The Official Round 1 2013 NFL Draft Thread

[Brady2Moss]

Chung was a starter while he was here. Not sure why you think otherwise. Ohrnberger? May not have been a starter with the Pats, but that was due to injury. But guess what.. He's still in the league. As are Butler and Chung.

You choose to see only what you want.

They were busts, your excuse making doesn't make them any better than they were. Chung started a whole lot of games the last 2 years .

 

[DaBruinz]

Francis was a UDFA who beat out Bequette. Cunningham was an underperforming draft pick who beat out Bequette. Scott was a FA who woefully underperformed but still kept Bequette on the bench.

Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that Bequette was underwhelming, at best, last year, needs to read some football 101 textbooks.

Cunningham is a former 2nd round pick. Scott didn't woefully "underperform". He actually did MORE with the Patriots than he had in his previous year with the Raiders.

Now, as for your last comment. Could you show me where I said anything to the contrary? Nope. You can't. Do yourself a favor and stop pretending like you know what people are implying. Just accept what is written. You'll be a much better poster for it.

 

[Rob0729]

They were busts, your excuse making doesn't make them any better than they were. Chung started a whole lot of games the last 2 years .

In all honesty, who cares about 2009 now? It was Caserio's first draft as the head of personnel. He looks like he needed a little time to get his feet wet and get his scouting staff in order. He did have had three very good to outstanding drafts since that point.

If the Caserio and his staff of today was advising Belichick in 2009, I bet the Pats would have made much better selections.

Besides, at the time, most people felt Chung was a good pick where he was drafted.

 

[Brady2Moss]

In all honesty, who cares about 2009 now? It was Caserio's first draft as the head of personnel. He looks like he needed a little time to get his feet wet and get his scouting staff in order. He did have had three very good to outstanding drafts since that point.

If the Caserio and his staff of today was advising Belichick in 2009, I bet the Pats would have made much better selections.

Besides, at the time, most people felt Chung was a good pick where he was drafted.

BB has and always will have final say in all these selections its always on him, that's how he wants it, so let's not assign praise or blame to anyone but him. If they can hit on all these picks that will be great for the team, I just hope they don't miss out on a good receiver for "value".

 

[DaBruinz]

Meh, Hernandez didn't fit the bill coming out of college too and he worked out fine.

On the other hand, Chad Jackson did fit the bill coming out of college and look at how he turned out.

Where do you get that Chad Jackson fit the bill coming out of College? It was well know that Jackson needed EXTENSIVE help with learning the routes during college. In fact, it took him 3 years to learn them. And, despite all the help, this is what was said about Jackson :

Lacks a good feel for route running, as he takes too many soft angle cuts and fails to sink his hips properly to come out of his breaks cleanly...Needs to show a better feel for sticks and boundaries..

Hernandez was a much better route runner coming out of college than Jackson was. The only reason Hernandez was a 4th round pick was the Drug Test Failure for Pot...

 

[DaBruinz]

This would make more sense (not much, but a little), if Revis the Great hadn't gotten to the AFCCG twice, including once after beating BB the Great's team.

Actually, Deus, it makes perfect sense. Look at what happened last year WITHOUT Revis. What did the Jets do? Not much of anything. In fact, when injuries took their toll, the Jets were scrambling..

 

[JackBauer]

Where do you get that Chad Jackson fit the bill coming out of College? It was well know that Jackson needed EXTENSIVE help with learning the routes during college. In fact, it took him 3 years to learn them. And, despite all the help, this is what was said about Jackson :

This is true. Daboll and the scouts all hated Jackson. BB decided to override them and put his faith in Meyer, instead.

Hopefully he doesn't do anything like that again.

 

[Rob0729]

BB has and always will have final say in all these selections its always on him, that's how he wants it, so let's not assign praise or blame to anyone but him. If they can hit on all these picks that will be great for the team, I just hope they don't miss out on a good receiver for "value".

Belichick doesn't scout players himself except for a select few (and that select few are usually based off the recommendation of Caserio and his staff). He relies on Caserio and his staff to give him a list of players with scouting reports and give him recommendations on who to take and not to take. His role is huge in the draft.

Yes, Belichick has final say, but that say is based on Caserio and his staff's hard work and recommendations.

Caserio has played a huge role in the last three drafts and their success. Personally, I give a lot of credit to the last three drafts to him because based on the previous three, there might have been a breakdown in the scouting department before he got promoted.

 

[Deus Irae]

Cunningham is a former 2nd round pick. Scott didn't woefully "underperform". He actually did MORE with the Patriots than he had in his previous year with the Raiders.

Now, as for your last comment. Could you show me where I said anything to the contrary? Nope. You can't. Do yourself a favor and stop pretending like you know what people are implying. Just accept what is written. You'll be a much better poster for it.

Dude, you were wrong. He got beaten out by a UDFA, for goodness' sake. Take your own advice on things.

 

[Ivan]

Let's use a trade scenario. Let's say the Patriots decide to move up tonight. They give their 2nd and one 3rd to acquire Woods or Alllen. In the grand scheme of things if they were to of picked one of these two up at 29 last night a majority would of been happy. I don't think some on this board are happy no matter what they do actually. The end result would be a really good wr that you could of picked at 29 and you also netted 4th and 7th round picks. Who possibly can't be happy with that? After their trade they still have a 2nd,3rd,4th and 3 7ths.

I think maybe part of the crying here is people think that all the good wr's will be gone if the Pats stay put at 52. I don't know, but I like having the Talib pick back. That bothered me quite a bit not having a 4th.

I agree, there are a number of posters who simply are not going to be happy no matter what they do. And i agree that they have actually maximized the value of the pick by going this route as they have the option to move back up if they need to, which they did with Gronkowski and others, or they could sit tight if they believe the guys they want are falling into their laps.

I also think that Belichick has restored their flexibility for this draft and future drafts by making this deal. He doesn't have to operate from a position of weakness and sacrifice future picks to move, and I don't think you can understate the importance of that to this franchise.

I'm really looking forward to tonight and seeing how they play these picks, and if they can get 2 WR's and parlay one of them into a first through third rounder in next year's draft then it will be a huge success imo. I would love something like drafting Wheaton and D. Rogers while trading a third for a 2nd next year.

I usually don't like the trade out of the first but this year is the exception.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually, Deus, it makes perfect sense. Look at what happened last year WITHOUT Revis. What did the Jets do? Not much of anything. In fact, when injuries took their toll, the Jets were scrambling..

Go back and read what was said. It made no sense at all. It was idiotic, really, and he knew it. He was doing some late night trolling, as he sometimes likes to do. I don't begrudge him that at all. I just hate it when he trolls with such weak stuff.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you have to go back 5 years and a different GM to make your point, then your point probably sucks.

Considering that BB is the GM, not Caserio, you kind of don't have a point. Caserio is the Director of Player Personnel. Caserio was promoted to that Position on February 21, 2008. This was to start integrating him into the draft process while Pioli was still around.

2010, 2011, and 2012 and 2013 are definitively Caserio's.

2006, 2007 and 2008 were probably the 3 worst drafts in the Belichick era for actual Picks, though 2007 was arguably the worst draft in the modern era for players available in general. What was going on at that time? Well, for the 2006 draft, we know that the Scouts and position coaches had their feather's ruffled when BB over-road them to take Maroney and Jackson. Then you had all the rumors of Pioli leaving for almost 3 years, which I'm sure unsettled people. Then you had Pioli AND Dimitroff leave in 2009 and 2008, respectively. That upheavel certainly didn't help matters.

Since then, however, you can see the progression as Caserio and the changes in the scouting department got in line with Belichick and things have been better.

 

[belichick010405]

Dude, you were wrong. Take your own advice on things.

God. I really wish this guy and Brady2Moss went to Foxborough and told BB and Caserio that they suck at their job. Hopefully - it would make the evening news.

 

[DaBruinz]

You can ignore anything I said about the 2008 draft if you are inclined to think Pioli was the GM before 2009. Simple english.

Except that what you just wrote isn't simple english. In fact, because you say " if you are inclined to think that Pioli was the GM" that means you doubt what he is saying and you think you know otherwise. Well, you are correct in that Pioli wasn't the GM. Belichick is the GM. Pioli was the VP of Player Personnel. That being said, when it came to the draft, he and Belichick were supposed to be equals.

Fact is that Pioli was the VP of Player Personnel from 2002-2009 when he left for the Chiefs. Dimitroff was the Director of College Scouting from 2003 - 2008, when he left for the Falcons.

Pioli certainly had a hand in the 2008 draft and the work for the 2009 draft was 90% complete when he left. However, Caserio was a part of that process, though it was only his first.

 

[JMC00]

Patriots Today - Inside the draft room


If the board behind Belichick and Caserio is their big board (that's the only other reason why it would be blurred out) looks like most of their guys are still available.

 

[DaBruinz]

The history of this regime's inability to draft a productive WR is precisely the reason why I think they should draft someone they don't typically target.

Yes, if you drink the mediot lemonade, then you would be parroting them in saying that they have an inability to draft a productive WR. The problem is that they HAVE drafted productive WRs. Just because they haven't met the media's standards doesn't change that.

The Pats have only drafted 9 WRs under Belichick.

Jeremy Ebert - Rookie, 7th rounder. Was cut, but brought back. Re-signed for 2014.
Taylor Price - 3rd round pick. Showed some promise. Cut due to injuries at other positions. Claimed by Jaguars. Since cut.
Julian Edelman - Has become the best punt returner in Pats History. A converted QB who had never played the position previously. a 7th round pick
Brandon Tate - A 3rd round pick who was recovering from a torn ACL injury. Re-injured the knee in his first game. Was here for 3 seasons.
Chad Jackson - Injured his knee on special teams in the AFCCG as a rookie.
P.K. Sam - 1st round talent, fell to the 5th round due to maturity issues. Never made an impact.
Bethel Johnson - No route running ability. Good kick returner. Minor impact.
David Givens - 7th round pick who really made an impact.
Deion Branch - 2nd round pick who excelled with Brady.

Please note that I do not consider Matt Slater to be a WR. This is because he is almost strictly a special teamer and has seen more time at safety than at WR.

Contrary to the media, the Pats have 3 WR who have made impacts. Another two in Johnson and Tate who have been marginal, but derailed due to injuries. 3 have had no impact and 1 the jury is still out on.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Belichick doesn't scout players himself except for a select few (and that select few are usually based off the recommendation of Caserio and his staff). He relies on Caserio and his staff to give him a list of players with scouting reports and give him recommendations on who to take and not to take. His role is huge in the draft.

Yes, Belichick has final say, but that say is based on Caserio and his staff's hard work and recommendations.

Caserio has played a huge role in the last three drafts and their success. Personally, I give a lot of credit to the last three drafts to him because based on the previous three, there might have been a breakdown in the scouting department before he got promoted.

That is fair then and I hope they come away with the guys they want. Last 3 drafts have been much better top to bottom.

 

[condon84]

Yes, if you drink the mediot lemonade, then you would be parroting them in saying that they have an inability to draft a productive WR. The problem is that they HAVE drafted productive WRs. Just because they haven't met the media's standards doesn't change that.

The Pats have only drafted 9 WRs under Belichick.

Jeremy Ebert - Rookie, 7th rounder. Was cut, but brought back. Re-signed for 2014.
Taylor Price - 3rd round pick. Showed some promise. Cut due to injuries at other positions. Claimed by Jaguars. Since cut.
Julian Edelman - Has become the best punt returner in Pats History. A converted QB who had never played the position previously. a 7th round pick
Brandon Tate - A 3rd round pick who was recovering from a torn ACL injury. Re-injured the knee in his first game. Was here for 3 seasons.
Chad Jackson - Injured his knee on special teams in the AFCCG as a rookie.
P.K. Sam - 1st round talent, fell to the 5th round due to maturity issues. Never made an impact.
Bethel Johnson - No route running ability. Good kick returner. Minor impact.
David Givens - 7th round pick who really made an impact.
Deion Branch - 2nd round pick who excelled with Brady.

Please note that I do not consider Matt Slater to be a WR. This is because he is almost strictly a special teamer and has seen more time at safety than at WR.

Contrary to the media, the Pats have 3 WR who have made impacts. Another two in Johnson and Tate who have been marginal, but derailed due to injuries. 3 have had no impact and 1 the jury is still out on.

Givens and Branch are the only productive WRs the BB regime has drafted. And that was almost a decade ago. After Givens, whatever strategy we've used in trying to develop a productive WR has not worked.

 

[DaBruinz]

Also, note the #4 received is at #105. That's an early 4th rounder - - near the beginning of a new day of drafting on Saturday.

(Although, that's what pissed me off about the Dowling pick two years ago. They took him at #33 - - 1st pick of the new day 2nd round. That pick had HUGE value - - and they used it up on a reach whom they could have gotten lower down - - and he has yet to really come off the shelf for them. That was a BIG wasted opportunity).

It's value is only what the market will bear. If no one is willing to pay what the Pats felt it was worth, then you can do one of two things. Either take a crappy trade (which I seem to remember people lambasting the Pats for last year) or take the person that is ranked highest on your board even if he's not worth the value. Heck, for all we know, no one offered the Pats what they felt Dowling was worth, value wise. For instance, let's say the Pats felt that Dowling was worth a 2nd and 4th, but no one was offering that. Then what?

 

[DaBruinz]

They were busts, your excuse making doesn't make them any better than they were. Chung started a whole lot of games the last 2 years .

It's not excuse making. It's called REALITY. Something you have a hard time dealing with.

Chung started 13 of 14 that he was healthy for in 2010. He started all 8 games he played in in 2011. And he started 6 of 6 before he went down to injury and finished the season with 2 starts. He had 4 games where he didn't start.

But, yeah, he sure wasn't a starter. It would seem that YOU are the one making excuses. Not me..