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Chung fined for "helmet to helmet"

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Someone earlier in this thread explained proper tackling technique. Move your head off to the side and wrap them up. I've never heard anyone claim that proper tackling involves hitting someone with your face.

Several people in this thread have said it does.
 
Proper tackling technique is taught as put your helmet to the side, the side that the ball is on in hoping that your helmet will pop the ball out. It's not taught as putting your helmet straight into the guys gut, chest or chin. Plain and simple that was a penalty.


Sorry here Willie, but your idea of the proper tackling technique is wrong. Of course this all really depends on the angle that you are pursuing the ball carrier. If you are approaching someone straight on as Chung did, then you drive your facemask through their numbers. Their numbers aren't on the ball, they are on their chest. In pop warner they teach you differently, but that's for safety reasons only. If a guy can no longer put his facemask into the chest of a QB then why do we even bother to rush anymore? Just drop everyone back, wait for a receiver to get in range, and lay the wood.

I will not argue the penalty, but I will argue the fine. Total BS. This league is getting out of control.
 
Obviously they can, since hundreds of tackles happen every Sunday without players leading with their facemasks.

The only type of tackle you can make without leading with your facemask will either involve arm tackles (which are extremely dangerous) or putting your head down as you are ready to engage, which is the dumbest thing a player could ever do. Your head extends out farther than your shoulders do, and you are leaning will a low center of gravity. Your facemask, whether hitting to the side, or the front, should always be the first to connect. If not, then you either made a great open field shoe string tackle, or you didnt connect on the tackle as you should have.
 
So if someone did what Chung did to Brady, you'd be ok with it?

It was an obvious penalty.

No. It wasn't an "obvious" penalty. In fact, if you watched the game, the penalty was called on BURGESS for HIS hit on Henne. Not on Chung.
 
Not going to quote anyone because its the general topic of the thread.

A proper form tackle does not mean driving your facemask through a player's numbers. Facemask goes on whichever side the ball is being carried on in order to gain control of the runner — coaches who teach players to put their head "on the ball" usually end up teaching their players to duck their head on contact, an even bigger no-no. Primary force should come from the backside shoulder pad. The helmet should slide off to the side during the course of the hit, not piledrive the runner into the ground.

Chung's primary force came from the contact he made with his facemask. The facemask is there to protect players from such hits, which frequently occur when the tackler misjudges the tackle, but that is not a classic form tackle.
 
If a Patriots player pulled out a gun and shot the opposing QB, some of you hypocrites would still be arguing that it was no big deal. Being a fan doesn't mean losing objectivity. It's always the same people making excuses.
 
If a Patriots player pulled out a gun and shot the opposing QB, some of you hypocrites would still be arguing that it was no big deal. Being a fan doesn't mean losing objectivity. It's always the same people making excuses.

Ahh, run, run, the strawman cometh!!!!
 
If a Patriots player pulled out a gun and shot the opposing QB, some of you hypocrites would still be arguing that it was no big deal. Being a fan doesn't mean losing objectivity. It's always the same people making excuses.

But what if it was just a warning shot that only winged the guy?
 
Changing the rules to work better for you, as pathetic as it is, is still an above-board process. It's different from them huddling up in a league office somewhere and saying, "The Pats are too good, let's fine one of their players for a legal hit."

Spygate, IMO, was totally legit. The penalty was harsh but it's in line with the new commish being tougher than the old commish. Lesson learned, I can guarantee you the Pats won't illegally tape anyone again.

Spygate was so bogus that they didn't even go AFTER the Jets for doing the same exact thing. it was a loaded joke from the beginning. Can't believe you don't realize that.

And the rest of your argument is just a strawman. The league guys were seen outside the locker room last year telling the Jets, "I told you so!!" and congratulating Mangini after the win!. This is documented. So is the ex-Yankee first-baseman's hatred of the Sox (he doles out fines like candy to the Sox), so is the NBA referee's shenanigans, so is Bud Selig's craziness.

Above-board process? LOL, I guarantee you that Belichick doesn't think so. It's clear the Patriots players didn't, since Bruschi went on a screed against that so-called above-board process.
 
Someone earlier in this thread explained proper tackling technique. Move your head off to the side and wrap them up. I've never heard anyone claim that proper tackling involves hitting someone with your face.

Move your head off to the side is still leading with your facemask. You have to look at the guy you're tackling. Dropping your head and going to the side is NOT proper technique. And, no, I'm not advising that tackling with your facemask to someone's chest is proper, but it's certainly more proper than leading with the crown. At the very least, facemask to the chest isn't a penalty. All I'm saying is that UNLESS YOU'RE LEADING WITH THE CROWN, you're leading with the facemask.
 
Not going to quote anyone because its the general topic of the thread.

A proper form tackle does not mean driving your facemask through a player's numbers. Facemask goes on whichever side the ball is being carried on in order to gain control of the runner — coaches who teach players to put their head "on the ball" usually end up teaching their players to duck their head on contact, an even bigger no-no. Primary force should come from the backside shoulder pad. The helmet should slide off to the side during the course of the hit, not piledrive the runner into the ground.

Chung's primary force came from the contact he made with his facemask. The facemask is there to protect players from such hits, which frequently occur when the tackler misjudges the tackle, but that is not a classic form tackle.

And no one here is arguing that it was a classic form tackle. I wrote that player's lead with the facemask. Not that they should intentionally plant their facemask into a QBs chest.
 
And no one here is arguing that it was a classic form tackle. I wrote that player's lead with the facemask. Not that they should intentionally plant their facemask into a QBs chest.

Well, to be fair you did allude to this in the middle of one of your posts..........

...That was a good form tackle,...
 
And no one here is arguing that it was a classic form tackle. I wrote that player's lead with the facemask. Not that they should intentionally plant their facemask into a QBs chest.

At least three people have, with various nuances given.

Since we agree a player should not intentionally plant their facemask into a QB's chest, what is there to argue about other than the phrase "helmet to helmet," which apparently the NFL office uses to describe any questionable hit involving any part of a helmet?
 
I agree with Tedy Bruschi's take:

Mad Matt (Berkeley, CA)

Your thoughts on the Chung fine? Seemed like a legal hit up against the chest. Love his intensity!!

Tedy Bruschi (12:12 PM)

I'm a fan of Patrick also. But he did put the crown of his helmet on Chad Henne's chin and that's why his neck snapped back as it did. He still must keep that aggressiveness and play hard. If you get a fine and a penalty, so be it.

Tedy must not have watched the frame-by-frame super slo-mo.
 
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Nearly every statement in your post is incorrect. Congrats. One at a time:

A proper form tackle does not mean driving your facemask through a player's numbers.

A proper form tackle involves approach, contact and wrapup. Since Chung's approach was amazing and wrapup wasn't overly important in this case, focus on the impact. There isn't a single correct way to initiate contact on a tackle since it depends on a variety of factors...size differential, approach angle, situation (first down, goal line, etc). The primary consideration for Chung was speed and the ability to close the distance in the minimum amount of time. Shortest distance = straight line. Chung wasn't just trying to tackle Henne...he was trying to disrupt the pass. The situation would have been totally different if Henne were scrambling. So in this case, the situation called for Chung to put his body (facemask leading the way) into the closest legal point on Henne's body in the least amount of time.

Facemask goes on whichever side the ball is being carried on in order to gain control of the runner

This works well against slow, small running backs. Unfortunately you don't see many of them. Adjust to the ball side of Reggie Bush and you won't have to worry about drawing a penalty. You probably will have to hustle back for the extra point after you whiff on the tackle. Try that on Brandon Jacobs and the only question will be how far you bounce off him.

Primary force should come from the backside shoulder pad.

That only works if you have a reasonable momentum (mass x velocity) advantage. You are depending on the force of the contact to do most of the work for you. Your center of gravity is offset from the opposing player's center of gravity. If you don't knock them out with the contact, a side step or spin move can free up the runner to continue. Also, it is more difficult to wrap up after contact if you are offset against the runner.

The helmet should slide off to the side during the course of the hit,

Unless you are Steve Grogan or Merton Hanks, the location of your head doesn't stray too far from the center of your chest. If your head slides off to the side, the rest of your core will tend to follow.

not piledrive the runner into the ground.

That is a post-tackle action, which is why it is called as unnecessary roughness. In no way did Chung piledrive Henne and it doesn't necessarily follow that a hit like Chung's leads to anything like a piledriving motion. That takes additional effort and intent.

Chung's primary force came from the contact he made with his facemask.

Seriously? What is Chung's neck made out of? I will wager Henne barely moved until Chung's core made contact. In fact, the penalty would never have happened if your scenario were true. Chung's head was well below Henne's facemask at initial contact. Since Chung's head/helmet didn't have enough force (mass x acceleration) to move Henne, it slide upward as Chung's body kept moving forward.

The facemask is there to protect players from such hits, which frequently occur when the tackler misjudges the tackle, but that is not a classic form tackle.

This is just silly and your attempt to phrase it with such certainty makes it even worse. There are any number of other more important reasons for facemasks beyond "poor form" tackles. Blocking, incidental contact in pileups, just hitting the ground.
 
At least three people have, with various nuances given.

Since we agree a player should not intentionally plant their facemask into a QB's chest, what is there to argue about other than the phrase "helmet to helmet," which apparently the NFL office uses to describe any questionable hit involving any part of a helmet?

The only thing to argue about is, is any roughing the passer penalty worthy of a fine?
 
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