PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Lombardi's take on the Moss trade

Status
Not open for further replies.
When was the last time anybody saw Moss get laid out? That should explain a lot.
 
When was the last time anybody saw Moss get laid out? That should explain a lot.


Yup .... Randy was not into getting laid on a football field.
 
Interesting reading. I wish Lombardi was still with NFP. He wrote the best articles there.

Also good comments in this thread.

Moss might be smart, technique-wise, and as far as having a big bag of tricks, but emotionally, he is inconsistent, and sometimes not there. I think that is what was meant.
 
I still think Moss can be a force on short-intermediate routes, especially because the defenders know he could be burning them deep at any given time. I remember when Welker was out the first few games last year Moss was used for more than just airing it deep, and he had numbers similar to what Marshall and Fitz have with 8-10 catches and 100-130 yards. I honestly think it was more of a matter of Welker being a better slot and over the middle guy that they preferred to have Randy take 2 guys deep to give more room in the middle of the field to gain yards. But when he was out (not including the Jets debacle) Moss did pretty good on multiple routes all over the field.

NFL Videos: WK 1: Randy Moss highlights

I fully expect Moss to put up more receptions per game the rest of the year with Minnesota than he had even last year in New England. He hasn't lost the ability to run routes.
 
Last edited:
Lombardi makes a great point about Farve and Moss free lancing out there when plays break down. Farve has always been like that.


Thanks Mo.
 
That was exactly my point. Maybe I did not explain it well, but it is never as black and white as Lombardi paints it. Sometimes you can never be sustainable if you are not situational, and vice versa. But you can never be one at the risk of the other or you will invariably fail.
Its also known as transactional vs global thinking. The problem is that many managers and companies are focussed on transactional/situational and do fail.
 
I wouldn't say that Moss has always limited the offenses options. In 2007 he caught balls all over the field. I recall him being a beast on some short routes in 2008. The change definitely occurred between the start of 2009 and now. Moss has become more and more of a long ball only guy, and that's forced the team to rely more on low-percentage football.
 
The artical explains a lot, it makes sense. RMs skills would have been suited for the Raiders philosophy. He can't or won't run all the routs that the patriots like to use. His skills have Diminished just enough that he can't just run down the field and create separation. Hes not as fast as he use to be and can't jump as high as he use to. This combined with his fragile ego (pouting or acting up when he didn't get the ball enough in his mind) are the reasons he was traded
 
I thought Moss was "The Smartest Receiver/Player he's ever coached", now he couldn't run all the routes?
I smell something bad.
It doesn't matter how smart you are if you can't physically run the routes. Moss does not have the lateral quickness that all our other receivers do. His legs are too long and he doesn't compensate for that by getting lower to the ground (like Hernandez).

If you have Moss run the same routes Welker does, you are basically taking him out of the game because most NFL corners will be able to stay with him too easily. That's why you just have him do what he does best and run vertical, long-strider routes.
 
Moss has been running short routes, including slants, so I don't think Lombardi did his homework on this one.

Correct... though maybe he's relaying a feeling that he's not running those slants and routes particularly well, and his numbers have dropped as a result.

But even if Moss has become more one-dimensional that's not really why he was traded either... it just made it another factor to consider opposing a long-term deal and in support of a trade.

I think it's clear the Patriots prefer multi-dimensional WRs and Moss has been fitting that profile less and less. Still, not having a deep threat at all, even if that deep threat is a one-dimensional player, puts other pressure on the offense and lets the DBs move up on the short route receivers and pressure the QB... pretty much as we saw in the Reche Caldwell era, which prompted Belichick to bring in Moss and Stallworth.

Stallworth was not multi-dimensional and was let go after what essentially was a 1-year deal anyway. Moss has been let go because he wasn't worth a long-term extension while on his way to becoming one-dimensional AND he was also becoming a locker room distraction.
 
Last edited:
When was the last time anybody saw Moss get laid out? That should explain a lot.
I don't remember him Ever being laid out.
 
Last edited:
At no point in that excerpt did BB elude to route running or lackthereof as reason for the trade. What the are you guys talking about?
 
At no point in that excerpt did BB elude to route running or lackthereof as reason for the trade. What the are you guys talking about?

Read the article linked by the OP.
 
He's run some, of necessity after '07 but with less success of late. He's never been real willing to go across the middle and when he gets hit he likes it even less. He's a long strider, not a quick twitch guy. He doesn't make coverge miss on double moves, he either beats them or he tries to snooker them. But increasingly he's fooling less of them and his own QB more. I remember when he first got here and he and Brady took a couple of games to get their timing in sink even when he was open. He was coming off the field after a jump ball TD in the EZ and Bill was wacking him off the helmut saying that's what I mean, go get the ball at it's highest point. His jumping ability has diminished substantially over the last couple of seasons. He still has straight line speed. Although he struggles to get off the jam. The hands are still there but inconsistent I think due to lack of consistent focus. He was never a great route runner, but he was so gifted no one ever demanded that of him, either. I know he tried to do more here than he ever had. They asked him to do that in part to keep him involved. But he didn't always enjoy it and he wasn't always very effective (including as a blocker).

I distinctly recall the look Bill gave him coming off the field in that Panthers game last fall after having one ball picked and letting the next go through his hands. In fact I saw a still of that in my internet travels this week. It was classic wtf is up with him glare... I know everyone publicly defended him against his critics then, too... There was never really any other option because of his sensitive psyche. He didn't take individual performance criticism constructively.

He was traded because he was yielding diminishing returns. Bill's drafting this year reflected his intention to move on. He had to wait and see if the additions would pan out and Welker would make it back and if the reconfigured OL could withstand the potential loss of Mankins and then Kaczur. Had that not all come together or had he been willing to accept the fact that he wasn't in the future plans and just play out the last season of his deal, he'd still be here as a decoy seeing more limited duty. But he made it pretty obvious from week 1 on (and probably earlier) that he wasn't going to just go along quietly for the greater good. His goals and the teams were at cross purposes. That - as well as some of the oddball behavior - made the trade a no brainer, because the alternative was likely going to be rougher...along the lines of what Bruschi predicted.

Why didn't you just say you think he's done...
 
In fact most at least secretly revel to some extent in the failure of those who come after them...Oddly Bill spent a long time working for one of those guys...

Wow, if you mean Bill Parcells, I think it's a fact that when Parcells leaves a team they are A LOT better than when he started with them.
 
Still, not having a deep threat at all, even if that deep threat is a one-dimensional player, puts other pressure on the offense and lets the DBs move up on the short route receivers and pressure the QB... pretty much as we saw in the Reche Caldwell era, which prompted Belichick to bring in Moss and Stallworth.

This is my fear too.

Moss opened up not only the shorter routes for Welker & others, but also the running lanes because he distracted a Safety long enough for the RB to find a hole.

The offense is going to find the playing field a lot more crowded in the upcoming weeks.
 
Wow, if you mean Bill Parcells, I think it's a fact that when Parcells leaves a team they are A LOT better than when he started with them.

No, in fact he doesn't. Usually they are in cap hell as the JETS were and often they have problem players left behind like Dallas did. Miami is already in trouble and he hasn't even entirely left yet, though he's got one foot out the door... Nothing the great rebuilder of franchises has ever rebuilt has been sustainable once he left... Including your NEP who had to be completely overhauled when his protoge returned here three years later.
 
Just an FYI bump for those interested in hearing the BB interview with Mike Lombardi in it's entirety. NFLN Gameday says it will air just before 10AM.

I don't usually watch Gameday and I don't usually pay that much attention to anything Mooch says but he just did a film segment where he broke down why Gonzo can't be stopped in SD, a team missing it's #1WR and stretch the field guy. Has to do with his skill set and the fact that he can play like a WR and cause matchup fits running any route on the tree. Interesting...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 6 – A Week Before the Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/13
Patriots News 04-12, What To Watch For In The NFL Draft
MORSE: Pre-Draft Patriots News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
Mark Morse
1 week ago
Patriots Part Ways with Another Linebacker as Offseason Roster Shake-Up Continues
Patriots News 04-05, Mock Draft 2.0, Patriots Look For OL Depth
MORSE: 18 Game Schedule and Other Patriots Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel Press Conference at the League Meetings 3/31
MORSE: Smokescreens and Misinformation Leading Up to Patriots Draft
Back
Top