The official "We just can't win without Givens" thread

[maverick4]

The offense has had it's struggles. Most of those are related to protection and blocking insufficiencies and the unfortunate inability to populate the #3 WR slot with another reliable deep threat to help spread defenders and create additional space and opportunities for Moss and Welker. None of those are the perview of a named or un named OC, but rather just another thing he is left to deal with..

Completely ABSURD. What is with all the excuse-making for the horrible play-calling and offensive coordinator. It's hilarious that with all the talent we already have on offense, at every single position group, the blame by the stat whores for offensive failures and 2nd half shutouts, is the need for a quality 4th receiver.

 

[maverick4]

Championship caliber teams win on the road. This is what Tom Brady and his "high powered" offensive toys have done in the 2nd half on the road this year.

0 pts against the Jets
0 pts against the Broncos
10 pts against rhe Colts
7 pts against the Saints
Even against the lowly Bucs in that faux road game in London this "high powered" O scored a whopping 14 pts in the 2nd half.

They not only are not scoring in the 2nd half of games to put those games away but they're not managing the clock to help out the D and theyre turning the ball over.
Only the kool-aid drinkers among us won't admit there are glaring problems with this offense, the strength of this team, which has literally cost them victories this year.
.

Excellent post.

It is amazing and disturbing how many stat whores here keep insisting that O'Brien is a good coordinator just because the offense puts up points when it doesn't matter.

 

[RussFrancis]

This thread is funny. Do we even have a David Givens-type receiver? He was like a small TE, the prototypical possession receiver. He wasnt a slot receiver. He wasnt a downfield threat. He was a physically dominant mismatch that could own most any corner with physicality when we really needed a catch or redzone TD. We're missing a guy like that in this O. Because we've got the other 2 covered. But hell, we dont really even throw to the TEs anymore, and I have a hard time understanding that with two TEs like Watson and Baker that I perceive as at least halfway decent players. Its just Welker or Moss or nothing at all, and good teams understand that, execute the defense when needed, and more often that any of us care for, it becomes nothing at all. Call it whatever you want. But missing a reliable and trusted 3rd receiving option is absolutely killing this team right now.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

This thread is funny. Do we even have a David Givens-type receiver? He was like a small TE, the prototypical possession receiver. He wasnt a slot receiver. He wasnt a downfield threat. He was a physically dominant mismatch that could own most any corner with physicality when we really needed a catch or redzone TD. We're missing a guy like that in this O. Because we've got the other 2 covered. But hell, we dont really even throw to the TEs anymore, and I have a hard time understanding that with two TEs like Watson and Baker that I perceive as at least halfway decent players. Its just Welker or Moss or nothing at all, and good teams understand that, execute the defense when needed, and more often that any of us care for, it becomes nothing at all. Call it whatever you want. But missing a reliable and trusted 3rd receiving option is absolutely killing this team right now.

I believe it was intended to be. If we had Givens today he'd probably be tied up blocking like the TE's here have been since Hector was a pup...

It all starts and ends in the trenches in football, always has and always will.

If Bill made one mistake this season it was letting Gaffney go. Unfortunately with guys like Josh and Scott out there trolling for system veterans it was almost inevitable they would be willing to overpay for a few. I think Bill realizes he has some work to do in the trenches, but he's had to prioritize needs and likely has his reasons for approaching the roster differently than some of us geniuses would. He clearly believes if they execute consistently they can make do. Problem is they haven't been all that consistent through the first 12 weeks of this season. Monday was something of a total meltdown. Maybe in the long run that will pay dividends as egos get rechecked at the door. They lost a heartbreaker by inches in Indy and some feelings were likely hurt in the process. Against NY those same egos likely got a little too much of a boost, and that led to uncharacteristic coverage and assignment and execution breakdowns in NO after getting off to a promising start facing a team on a mission to prove something. That's part of the any given Sunday factor that befuddles fans regularly.

We may not win it all this season for a number of reasons. For those to whom that concept is unacceptable this is a bitter pill to swallow EVERY season. They should really spend more time searching for a team that will as opposed to attempting to dissect something they don't remotely comprehend, since winning now seems to be all that ever matters to them.

 

[Tunescribe]

We may not win it all this season for a number of reasons. For those to whom that concept is unacceptable this is a bitter pill to swallow EVERY season. They should really spend more time searching for a team that will as opposed to attempting to dissect something they don't remotely comprehend, since winning now seems to be all that ever matters to them.

Truer words have never been written.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Crap, I wanted to start an official "We just can't win without Rabih Abdullah" thread.

Can we really feel good about a team missing Arthur Love?

 

[pats1]

Can we really feel good about a team missing Arthur Love?

Yes, but we can't with one missing Arther Love!

 

[Two Eight]

I just want further evidence that the key to all the Lombardis is David Givens.

Recognizing the sarcasm in the OP I think there's some truth there. Givens was one of my favorite players from the SB teams, he was a tough lunch-pail type player.



I think one word that described those SB teams well and not so much the current team, for the past few years, is toughness. Givens was a good example of that, he loved blocking on running plays for the chance to go punish some DB's. But more so on defense than offense, that 01 team went into games with the attitude that they may not win but they were going to make you hurt, and of course they did win in large part because of their toughness.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I hope Given's isn't still using steroids...

Seriously, he was a decent receiver with us, but are we really saying we want to take a step back in talent? Really?

 

[pats1]

I hope Given's isn't still using steroids...

...David Givens has been retired for three years. He had a devastating knee injury in 2006 that affected his quality of life, nevermind football career.

 

[pats1]

Wouldn't Aiken fit this mold, albeit less athletic?

 

[pats1]

I thought this article I just dug up is ironically appropriate. It's from January 2006, just after the Patriots had defeated the Jaguars 28-3 in the divisional playoffs. In the game, Givens caught a touchdown for the sixth straight postseason game (he caught his 7th, one shy of the NFL record, in his final game with the Pats the next week against the Broncos). Brady praised Givens after the game:

Givens's streak at 6 He's on his own playoff run - The Boston Globe

Givens's streak at 6
He's on his own playoff run

By Jim McCabe, Globe Staff | January 8, 2006

...

Explaining that his team is not built around Randy Moss-like receivers, Brady tipped his helmet to the guys he throws to. ''We have guys who get open, like David," said Brady (15 of 27, 201 yards, 3 touchdowns). ''David is showing he gets open. He's tall, smart, so his number is called. He's making the play when his number is called."

...

It's so strange how quickly things change, isn't it?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Wouldn't Aiken fit this mold, albeit less athletic?

Aiken looks real good running in the open field ... does that count?

 

[pats1]

Aiken looks real good running in the open field ... does that count?

I suppose.