Stop blaming the coordinators

[ausbacker]

I don't think this point has any validity in it. The Patriot teams that won so many games and elevated the team to "Best team of the decade" status is not the same team we are seeing now. Different coordinators, different players.

A better indication to how this team will perform this year is to look at last year's team. Same coordinators, same key players. How much the team develops as the year goes on is unkown, but to talk about this team and relate it to the team that merited "the best team of the decade" is misleading.

Regarding who to blame, i don't know what you are trying to say if we can't blame the coordinators. From what I saw and from reading a lot of other posters and analysts (including Bruschi) observations, adjustments needed to be made. Who else has a hand in making adjustments other than the coordinators and Bill? People can always say, "hey the players didn't execute." But ask yourself this question, were the players put in the best position to succeed?

Don't bother arguing with PR Irae. He doesn't like being called out and having his hypocrisy shown for what it is. In fact, if you challenge him he'll just PM you complaining that you're a dullard, the world revolves around him and provide you the courtesy of informing you that you're on his ignore list. It's a sad existence for a sad person.

As for the Patriots, well you're right. There is a certain thing called a "trend". Win as a team lose as a team.

 

[condon84]

Don't bother arguing with PR Irae. He doesn't like being called out and having his hypocrisy shown for what it is. In fact, if you challenge him he'll just PM you complaining that you're a dullard, the world revolves around him and provide you the courtesy of informing you that you're on his ignore list. It's a sad existence for a sad person.

As for the Patriots, well you're right. There is a certain thing called a "trend". Win as a team lose as a team.

Thanks for the heads up. There's a couple of posters here that's got me convinced they work for the Patriots. Or they're doing a schtick.

Makes for interesting reading though.

 

[mr3putt]

Thats because you are watching the end of the play.
Look at where Moss is when Brady lets go. Its the 35, and there is absolutely no way a 100% effort from Moss doesnt have him behind Cromartie by the 3 yard line, after Cromarttie has to turn and run.

Rather than decide you disagree go watch the play. Its plain as day.

Nope
Watched it again
He was late picking up the ball and made a weak effort to defend the INT
Cromo had the position

 

[IllegalContact]

I blame coaching for the fact that players do not get any better once they get here. Either the player shows up and is an instant hit, or they are crap and remain that way.

Don't see a whole lot of progress with anyone. And that's on the coaches

 

[MoLewisrocks]

End of debate (See above in red)

OK, so if we are to rely solely on the post game assessment of competitors, Moss must indeed be a slouch/dog/quitter who takes plays off and checks out in the face of physicality and adversity...Hmm...

 

[DaBruinz]

It is absolute and utter nonsense to not put blame on the Coordinators. While there are execution issues, there are issues with the offensive and defensive play calls as well.

You pointed out about Brady not making the passes to Moss downfield. Well, why were they called to begin with? That falls onto the coordinator.

On defense, while Butler did grab on the 2nd PI call, he didn't grab on the 1st one. Also, Butler had no safety help much of the game. Again, that falls on the coordinator.

Dustin Keller trounced the Pats last year with catches up the seams. He did it again this year because we put a safety on his who's cover skills are below average. We also tried a LB who's cover skills were below average. Those decisions fall on the Coordinator.


The Coordinators share just as much blame as the players.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't understand why this is always such a polarizing issue.

Execution and coaching are linked. Fact.

It's the coaches job to put the players in a position to execute.

It's the players job to execute.

If the players are not executing based on the position the coaches put them in, the coach is responsible for making adjustments which put them in a better position to execute. It is the player's job to make those adjustments and execute.

No one here is truly capable of deciphering how to cut up the blame pie on Sunday. Not unless they get their hands on film tape and a copy of both the Patriots and Jets game plans.

But to dismiss either side of its fault seems over-the-top. Belichick said it best "we have to coach better, we have to play better." I take him at his word when he says that - both the staff and the players have had better days than this past Sunday.

 

[StevePatsFan]

How many times do you need to see Brady plaintively look toward the sideline asking to get the call.

O'Brien is not prepared to call the next play.

Which says a lot.

You are exactly right, against the Bengals Tom had plenty of time to get up to the LOS and survey the D set the protection and go.

This week they were scrambling up to the line with maybe 5 seconds on the clock inexcusable, hell they couldn't get the FG unit in on time!

 

[emoney_33]

We don't have an official Offensive and Defensive coordinator so we surely can't blame them

2nd half woes on the road... take 9.

 

[The Brandon Five]

We have coordinators? Who are they?

 

[Rob0729]

I totally blame the coordinators. I also totally blame the players. The coordinators are neither all to blame or absolved of all blame.

It is clear that the adjustments were not good on Sunday. I hated how O'Brien mixed in the run (or abandoned it all together). On one drive he ran BJGE three or four plays in a row and I was shouting at my TV for a play action. The defensive coaches couldn't figure out how to stop leaving Butler on an island when it was clear that people were picking on him. The cushions they were giving didn't help.

That said, Brady made decisions, the defense didn't pressure Sanchez enough, players made stupid penalties, etc. The players weren't executing either.

I look at this as a total team failure. I blame the coaches and players. To say otherwise is crazy. The Pats still have one of the most talented offenses in the league and it may be as talented as the 2007 with the new weapons for Brady.

 

[PatsSox363804]

This offense has always been better when we run short passes and screens and throw an occasional deep ball. Its getting to the point where they want to throw 3 or 4 deep balls a game without setting them up with the short stuff first. They need to stop forcing the issue and get back to taking what the defense gives them, and frankly they need a good OC for this. Look at what the Saints do, they use all of their weapone, consistently, soemthing we've gotten away from. On the final drive it was all screen passes, checkdowns, and short passes to the TE before the bomb to Colston.

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Dustin Keller of the Jets has something to say:

Extra Points - New England Patriots News and Analysis - Boston.com

"Whatever they did, whatever they adjusted to, we made adjustments and counteracted them," said tight end Dustin Keller, walking out of the locker room after the game.

Who is he referring to by they isn't that the coordinators?

 

[captain stone]

As you noted, Pees is no longer with the team. The coordinators are not the same. The players are not the same. This angst is all over one game against a team that most of this board spent an entire week underestimating. The attempt to blame the coaches is nothing more than a pathetic job of scapegoating.

If you're saying that it's wrong to blame the coordinators & absolve the players, then I agree.

If you're saying that it's right to blame the players & absolve the coordinators, then I respectfully disagree.

Everyone - players & coaches - are to blame for what has transpired in both games this year, and in every road game last year.

In some cases, the players are simply not good enough.
In other cases, they are not executing well enough.
And in other cases, the coaches' game management is not good enough to put these players in better position to succeed.

Probably in that order.

 

[BradyFTW!]

When Weis was the coordinator, it was NEM who was insane in his attacks about it. With McDaniels, it was Maverick4. You're just stepping up into a line of people who take the easy way out and use the coordinators as the scapegoats.

The difference is that those were so obviously insane because Weis and McDaniels were flat-out good at their jobs. Anyone who argued otherwise was just nitpicking; McDaniels coordinated the highest-scoring offense in history, and we won 3 SBs with Weis, so they both must be pretty good.

Bill O'Brien, OTOH, has shown very little to indicate that he's even an average playcaller, let alone a good one. The Patriots' offense has consistently gone into the toilet in the second half since he's been here.

 

[emoney_33]

Bill O'Brien, OTOH, has shown very little to indicate that he's even an average playcaller, let alone a good one. The Patriots' offense has consistently gone into the toilet in the second half since he's been here.

And he has yet to earn the title of OC, that tells me a lot. If the players are good enough in the 1st half, why the heck can't they be good enough in the 2nd half.

 

[letekro]

And he has yet to earn the title of OC, that tells me a lot. If the players are good enough in the 1st half, why the heck can't they be good enough in the 2nd half.

If the coaches are good enough in the 1st half, why the heck can't they be good enough in the 2nd half????

The second half troubles coincide with post-injury Brady and the introduction of a younger, less experienced defense. Do you think either or both of these "player" factors MIGHT have something to do with the inability to produce in crunch time????

 

[emoney_33]

If the coaches are good enough in the 1st half, why the heck can't they be good enough in the 2nd half????

The coaches have to answer that one, because the opposition's players aren't changing but their coaches are making adjustments (from 1st half to 2nd half).

The second half troubles coincide with post-injury Brady and the introduction of a younger, less experienced defense. Do you think either or both of these "player" factors MIGHT have something to do with the inability to produce in crunch time????

Yes, well except the whole post-injury Brady thing. However, the coaching is still a bigger factor IMO.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If the coaches are good enough in the 1st half, why the heck can't they be good enough in the 2nd half????

The second half troubles coincide with post-injury Brady and the introduction of a younger, less experienced defense. Do you think either or both of these "player" factors MIGHT have something to do with the inability to produce in crunch time????

Shameless pimping: check out the latest PatsCast for an explanation. Basically, Belichick draws up the initial gameplan, which kicks ass, then it's the coordinators' job to make halftime adjustments and manage the game on the fly once it goes off script. Bill O'Brien hasn't demonstrated much ability to do that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The difference is that those were so obviously insane because Weis and McDaniels were flat-out good at their jobs. Anyone who argued otherwise was just nitpicking; McDaniels coordinated the highest-scoring offense in history, and we won 3 SBs with Weis, so they both must be pretty good.

Bill O'Brien, OTOH, has shown very little to indicate that he's even an average playcaller, let alone a good one. The Patriots' offense has consistently gone into the toilet in the second half since he's been here.

That's what they said about Josh in 2005 and 2006. And even to a lesser extent in 2008 once they convinced themselves Cassel was certainly a relevation and therefore no excuse for McDaniel's crappy management of that offense.

The JETS fans have been blaming Shotty Jr. for every failure they've endured through three QB changes and three HC defensive scheme and system changes to date. It's what fans do because it's easy.