Chung fined for "helmet to helmet"

[Pujo]

Right, and the NFL fined Wilfork for tackling Trent Edwards by the waist.

Lol, this must be part of the league's anti-Patriots conspiracy.

I assure you, they looked at the hit, probably in slow motion and from several angles. But OK, let's listen to a bunch of partisan fans instead.

 

[ALP]

proven is this:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/291477-pat-chungs-clean-hit-henne.html

and this:

YouTube - Patriots roughing the passer penalty on Chad Henne

the only good view is the last one...from behind henne

u can see that the way chung grabs hold of henne, his upper body is NOT moving...and it is not sliding over hennes, but rigid at one spot

now that we have established that, look at AFTER burgress hits henne, henne's helmet goes forward and goes forward a GOOD amount....and STILL does not touch chung....

unless chung can somehow change his momentum mid air, he CANNOT move backwards after hitting henne, and therefore when burgress hit henne, hennes helmet would have NO ROOM to move forward, cuz chungs "crown" would be there



^^^^=proof

 

[Deus Irae]

proven is this:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/291477-pat-chungs-clean-hit-henne.html

and this:

YouTube - Patriots roughing the passer penalty on Chad Henne

the only good view is the last one...from behind henne

u can see that the way chung grabs hold of henne, his upper body is NOT moving...and it is not sliding over hennes, but rigid at one spot

now that we have established that, look at AFTER burgress hits henne, henne's helmet goes forward and goes forward a GOOD amount....and STILL does not touch chung....

unless chung can somehow change his momentum mid air, he CANNOT move backwards after hitting henne, and therefore when burgress hit henne, hennes helmet would have NO ROOM to move forward, cuz chungs "crown" would be there



^^^^=proof

That video doesn't prove, to me, that he didn't hit Henne in the head, actually.

 

[Metaphors]

umm, i think its been proven already that chungs helmet did NOT touch ANY part of henne's helmet OR facemask

It couldn't be proven one way or the other without testimony from Chung and Henne and/or physical evidence from the helmets. The video doesn't prove anything and it strongly suggests the exact opposite of your position.

and chung DID go to the side....he hit henne on the CHEST, and from henne's perspective it was not in the middle but to the LEFT, and chung never moved any higher after the hit

Absolutely not true as I said in the other thread. Watch the youtube video at time :12. That is when Chung makes initial contact. Step through one frame at a time and you most certainly see Chung's helmet level rise after the contact.

By the way, this is just nature and not some evidence of "launching". If you run into something at full speed, your head is going follow the path of least resistance (in this case, straight up) until your chest makes contact a fraction of a second later. Unless your neck is made of titanium.

the head moved back b/c of whiplash

Have someone swing a bat and hit you in the chest. Let me know which way your head moves. I'll wait...

if they want to fine him for the hit, theyll have to call it something OTHER than helmet to helmet, cuz that BS is NOT TRUE

The only BS is your grasp of physics. Chung made a great play and it was just bad luck how it turned out. Got to call the penalty but the fine seems excessive (maybe that is BS as well) since there isn't any behavior from Chung that needs to be discouraged.

 

[Pujo]

^^^^=proof

That doesn't prove crap to me, actually your narration says the opposite of what I'm seeing. But whatever your opinion of the hit - and I am willing to admit I could be wrong - strong words like "proof" have no place here, there's nothing indisputable about it.

 

[Synovia]

proven is this:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/291477-pat-chungs-clean-hit-henne.html

and this:

YouTube - Patriots roughing the passer penalty on Chad Henne
^^^^=proof

Absolutely nothing is proven in either one of those. And your "logic" is specious at best.

 

[Synovia]

unless chung can somehow change his momentum mid air, he CANNOT move backwards after hitting henne, and therefore when burgress hit henne, hennes helmet would have NO ROOM to move forward, cuz chungs "crown" would be there

You ever take physics? When two objects collide, they bounce off of each other. So yes, chung can change his momentum in mid air, and its physically impossible for him to not change speed when he hits henne.


When you hit someone in the chest, their head comes forward, not back.

 

[juny]

Well here's a screen shot from the initial contact point. If you can get fined for any follow through action, then I feel for the defenders.

Apologize for sorry MS Paint skills -- not sure why the image shrunk after I uploaded it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well here's a screen shot from the initial contact point. If you can get fined for any follow through action, then I feel for the defenders.

Apologize for sorry MS Paint skills -- not sure why the image shrunk after I uploaded it.

Players get fined/penalized for follow through action all the time.

 

[PrairiePat]

When you hit someone in the chest, their head comes forward, not back.

Exactly this. Chung's helmet clearly hit Henne's facemask or his chin - nothing else would cause his head to snap back like that.

That being said, I hope Chung keeps right on going at QBs like he did on that play, even if he gets the occasional flag for being 1" too high on his hit. I think it's clear that he wasn't 'launching himself' at Henne, or even trying to go helmet to helmet, but he just caught the bottom of the helmet or facemask accidentally.

 

[Metaphors]

Well here's a screen shot from the initial contact point. If you can get fined for any follow through action, then I feel for the defenders.

Great picture and you can see Chung's helmet below the white sideline. Advance that a frame or two and you will see Chung's helmet shoot up (as explained earlier) as Henne's helmet starts to shoot back (also explained earlier).

Agree that Chung was fined for the "follow through" (helmet hits chest, helmet goes up, QB's chest goes back and QB's chin drops down) and not for the hit itself. That is a tough one.

 

[Synovia]

Well here's a screen shot from the initial contact point.

The initial contact point is irrelevant.

 

[upstater1]

Lol, this must be part of the league's anti-Patriots conspiracy.

I assure you, they looked at the hit, probably in slow motion and from several angles. But OK, let's listen to a bunch of partisan fans instead.

I'm just not naive. If you really think these guys don't game things, you haven't been paying attention. From the rules committee to Goodell's goons, these guys are self-interested.

Same situation in baseball for a number of years. Heck, Selig use to get the top guys to prop up the Brewers as best he could.

In the NBA, the refs are the tools of the league.

Let's go back to Spygate: the Jets were caught with a camera at Foxboro. What happened?

Can you maintain this fantasy of a totally fair league office?

 

[upstater1]

From my perspective watching the game on TV, it looked like either Chung's helmet or facemask hit Henne's facemast, not his chest.

And that's totally irrelevant to what I write.

I replied that Chung did not lead with the crown of his helmet. He lead with his facemask.

CLEARLY the whole world can see that his facemask did not hit Henne's helmet.

Again, the question is, can a player attept a tackle without leading with his facemask?

 

[Pujo]

I'm just not naive. If you really think these guys don't game things, you haven't been paying attention. From the rules committee to Goodell's goons, these guys are self-interested.

Same situation in baseball for a number of years. Heck, Selig use to get the top guys to prop up the Brewers as best he could.

In the NBA, the refs are the tools of the league.

Let's go back to Spygate: the Jets were caught with a camera at Foxboro. What happened?

Can you maintain this fantasy of a totally fair league office?

You might want to find a new hobby. I don't know that I could remain an NFL fan if I thought the thing was rigged. Might as well watch Pro Wrestling then.

 

[Pujo]

Again, the question is, can a player attept a tackle without leading with his facemask?

Obviously they can, since hundreds of tackles happen every Sunday without players leading with their facemasks.

 

[upstater1]

You might want to find a new hobby. I don't know that I could remain an NFL fan if I thought the thing was rigged. Might as well watch Pro Wrestling then.

As rigged as spygate. If you think these guys aren't getting the jump on one another, you're watching another sport. do you honestly think the Patriots thinkt he ompetition committee is innocent?

Did you miss Tedy Bruschi's speech after the 2004 game against the Colts? What do you think that was in reference to? "You changed the rules... and we still beat you!"

Come on, what are you watching. Sports are run by human beings, and if you think they are without bias, you're just wrong.

 

[upstater1]

Obviously they can, since hundreds of tackles happen every Sunday without players leading with their facemasks.

Oh, what do they lead with then if not their facemasks?

 

[Pujo]

As rigged as spygate. If you think these guys aren't getting the jump on one another, you're watching another sport. do you honestly think the Patriots thinkt he ompetition committee is innocent?

Did you miss Tedy Bruschi's speech after the 2004 game against the Colts? What do you think that was in reference to? "You changed the rules... and we still beat you!"

Come on, what are you watching. Sports are run by human beings, and if you think they are without bias, you're just wrong.

Changing the rules to work better for you, as pathetic as it is, is still an above-board process. It's different from them huddling up in a league office somewhere and saying, "The Pats are too good, let's fine one of their players for a legal hit."

Spygate, IMO, was totally legit. The penalty was harsh but it's in line with the new commish being tougher than the old commish. Lesson learned, I can guarantee you the Pats won't illegally tape anyone again.

 

[Pujo]

Oh, what do they lead with then if not their facemasks?

Someone earlier in this thread explained proper tackling technique. Move your head off to the side and wrap them up. I've never heard anyone claim that proper tackling involves hitting someone with your face.