' do much, now hes The ONE at OLB

Well, he did break a fibula and miss a few weeks of the season, but after watching him, there's no doubt in my mind he came out a year too early. I actually liked his fellow redshirt sophomore DE much better - contrarian that I am.

 

[Off The Grid]

Have y'all been hearing the craziness coming out'f the Colorado School of Mines Pro Day??

Nose Tackle Blaine Sumner beat Stephen Paea's record on the Bench Reps with 52...

And here's a new name for potential Flankers: A bit short ~ 6.28 ~ for my tastes, but as fresh legs to just possibly usher Tully Cain down the road, he's interesting, to say the LEAST:

Marc Schiechl ~ Colorado Mines ~ 6.3/255

Information on Marc Schiechl is thin, but we do know this much:

1 ~ The Kirwan Explosion Index suggests that anyone who scores a 70 or more on aggregate Vertical Jump, Bench Reps, and Broad Jump has, at the very least, the raw skills to be a powerfull, powerfull Force attacking the Line of Scrimmage and the QuarterBack. And Schliechl, with 38 Bench Reps, a 35 Vertical, and a 10 Broad Jump, scored an OUTRAGEOUS 83!!

2 ~ Yes, but can he do it on the field?? Well, it's Division II, but he can't help that, now can he? And Jerry Rice was Division II, of course...How does 46 Sacks in 4 years, to set an all time D2 record, sound??

No less an authority than FootBall OutSiders is FULLY on Board the Marc Schiechl Train!! :rocker:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | SackSEER -- Let's Try This Again

Deep Underground Mining Sleeper​

Marc Schiechl hails from the Colorado School of Mines. Schiechl recorded 46.0 sacks for the Ore Diggers, which is good for a .97 SRAM, higher than every edge rusher in the data set save for Terrell Suggs and Robert Mathis. Although he had only average workout numbers from his pro day -— he had a 35-inch vertical and a 4.50 shuttle -- his freakish production is hard to ignore, even though it came at the Division II level. Although Schiechl is a long shot who may not even get drafted, his profile is similar to Division I-AA prospects such as Mathis and Jared Allen, whose stellar production at small schools foreshadowed similar success at the NFL level.

 

[bucky]

Honestly, I cannot imagine he goes for Justin Hoosten.

I'm thoroughly unimpressed with Houston after re-watching him on film. What stands out more than anything is his lack of hustle in pursuit. I don't think he's OLB material.

 

[DaBruinz]

No less an authority than FootBall OutSiders is FULLY on Board the Marc Schiechl Train!! :rocker:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | SackSEER -- Let's Try This Again

And the Pats are having him in for a looksee.

 

[Off The Grid]

Have y'all been hearing the craziness coming out'f the Colorado School of Mines Pro Day??

Nose Tackle Blaine Sumner beat Stephen Paea's record on the Bench Reps with 52...

And here's a new name for potential Flankers: A bit short ~ 6.28 ~ for my tastes, but as fresh legs to just possibly usher Tully Cain down the road, he's interesting, to say the LEAST:

Marc Schliechl ~ Colorado Mines ~ 6.3/255

Information on Marc Schliechl is thin, but we do know this much:

1 ~ The Kirwan Explosion Index suggests that anyone who scores a 70 or more on aggregate Vertical Jump, Bench Reps, and Broad Jump has, at the very least, the raw skills to be a powerfull, powerfull Force attacking the Line of Scrimmage and the QuarterBack. And Schliechl, with 38 Bench Reps, a 35 Vertical, and a 10 Broad Jump, scored an OUTRAGEOUS 83!!

2 ~ Yes, but can he do it on the field?? Well, it's Division II, but he can't help that, now can he? And Jerry Rice was Division II, of course...How does 46 Sacks in 4 years, to set an all time D2 record, sound??

No less an authority than FootBall OutSiders is FULLY on Board the Marc Schiechl Train!! :rocker:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | SackSEER -- Let's Try This Again

And the Pats are having him in for a look/see.

Yes?? NICE.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yes?? NICE.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...draft-contacts-2011-a-page31.html#post2519243

Enjoy.. Just5 don't make a mess on the keyboard... :snob:

 

[cstjohn17]

Marc Schliechl ~ Colorado Mines ~ 6.3/255

Information on Marc Schliechl is thin, but we do know this much:

1 ~ The Kirwan Explosion Index suggests that anyone who scores a 70 or more on aggregate Vertical Jump, Bench Reps, and Broad Jump has, at the very least, the raw skills to be a powerfull, powerfull Force attacking the Line of Scrimmage and the QuarterBack. And Schliechl, with 38 Bench Reps, a 35 Vertical, and a 10 Broad Jump, scored an OUTRAGEOUS 83!!

2 ~ Yes, but can he do it on the field?? Well, it's Division II, but he can't help that, now can he? And Jerry Rice was Division II, of course...How does 46 Sacks in 4 years, to set an all time D2 record, sound??

I will pay his salary if he becomes the nickle pass rusher and the Patriots cut TBC.

 

[crowell33]

I will pay his salary if he becomes the nickle pass rusher and the Patriots cut TBC.

TBC is #1 in sacks on the NE Patriots over the last two seasons combined, ( 15 total sacks ). We're trying to improve the pass rush and you want to remove the teams best pass rusher from the 53 man roster? Interesting strategy.

 

[crowell33]

I know Aldon Smith has been mentioned A LOT going back to last season, he has great measurables. I watched him play three games, i really didnt' see him do much. So what am i missing?

What is different about Smith is his ability to rush from anywhere ( remember our last Super Bowl against the Giants ). For this very reason it is speculated that he would be a perfect fit for both the Rams (Spags) or Giants defense. It is rare that a player can rush equally well from up the middle ( gaps between center and guard or guard and tackle gap ) as he does from the OLB spot.

 

[crowell33]

Well, I'd go with Production, with a side of Combine Stats.

But if I'm spending Top 64 Capital on a Flanker, he'd BETTER be 6.40, or close TO it.

So for my money, that leaves out everybody but Aldon Smith at 6.42 and Ryan Kerrigan, who is 6.37.

Honestly, I cannot imagine he goes for Justin Hoosten.

You mention this Draft Class "testing" his ideal measurables, which seems to imply that he might either be under duress or admire a prospect so strongly that he considers making an exception. Well, he already chucked the "ideal" bit with Jermaine Cunningham, last year, so you certainly have a leg to stand on, there. But I have an hard time imagining, what with Cunningham and Rob Ninkovich in house and very likely to improve greatly, this year, that he'll go THAT far away from the "ideal" with such an expensive pick.

Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED.

Cunningham , size wise doesn't miss by too much, I believe he is 6'3", 263. (His one sack last year is a little more troubling, Deadrick and Gerard Warren each had twice that many). But I believe you are correct. Every year the fan base ( often me included ) scream for the OLB sack artist. If available, BB does what he is best at, drafting Pro Bowl caliber D-Lineman high in the draft, ( Wilfork, Ty Warren, Seymour ).

 

[Off The Grid]

And here's a new name for potential Flankers: A bit short ~ 6.28 ~ for my tastes, but as fresh legs to just possibly usher Tully Cain down the road, he's interesting, to say the LEAST:

Marc Schliechl ~ Colorado Mines ~ 6.3/255

Information on Marc Schliechl is thin, but we do know this much:

1 ~ The Kirwan Explosion Index suggests that anyone who scores a 70 or more on aggregate Vertical Jump, Bench Reps, and Broad Jump has, at the very least, the raw skills to be a powerfull, powerfull Force attacking the Line of Scrimmage and the QuarterBack. And Schliechl, with 38 Bench Reps, a 35 Vertical, and a 10 Broad Jump, scored an OUTRAGEOUS 83!!

2 ~ Yes, but can he do it on the field?? Well, it's Division II, but he can't help that, now can he? And Jerry Rice was Division II, of course...How does 46 Sacks in 4 years, to set an all time D2 record, sound??

I will pay his salary if he becomes the nickel pass rusher and the Patriots cut TBC.

Well SAID, Brother John!! :rocker:

 

[Off The Grid]

Have y'all been hearing the craziness coming out'f the Colorado School of Mines Pro Day??

Nose Tackle Blaine Sumner beat Stephen Paea's record on the Bench Reps with 52...

And here's a new name for potential Flankers: A bit short ~ 6.28 ~ for my tastes, but as fresh legs to just possibly usher Tully Cain down the road, he's interesting, to say the LEAST:

Marc Schliechl ~ Colorado Mines ~ 6.3/255

Information on Marc Schliechl is thin, but we do know this much:

1 ~ The Kirwan Explosion Index suggests that anyone who scores a 70 or more on aggregate Vertical Jump, Bench Reps, and Broad Jump has, at the very least, the raw skills to be a powerfull, powerfull Force attacking the Line of Scrimmage and the QuarterBack. And Schliechl, with 38 Bench Reps, a 35 Vertical, and a 10 Broad Jump, scored an OUTRAGEOUS 83!!

2 ~ Yes, but can he do it on the field?? Well, it's Division II, but he can't help that, now can he? And Jerry Rice was Division II, of course...How does 46 Sacks in 4 years, to set an all time D2 record, sound??

No less an authority than FootBall OutSiders is FULLY on Board the Marc Schiechl Train!! :rocker:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | SackSEER -- Let's Try This Again

Deep Underground Mining Sleeper​

Marc Schiechl hails from the Colorado School of Mines. Schiechl recorded 46.0 sacks for the Ore Diggers, which is good for a .97 SRAM, higher than every edge rusher in the data set save for Terrell Suggs and Robert Mathis. Although he had only average workout numbers from his pro day -— he had a 35-inch vertical and a 4.50 shuttle -- his freakish production is hard to ignore, even though it came at the Division II level. Although Schiechl is a long shot who may not even get drafted, his profile is similar to Division I-AA prospects such as Mathis and Jared Allen, whose stellar production at small schools foreshadowed similar success at the NFL level.

And the Pats are having him in for a looksee.

Yes?? NICE.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...draft-contacts-2011-a-page31.html#post2519243

Enjoy.. Just5 don't make a mess on the keyboard... :snob:

I'm not making any promises.

 

[cstjohn17]

TBC is #1 in sacks on the NE Patriots over the last two seasons combined, ( 15 total sacks ). We're trying to improve the pass rush and you want to remove the teams best pass rusher from the 53 man roster? Interesting strategy.

He sucks, I don't care what numbers you produce. The fact he is the #1 option speaks volumes of how bad their OLBs are.