Mind Changed on Seymour?

[Ring 6]

I agree. I've always liked the Seymour trade, but these stats seem to show that opponents are avoiding running at Seymour.

Or they are running at him successfully. Stats cant tell you which it is.
The guy they never run at doesnt make many tackles but the guy who gets blocked easily doesnt either.
Bad conclusion that failure to make plays has to suggest lack of opportunity.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I haven't changed my mind. When we have home field advantage in the AFC championship game and go on to win the Super Bowl, please feel free to post this question again. Belichick has reduced the likelihood of winning in 2009 for a 2011 first rounder. He probably could have gotten a 2009 second rounder and traded forward as he did with the 3rd rounders. Or he could have focused on winning in 2009 when he KNEW that it we needed special help from the defense with all the new players and with Brady coming back from an injury.

So, we judge whether 2011 compesnsation was enough by judging Seymour's play for Oakland? I guess the fan poster principle is in play. He is no longer a patriot, so he is not a very good player. If you want to judge Seymour's Oakland performance, try his first game. Oakland's players have long since tanked and don't seem to care much.

BOTTOM LINE
We like our defense. We think it will be even better later this season. How much better would it be with the best 3-4 defensive end in the league playing for us in addition to what we have?

I understand your viewpoint but to say you can only judge Seymour by 1 game and ignore 4 is ludicrous. They gave up at 0-1 after a close loss?
If he gave up to how does that not temper your opinion of him?

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Is what we got for Seymour really so HUGE? We probably could have gotten a 2009 2nd for him and traded the pick forward for a low 2010 first. In 2010, we could have decided whether to trade the pick forward for a better 2011 pick.

That's just a long way around achieving the same result. I think Belichick prefers the 2011 pick not just because of the possible CBA changes but because we already have 1,2,2,2 in this draft and he wants to spread it out.

Other methods for achieving the same result are irrelevant, the fact of the matter still remains that Wilfork and Seymour are both UFA after the year so it was either what they did or a 2011 #3 comp pick for Seymour.

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand your viewpoint but to say you can only judge Seymour by 1 game and ignore 4 is ludicrous. They gave up at 0-1 after a close loss?
If he gave up to how does that not temper your opinion of him?

Probably because he's seen the train wreck that is JaMarcus Russell.

 

[mgteich]

People focus on what we got versus what we could get. His 2009 value to the patriots isn't discussed much at all.

I'm sure that we also could trade Wilfork, Thomas and/or Green today and get more than we would next year. Ditto for Mankins and Gost.

In the end, there will be no way to judge how much Seymour would ahve been able to add to this year's team.
===========================

I agree that getting a 2011 first speeds up the process. I was just point out that a 2011 first prbably isn't any more valuable than a 2009 2nd oe even a high 2009 third. Given the number of picks we had in 2009 and have in 2010, I agree that getting compensation in 2011 was a good idea. My preference would have been to not make the trade at all.
=================

That's just a long way around achieving the same result. I think Belichick prefers the 2011 pick not just because of the possible CBA changes but because we already have 1,2,2,2 in this draft and he wants to spread it out.

Other methods for achieving the same result are irrelevant, the fact of the matter still remains that Wilfork and Seymour are both UFA after the year so it was either what they did or a 2011 #3 comp pick for Seymour.

 

[mgteich]

A SIMPLE QUESTION
Do you think that the 2009 defense would have been much better with Seymour added to the team?

I understand your viewpoint but to say you can only judge Seymour by 1 game and ignore 4 is ludicrous. They gave up at 0-1 after a close loss?
If he gave up to how does that not temper your opinion of him?

 

[shmessy]

You are correct...it's already is in his pocket...and probably not coming out.

What a cheapskate, eh?

Way to go, Bjorn.

 

[borg]

What a cheapskate, eh?

Way to go, Bjorn.

The fanboys used to argue that it was necessary for the Krafts to mark up ticket prices higher than any other team or charge more for parking than other teams in order to help privately finance the stadium....fair enough....but shouldn't this train of thought be ammended...."Highest ticket and parking prices to help finance a private stadium and entertainment complex." Maybe the $5 mill in unused cap will ease the Kraft's burden of 25 empty stores.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Probably because he's seen the train wreck that is JaMarcus Russell.

No kidding- I think some people here don't understand exactly how bad Russell is. Worst professional quarterback I've ever seen- the kind of guy who can take an otherwise-not-terrible team and make it the worst in the league. The Raiders have a lot of talent, they're just terribly coached and criminally quarterbacked. Russell might be worse than Ryan Leaf ever was.

 

[zoostation]

Interesting.

Except belichick traded Seymour for a 3rd. Thats what happens to its value when it is 2 seasons deferred.

I bet the list just grew.

1 season defered. And it's = to a second (dying to say interesting....but I know you will on your response)

 

[muzz]

It might be EQUIVALENT to a 3rd Right Now, but I assure you that unless they trade down, it will be a 1st, and most likely a HIGH 1st..
And they will actually be able to afford it with the Rookie cap that will be in place.
in 2011 folks may look at that decision as a stroke of genius, in the meantime Bill is taking a gamble..

Folks don't agree with it, that's fine(not sure I agree, but I understand).....when they are the guy that is calling the shots they can make whatever call they want...the man in charge is NEVER going to please everyone.

Anyone that is a Manager will tell ya that for certain.

 

[Wretch]

But thats faulty logic because it was defered by choice because of the CBA situaiton. TO say an 11 1st is worth less than the 10 1st when BB chose the 11 over the 10 is incorrect or simply obtuse to the factors influencing the value.

I'm not saying a 2011 pick is worth less than a 2010 pick, merely that BB didn't trade Seymour for equivalent of a 3rd round pick.

BB might gambling slightly on the implementation of a wage scale or he might want an additional 1st round pick in 2011 because the Pats have so many early picks next year and only so many players can make the roster. Only BB knows his calculus for wanting a 2011 pick and he's not talking about it.

 

[DarrylS]

Seymour never had very good stats, but was often praised highly by BB as having a great game... not sure his stats on a really crappy team mean much of anything.