Carucci: Peppers close to going to NE for #34 [mergedx3]

[Patjew]

I have no idea what you people are talking about in half of this thread.

It has gone in some strange, silly, angry directions. It's like 10 threads in one.

 

[RayClay]

No. That was just a super-vague descrption of any generic pass rusher in pressure heavy schemes. Further, it was dumbed down for the average consumer. Please show me any scheme in which there's this willy-nilly pass rusher just roaming around looking for a tiny crevice to penetrate.
That's not how pass rushing works. There is no Elephant in a 3-4 defense. Nor in any of it's permutations. There is no defense that just has a designated rusher running around trying to find a post-snap crease. Think about it. Do you have any idea how hard that would be to accomplish? Not to be a ****, but nevermind the coaching, have you even played football? It's physically impossible to have a player that does that.

Look, I made a post with my understanding that writers and coaches have loosely used that term. I watched the 1986 super Bowl as I assume everyone else did and they had a special on Dent using that term. Rightly or wrongly, every player I mentioned has been called that by coaches or writers at one time. I know they are not talking about the same thing, that's why Price said "loosely defined" and I said catchall.

I'm certain coaches have to divide the responsibilities in different ways (vaguely defined) depending on how they're using a pass rusher that moves around.

It's really stupid to keep saying I'm not an expert and not a coach, when I'm the one who has said I'm a casual fan and not an expert.

I like to open a cold beer and watch the game on Sunday. I've been watching the Patriots (reading in the paper for a long time, of course) for 47 years.

The fact is, a lot of coaches and writers have described DE's and OLB's as playing the "Elephant" position. That's all I said. If they are wrong, argue with them, or Chris Price or whoever.

It's my opinion, based on what I read, that it's no guarantee a DE will work at OLB any time and there's not much precedence for one of Peppers size.

I do think Belichick will find a creative way to use his immense talent, so you can call it what you want.

I think it's great we have some coaches and analysts with real skills here and most of them are really modest and generous with their time and knowledge.

If some people think it makes them look impressive to call other fans ignorant, that's fine, I've never stood for that and never will.

 

[eom]

I would have to take exception to the idea of an elephant fitting through a crevice.
wouldn't he more correctly be seeking a crevasse?

 

[TripleOption]

If some people think it makes them look impressive to call other fans ignorant, that's fine, I've never stood for that and never will.

You may not stand for it, but you sure are a prime example. It's one thing to say that you're not an expert; it's another to say you are not and then proceed to argue as if you are.

 

[RayClay]

i would have to take exception to the idea of an elephant fitting through a crevice.
Wouldn't he more correctly be seeking a crevasse?

 

[TripleOption]

every player I mentioned has been called that by coaches or writers at one time. ...

The fact is, a lot of coaches and writers have described DE's and OLB's as playing the "Elephant" position...

A lot of coaches? Who? Where?

 

[Deus Irae]

I have no idea what you people are talking about in half of this thread.

Don't worry about it. Some of the people who are absolutely positive about it seem to have no idea what they are talking about either.

 

[TripleOption]

Coach, by now you surely must have noticed the incorrect regurgitation of player names going around here? For example, if someone is going to play OLB for the Pats, that person is going to play elephant. They don't actually know what an elephant is. The same type person will then identify the three linebackers in a 4-3 as Sam, Mike and WLB because they have heard Mayock use Sam and Mike but still don't know what Will is. Everyone knows the 46 is just a crazy 10 in the box defense. Who's Doug Plank?

Yes, and that is why I am making the point. It gets passed around, and now it seems every writer calls a pass rusher an "Elephant" without having a clue what that means.

Who? Doug Plank? I thought the 46 was a 4-6 with 4 DL and 6 LB?

We had a Freshman assistant that called his Strong End a "Sparrow"...that made for a lot of eye rolling as you can imagine. Nothing gets a kid pumped up like his position being named after a songbird.

 

[CrazyDave]

Do we need to break out the hardware?

 

[RayClay]

You may not stand for it, but you sure are a prime example. It's one thing to say that you're not an expert; it's another to say you are not and then proceed to argue as if you are.

Everything i said makes sense and doesn't require diagramming plays.

You're an expert on the transition from DE to OLB. Peppers will have no problem huh?

Well I think the General Manager of The Steelers is more of an expert than you.

“The hardest transition is for the tweener defensive end who is 260, 265 pounds,” said Pittsburgh general manager Kevin Colbert. “Linebackers are going to have to be able to do certain things in coverage. The 265-, 270-pound end will have the most difficulty. It limits your pool to a certain extent, and it also reminds you: You’re going to have to have a lot of patience with these guys as they develop. Everyone who has been in our system as outside linebackers usually took a minimum of two years and usually three to four years before they were ready to contribute.

Of course he doesn't have an opinion on 6'7" 290 pounds.

Every thing I've said makes sense.

You got your feelings hurt because you came in all sarcastic saying McGinest never played linebacker when he played it a lot in college.

Keep it up, I'm sure other members are getting a chuckle.

 

[TripleOption]

No. That was just a super-vague descrption of any generic pass rusher in pressure heavy schemes. Further, it was dumbed down for the average consumer. Please show me any scheme in which there's this willy-nilly pass rusher just roaming around looking for a tiny crevice to penetrate.
That's not how pass rushing works. There is no Elephant in a 3-4 defense. Nor in any of it's permutations. There is no defense that just has a designated rusher running around trying to find a post-snap crease. Think about it. Do you have any idea how hard that would be to accomplish? Not to be a ****, but nevermind the coaching, have you even played football? It's physically impossible to have a player that does that.

Not to mention that Belichick is constantly talking about run fits, responsibilities and "do YOUR job". I can't imagine he would ever give a guy complete freedom, even Taylor. The 3-4 2 gap is an absolutely AWFUL defense if not played right. Any coach who has run a 5-2 in high school can attest to that. If you have the right players who do the right things, it's great. Bad players or undisciplined ones...well, think Monty Beisel and Chad Brown at ILB a few years ago. A total sieve. If you're going to just unleash guys, run a 4-4 or even a 4-3, at least your guys will get upfield and make a play now and then.

 

[TripleOption]

Everything i said makes sense and doesn't require diagramming plays.

You're an expert on the transition from DE to OLB. Peppers will have no problem huh?

Well I think the General Manager of The Steelers is more of an expert than you.



Of course he doesn't have an opinion on 6'7" 290 pounds.

Every thing I've said makes sense.

You got your feelings hurt because you came in all sarcastic saying McGinest never played linebacker when he played it a lot in college.

Keep it up, I'm sure other members are getting a chuckle.

I am sure they are too, at your expense. Do you think that exact question was put on the GM? About Peppers? You seem to keep trying to fit general statements about Cornerbacks, or LB's or whatever into statements about Peppers. I've said it many times; the guy is special. He is a freakish athlete that played football AND Basketball at NC. He would be successful in this defense.

Now, seriously, stop checking google for sport articles (usually incredibly inaccurate) and pick up a football book by a football coach, not a writer. Maybe you learn something...or maybe you just continue to live off Wikipedia.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am too, at your expense. Do you think that exact question was put on the GM? About Peppers? You seem to keep trying to fit general statements about Cornerbacks, or LB's or whatever into statements about Peppers. I've said it many times; the guy is special. He is a freakish athlete that played football AND Basketball. He would be successful in this defense.

Now, seriously, stop checking google for sport articles (usually incredibly inaccurate) and pick up a football book by a football coach, not a writer. Maybe you learn something...or maybe you just continue to live off Wikipedia.

Why don't you educate him about his mistake by going to those books you mention and pulling the quotes to prove your point? And, while you're at it, perhaps you could give Jamie Dukes a call and educate him as well:

The Pack is making the switch to the 3-4 defense. Aaron Kampman is moving to the Elephant position, but Orakpo would provide flexibility to allow Kampman to play defensive end in addition to rush outside linebacker.

Mock draft: Stafford's Cutler-type skills belong in Detroit

 

[TripleOption]

Why don't you educate him about his mistake by going to those books you mention and pulling the quotes to prove your point? And, while you're at it, perhaps you could give Jamie Dukes a call and educate him as well:



Mock draft: Stafford's Cutler-type skills belong in Detroit

I have never seen a commentator make more stupid statements or cater to the lowest common denominator than Jamie Dukes.

Bottom line, an Elephant is a 49ers 4-3 term. If the media wants to twist it into something else, there's always people who will listen. I was watching Navy this year and a commentator (who claimed to be an option expert) watched Navy run Counter Option and said "and that was ummm...the spinner option play" It was evident that he had no clue and made it up on the spot...like many of them do. He proceeded to make up names and spew inaccuracies for the entire game. Every option coach I know was horrified...but I am quite sure the general public thought nothing of it.

Maybe YOU can call Jamie and ask him where an "Elephant" lines up in a 3-4.

 

[eom]

yeah, while you're on the phone w/jamie dukes could you ask him to retire from tv, plz?

 

[JSn]

So... Did we sign peppers yet?

 

[TripleOption]

while you're at it, perhaps you could give Jamie Dukes a call and educate him as well:

"The Patriots just cut the wrong Matt"

--Jamie Dukes on the release of Matt Gutierrez and not Matt Cassell

 

[Deus Irae]

"The Patriots just cut the wrong Matt"

--Jamie Dukes on the release of Matt Gutierrez and not Matt Cassell

Bill Belichick signed Duane Starks.

 

[Patjew]

Why is everyone so friggin' mad.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Bill Belichick signed Duane Starks.

Now there's a painful memory that you did not need to remind us of