The Official - Your Thread Will Get Merged Here If you Don't Move on from Moss

[Synovia]

Any more than it is only about the loss of Moss... This was going to be a young offense in transition at the receiver positions whether he remained as a combustible decoy or not. Wes was going to have some issues in returning from his ACL this quickly whether he remained or not. If Gronkowski hadn't had his worst day yet as a rookie and Tate not continued to flash inconsistently and if we had a legit starting RB or the defense hadn't taken the classic trap game step back I have a feeling this offenses production would be just fine. But that's the beauty of the NFL. It's seldom just about talent. It's about execution and discipline and focus and drive and mental as much as physical toughness... And at the end of the day it's not about stats, it's about winning. I get a hoot out of the highly touted league leaders most weeks were ultimately playing in a loss...

Hernandez, Tate, Gronkowski, etc, weren't any older in the first 4 weeks of the season.

It IS Moss.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

We're not allowed to talk about what the offense is becoming without Moss?

You are. And this is the thread to do it in.

 

[Synovia]

You are. And this is the thread to do it in.

So, Moss can't be mentioned in a thread about the running game, where safeties are crowding the box?

 

[spacecrime]

We're not allowed to talk about what the offense is becoming without Moss?

Of course you can. You can talk about it here. Ian has created a thread that will provide you will all your Moss talk in one convenient location. What more can you ask for?

I though this was a patriots football forum, not a "lets all assuage Ian's feelings" forum

Not very gracious to the man who provides the forum, kind of like being invited to dinner and insulting your host because your favorite meal wasn't served.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

kind of like being invited to dinner and insulting your host because your favorite meal wasn't served.

Would you expect anything different from a Moss apologist?

Who ordered this forum?...I wouldn't let my dog read it.

 

[folamzz]

Just saw that; looks like someone forgot to tell ESPN that Moss isn't coming back. ...

We need to get ian hired as an editor at espn boston. He can tell them not to talk about a guy who average one touchdown per game for his career with the patriots and played four games this season before being traded.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

He dissed us. He had his choice of 81 or 84 in Tenn...went with 84.

He's been 84 for a lot longer. I assume the only reason he wasn't 84 here was because it was taken. I don't think it's an insult to us.

 

[Synovia]

Not very gracious to the man who provides the forum, kind of like being invited to dinner and insulting your host because your favorite meal wasn't served.

He doesn't "Provide" anything, and I'm not a guest. I'm a paying user. I pay his bills by looking at the adds his forum serves. Thats how the internet works.

Of course you can. You can talk about it here. Ian has created a thread that will provide you will all your Moss talk in one convenient location. What more can you ask for

To be able to talk about whats relevant in each thread. If you think ignoring the Moss elephant in threads about the running game is a good thing, then I can't agree.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Wes Welker 4 Games w/Moss:
26 rec. 217 yds 3 TD's

Wes Welker 4 Games w/o Moss:
18 rec. 116 yds 0 TD's

I have no doubt that Welker's knee isn't at 100% right now. Nor do I have any doubt that he's still not at 100% mentally. But it's pretty clear that Welker's drop in production is not only about the knee.

Well I guess I am a moss apologist than. Because I would rather not ignore stats like what kontra posted. Welker's knee wasn't 100% in week 1 either, Hernandez's catches have become tougher and tougher each week.

Just a question. How far does everyone think welker is from 100%. If it's not below 70% than how much better do you expect welker's numbers to get facing a double team when he is eventually healthy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't buy that the TE's mysteriously became inconsistent for no reason. The TE's aren't as open as they were in the first 4 games. They are seeing tighter coverages and getting lower-percentage throws in tighter spaces. Whether this is due primarily to the talent on defense in the last 4 games or defensive adjustments due to lack of a deep threat is up for debate.

It's what's called being a rookie and making rookie mistakes and the league catching up to you which means it's time to adjust to increasing attention or maybe you're not as good as your first months press clippings...

 

[Brady2Welker]

Not only is there a Moss effect but teams are changing the way they play us. It's natural for them to adjust to our new style of play. That said, if our offense is going to be good they need to outperform the other teams defensive adjustments.

 

[emoney_33]

It's what's called being a rookie and making rookie mistakes and the league catching up to you which means it's time to adjust to increasing attention or maybe you're not as good as your first months press clippings...

And it just happens to correlate perfectly with Moss getting traded, right.

 

[eagle eye]

Thought this was an interesting statistic...

With Moss on Third Down:
1. Third Down Conversion Pct - 55.3 (1st)
2. Tom Brady Comp. Pct. - 70.6
3. Tom Brady Yards Per Att. - 8.68
4. Tom Brady Conversion Pct. - 52.9
5. Tom Brady TD/INT - 5/1
6. Passer Rating - 124.4

Without Moss on Third Down:
1. Third Down Conversion Pct - 33.3 (t-25th)
2. Tom Brady Comp. Pct. - 40.5
3. Tom Brady Yards Per Att. - 5.49
4. Tom Brady Conversion Pct. - 27.0
5. Tom Brady TD/INT - 1/1
6. Passer Rating - 56.5

Those stats make me feel ill.

 

[eagle eye]

I gotta say I think its just plain ridiculous to tell people they can't discuss a former player who was part of the unbeaten regular season and is a certain hall of famer.

This stinks of homerism. If all you want on here is koolaid chuggers please put a sign up on the way in so we get that. This is the sort of thing that will turn people off the site. Its been the best Patriots messageboard for quite a while now but this thing and the SMY thing are not good.

 

[Ring 6]

It's what's called being a rookie and making rookie mistakes and the league catching up to you which means it's time to adjust to increasing attention or maybe you're not as good as your first months press clippings...

If not for egregious drops, Hernandez would have more catches since Moss left than while he was here.
Welkers drop in catches has been replaced by more catches from Woodhead (+7 to -8) and Branch has almost twice as many catches as Moss did.
Its ridiculous to look at 2 4 game windows and think the distribution of catches means anything. Catch distribution has always varied a lot from month to month, week to week and drive to drive under Brady.

I mean, really, we are trying to find meaning in Hernandez having 2 fewer catches the last 4 games than he did in the first 4? I remember 2 horrible drops in one drive. Were they because Moss isnt here?

Last year Moss caught 26 passes in the first 3 games and 12 in the next 3.
In 2007 Welker had a 4 game stretch of 34 catches followed by a 4 game stretch of 20, a much bigger dropoff than this one, when Moss was there.

Its ridiculous to try to take receiving stats in a 4 game window against very differet defenses under very different circumatances and pretend to be able to even find meaning in them much less try to claim you know the cause. Stats vary, in 4 game windows they vary widely even when nothing materially changes.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

 

[apple strudel]

Not moving on from Moss. Harumph.

 

[eagle eye]

If not for egregious drops, Hernandez would have more catches since Moss left than while he was here.
Welkers drop in catches has been replaced by more catches from Woodhead (+7 to -8) and Branch has almost twice as many catches as Moss did.
Its ridiculous to look at 2 4 game windows and think the distribution of catches means anything. Catch distribution has always varied a lot from month to month, week to week and drive to drive under Brady.

I mean, really, we are trying to find meaning in Hernandez having 2 fewer catches the last 4 games than he did in the first 4? I remember 2 horrible drops in one drive. Were they because Moss isnt here?

Last year Moss caught 26 passes in the first 3 games and 12 in the next 3.
In 2007 Welker had a 4 game stretch of 34 catches followed by a 4 game stretch of 20, a much bigger dropoff than this one, when Moss was there.

Its ridiculous to try to take receiving stats in a 4 game window against very differet defenses under very different circumatances and pretend to be able to even find meaning in them much less try to claim you know the cause. Stats vary, in 4 game windows they vary widely even when nothing materially changes.

But in this case its not just the stats. You can see with your own eyes that every team is stacking the box and Welker is facing the no.1 corner every week.

 

[Ring 6]

But in this case its not just the stats. You can see with your own eyes that every team is stacking the box and Welker is facing the no.1 corner every week.

I dont agree.
To say that you can watch a game on TV and determine what the coverages are consistently is lying.
Teams play a significantly higher amount of zone against us than man, so how can Welker be facing the no 1 corner as a rule?

Look, if we dont fumble the KO and if Gronk doesnt fumble inside the 5, we may well have taken a 21-20 lead in the 4th quarter.
The problem with the offense last week was turnovers. Without them we may be sitting here at 7-1. Instead people need to convince themselves the walls are caving in.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

and Welker is facing the no.1 corner every week.

And they still need to double him. :rocker: