So which OLB would you pick at #22

[VrabelMayeWin]

None isn't an option, I want to know who you guys want if we take one. Assume they're all available.

Looking at some links, I see that Kindle measured below 6'3". Hughes has the best quickness numbers and had good bulk but measured below 6'2".

Here's a comparison of pro days that I copied from an NFL Draft Countdown post :

"Shawne Merriman 6-4, 272, 4.64, X, X, 4.21 20-shuttle, 25 bench, 40 vertical
LaMarr Woodley 6-1 1/2, 266, 4.74, 2.72, 1.65, 4.42 20-shuttle, 29 bench, 38 vertical,
Vernon Gholston 6-3, 266, 4.65, 2.65, 1.53, 4.40 20-shuttle, 7.12 3-cone, 37 bench, 42 vertical
Larry English 6-2, 255, 4.74, 2.71, 1.59, 4.38 20-shuttle, 7.26 3-cone, 24 bench, 36 vertical
Brian Orakpo 6-3, 263, 4.63, 2.6, 1.56, 4.45 20-shuttle, 7.26 3-cone, 31 bench, 39 vertical
Clay Matthews 6-3, 240, 4.58, 2.68, 1.58, 4.18 shuttle, 6.90 3-cone, 23 bench, 35 vertical
Brad Jones (PD) 6-2 3/4, 232, 4.54, 2.56, 1.59, 4.21 shuttle, 6.75 3-cone, 19 bench, 33 vertical

Jerry Hughes 6-2, 255, 4.65, 2.63, 1.63, 4.15 shuttle, 6.99 3-cone, 26 bench, 34 vertical
Brandon Graham 6-1 1/2, 268, 4.71, 2.69, 1.61, X, X, 31 bench
Sergio Kindle 6-2 3/4, 250, 4.65, 2.69, 1.65, 4.53 shuttle, 7.26 3-cone, 25 bench, 36 vertical
Ricky Sapp 6-3 3/4, 252, 4.65, 2.62, 1.60, 4.41 shuttle, 7.29 3-cone, 23 bench, 34 vertical
Koa Misi 6-2 1/2, 251, 4.75, 2.76, 1.64, 4.27 shuttle, 7.07 3-cone, X bench, 38 vertical"

I like all of these guys, I think I would take Hughes, though, height aside his agility numbers are almost as good as Clay Mathews' and he has a lot more bulk on him (so the numbers say, anyway).

I would love to get one of these at #22, then get AJ Edds in the 4th round for some coverage ability at LB then still have the three #2s.

 

[captain stone]

I chose Brandon Graham, after much deliberation, and before I even read your post containing those measurements.

After comparing all the #s, I can understand why Hughes is getting a lot of love. He has everything that Bill prob. seeks at OLB, exc. for height & arm length (33").

The fact is, that nobody here is a perfect Pats OLB; all of them have at least one flaw, for which unless it is somehow compensated, could prove tragic.

BTW, check out Gholston's #s; they're insane. Why isn't this guy a dominator (yet)?

 

[patsfan55]

None isn't an option, I want to know who you guys want if we take one. Assume they're all available.

Looking at some links, I see that Kindle measured below 6'3". Hughes has the best quickness numbers and had good bulk but measured below 6'2".

Here's a comparison of pro days that I copied from an NFL Draft Countdown post :

"Shawne Merriman 6-4, 272, 4.64, X, X, 4.21 20-shuttle, 25 bench, 40 vertical
LaMarr Woodley 6-1 1/2, 266, 4.74, 2.72, 1.65, 4.42 20-shuttle, 29 bench, 38 vertical,
Vernon Gholston 6-3, 266, 4.65, 2.65, 1.53, 4.40 20-shuttle, 7.12 3-cone, 37 bench, 42 vertical
Larry English 6-2, 255, 4.74, 2.71, 1.59, 4.38 20-shuttle, 7.26 3-cone, 24 bench, 36 vertical
Brian Orakpo 6-3, 263, 4.63, 2.6, 1.56, 4.45 20-shuttle, 7.26 3-cone, 31 bench, 39 vertical
Clay Matthews 6-3, 240, 4.58, 2.68, 1.58, 4.18 shuttle, 6.90 3-cone, 23 bench, 35 vertical
Brad Jones (PD) 6-2 3/4, 232, 4.54, 2.56, 1.59, 4.21 shuttle, 6.75 3-cone, 19 bench, 33 vertical

Jerry Hughes 6-2, 255, 4.65, 2.63, 1.63, 4.15 shuttle, 6.99 3-cone, 26 bench, 34 vertical
Brandon Graham 6-1 1/2, 268, 4.71, 2.69, 1.61, X, X, 31 bench
Sergio Kindle 6-2 3/4, 250, 4.65, 2.69, 1.65, 4.53 shuttle, 7.26 3-cone, 25 bench, 36 vertical
Ricky Sapp 6-3 3/4, 252, 4.65, 2.62, 1.60, 4.41 shuttle, 7.29 3-cone, 23 bench, 34 vertical
Koa Misi 6-2 1/2, 251, 4.75, 2.76, 1.64, 4.27 shuttle, 7.07 3-cone, X bench, 38 vertical"

I like all of these guys, I think I would take Hughes, though, height aside his agility numbers are almost as good as Clay Mathews' and he has a lot more bulk on him (so the numbers say, anyway).

I would love to get one of these at #22, then get AJ Edds in the 4th round for some coverage ability at LB then still have the three #2s.

I'd like to see Carlos Dunlap's pro day numbers to compare

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I'd like to see Carlos Dunlap's pro day numbers to compare

40 Yrd Dash: 4.68
20 Yrd Dash: 2.69
10 Yrd Dash: 1.61
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 31 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'03"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.61
3-Cone Drill: 7.21

(these are combine not pro day numbers)

 

[SeauOUCH]

I love both Graham & Hughes. Graham is much much better against the run but Hughes is a bit better pass rusher.

I think Graham would also be a beast as a 4-3 DE if BB wants to go back to that experiment.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

What, no mention of Everson Griffen? I suppose I can understand that some view him as a Gholston redux, but I think he's going to be great.

As for numbers: Everson Griffen 6-3 5/8, 270, 4.59, 4.3 20-yard shuttle, 7.12 3-cone, 32 bench, 34 vertical (some scouts had him as low as 4.46, according to Scout.com: USC Pro Day Recap ). Exceptional numbers, especially for a man that big.

Earlier this evening I posted a few thoughts on Griffen on another Patriots board. I'll duplicate them here:

People are far too quick to judge. Remember, Griffen is a junior in college, not a fully matured adult; if he's struggled with his attitude in the past, or not always taken football seriously, why do we condemn him for it if he's shown evidence of growing up? In all his interviews this year, he's mentioned that getting benched last year was a big wake up call. Further, he goes on to talk about how his new position coach has helped him grow up off the field, as well as improve his play on the gridiron. Evaluate him on who he is, not on the aggregate of his past.

Oh, and does the fact that he was benched for a rookie pro bowler count as a mitigating factor?

The fact of the matter is that he was solidly productive this year, despite playing on both sides of the line and switching between standing up and playing with his hand in the dirt. Sometimes he dropped into coverage. Other times he was supposed to maintain contain instead of just all out rushing. His hustle improved immensely. He's always chasing plays down, even if they go to the opposite side of the field. He's pretty decent in coverage, and will only get better with good coaching and improvements in his technique. He also dedicated himself to the weight and film rooms in this past year, and worked hard to actually understand the defensive concepts, not simply run around on the field.


Check out a transcript of an interview from the combine:

02/28/2010 - USC DE Everson Griffen NFL Combine Media Transcript: 6-foot-3, 273 pounds..."I had a couple of meetings last night and coaches asked me if I'm willing to play 3-4 and I said, 'of course, what ever you need me at, I'll play.'" I played it on certain calls, like third-down calls. I dropped, the buzz drop, like hot two drops. So I did a variety of things at USC. What is a buzz drop? Buzz drop is when I drop underneath the number one receiver, underneath the numbers, take away the quick routes, the hook route, the curl, the hitch. Just give me the chance . . . yeah I feel like I can play the outside linebacker."

Add in his impressive physical skills (6'3.5" #270 4.59), his agility and experience in space, his excellent strength against the run, and his ability to create on his own as a passrusher (he's not just a blitzer), and he's the total package. In fact, I believe he ought to be our primary target in the first round. He's exactly what this team needs on the left side. Besides, USC defensive players have an astounding track record in the last few years.

Speaking of which, did we forget that Willie Mac played at the same school and position? I see Everson Griffen as his modern day replacement, which we've lacked on this roster for half a decade. Let's bring him in and give him the ol' 55 so he can join the lineage of great USC linebackers (Willie, Seau) who have played in NE.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

What, no mention of Everson Griffen?

I tried to limit it to what I see as the weak side guys or the more pure pass rush types as opposed to guys like Griffen, Dunlap, etc, who are more like strong side guys.

I'm with you, though, in that I'd love to get Griffen (1), Sapp (2), Edds (4) which would just end this LB travesty once and for all and we could still get a WR and something else in the second round.

 

[JMarr]

I chose Brandon Graham, after much deliberation, and before I even read your post containing those measurements.

After comparing all the #s, I can understand why Hughes is getting a lot of love. He has everything that Bill prob. seeks at OLB, exc. for height & arm length (33").

The fact is, that nobody here is a perfect Pats OLB; all of them have at least one flaw, for which unless it is somehow compensated, could prove tragic.

BTW, check out Gholston's #s; they're insane. Why isn't this guy a dominator (yet)?

I don't know....maybe because combine numbers really don't mean squat?

 

[patchick]

I don't know....maybe because combine numbers really don't mean squat?

Except that the combine numbers for that nobody from Troy, Demarcus Ware, turned out to mean everything. Drafting is tricky that way.

 

[patsfan55]

I tried to limit it to what I see as the weak side guys or the more pure pass rush types as opposed to guys like Griffen, Dunlap, etc, who are more like strong side guys.

I'm with you, though, in that I'd love to get Griffen (1), Sapp (2), Edds (4) which would just end this LB travesty once and for all and we could still get a WR and something else in the second round.

I'm pretty surprised by Dunlap's bench press numbers, would have thought it would be a lot higher. I'm not sure if I think Graham could be a strong side guy or not. Dunlap and Griffen are definitely very well suited for it in our defense though.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I chose Sapp. Ideally, I'd prefer to get him in the 2nd round, but given the choices he was my pick. He's my favorite weakside pass rusher for the Pats.

I really like Hardy for the strongside. Everson Griffen is another guy that is starting to grow on me. Really love Morgan on the strongside, but that will most likely require a trade up, which I don't see nor do I want to see happening.

 

[eagle eye]

I can't vote because I don't want us to take an OLB at 22.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Brian Orakpo was Sergio Kindle's teammate who got drafted last year and had double digit sacks. Scouts think Kindle has a chance of being better than Orakpo. Problem: he may go in the teens to teams like Miami.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Kindle, is the best all around LB in the draft. but Hughes, will have the most sacks out of all the rookie OLB's


for my money i want a every down starting LB in the first round and that's Kindle, but if the pats want any one of dose 4 guys they will have to get one at #22 none of them will be on the bord when they pick at #44.



there are 10 teams that will be runing a 3-4 defense. this year that pick in between. #22 and #44 and most of them need OLB's

 

[jeffbiologist]

I would favor the use of #22 for a DE and #44 or a slight trade up for Sapp. Sure there are alot of other 3-4 defenses between 22 and 44 but teams have other needs as well. It will be a crapshoot to get one of those at 44 for sure.

 

[JMarr]

Except that the combine numbers for that nobody from Troy, Demarcus Ware, turned out to mean everything. Drafting is tricky that way.

His combine numbers were NOT everything, although certainly they helped to vault him into the first round. Everything we've been hearing lately from scouts and GMs is that the combine is a VERY small part of the equation, mainly serving to give teams one last chance see guys they're interested in and have already scouted and make sure they don't suffer from some kind of fatal physical or mental flaw.

For every DeMarcus Ware, there are scores of physical freaks/combine warriors who have busted in the NFL.

 

[Nonentity]

For me it's Graham then Hughes.

Graham for the first step, the motor and the production. You can't argue with production.

And in a very close second place, Hughes. I'm sold on the short shuttle time - it's better than Jerod Mayo's. That's how good it is. And he produced in college, so it's not just a Mike Mandula redux. Love the motor too.

 

[chevss454]

I can't vote because I don't want us to take an OLB at 22.

I'm in this camp unless it's Derrick Morgan DE/OLB which would require a trade up ahead of Miami who also is looking hard at him. I can't take credit for this thought as I stole it from BOR, however I am in complete agreement.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

i like kindle but i don't think he'll be available at 22.

 

[dryheat44]

For me it's Graham then Hughes.

.

Me too. I've been a huge Hughes advocate throughout the process, but when I did up my value board, Graham ended up on top.

Here's the quandry: Graham will likely be the better 3 down player. However, this team needs a pass rush like Dr. Doofelshmitz needs Perry the Platypus. And Hughes figures to be the better pass rusher.

I'm still tweaking with my value chart, as the last mock exercise pointed out some potential flaws, but for now at #22, I've got to go with Graham.