Stop blaming the coordinators

[Deus Irae]

I agree that Brady played a poor game.

I still believe that better coaching would have helped produce better performance. The offense hasn't really seemed in synch under O'brien, no matter how much talent is added.

How could better coaching (which is playcalling, in this instance) have gotten those passes completed? Those misses are on Brady and/or the receivers, and the strip sack is on the pass protection.

 

[Rob0729]

People have had issues with the offensive coordinator since there have been message boards, regardless of which team or offensive coordinator you're talking about.

Although I agree people are quick to blame the offensive coordinator for everything that goes wrong even on defense, but I do think O'Brien was part of the problem on Sunday. Same thing for Patricia and Pepper (or whoever calls the defensive plays). I don't know if they were the biggest part of the problem or even in the top 10-20 reasons they lost, but they were clearly a factor.

I usually say that when a team loses this bad (and they were clearly outclassed in the second half), it is a teamwide failure. That is players and coaches. McDaniels and Weis had games where they crapped the bed too. No OC or DC is immune to a bad game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Although I agree people are quick to blame the offensive coordinator for everything that goes wrong even on defense, but I do think O'Brien was part of the problem on Sunday. Same thing for Patricia and Pepper (or whoever calls the defensive plays). I don't know if they were the biggest part of the problem or even in the top 10-20 reasons they lost, but they were clearly a factor.

I usually say that when a team loses this bad (and they were clearly outclassed in the second half), it is a teamwide failure. That is players and coaches. McDaniels and Weis had games where they crapped the bed too. No OC or DC is immune to a bad game.

Which drive failed because of playcalling with no execution problem?

 

[reflexblue]

In the good old days of the early to mid-2000nds i thought as long as were close at half time will win because of adjustments, and we usually did. I seemed like in the first half we would feel a team out to see what they were going to do than adjust to it.

 

[emoney_33]

Which drive failed because of playcalling with no execution problem?

Not a single poster on this board has claimed there were NO execution problems. Bad playcalling and bad execution are NOT mutually exclusive.

 

[Rob0729]

Which drive failed because of playcalling with no execution problem?

Which drive failed because of a false start or an illegal shift? TBC's illegal hit out of bounds didn't lead to the Jets scoring, but it certainly helped them scoring on that drive.

Poor play calls contributed to bad situations that probably ended drives. The calls themselves might not have ended any particular drive, but they were factors in putting the team in 3rd and long at points.

Again, I didn't say the play calling was a primary factor in the loss, but it was certainly was a contributing factor. If you can't see that, I guess we don't have much to talk about. The play calling wasn't horrible on either side of the ball, but there were some very questionable decisions during the course of the game. I do blame the defensive braintrust more than the offense because they did leave Butler alone on an island on a lot of plays eventhough they knew the Jets were picking on him.

 

[reflexblue]

Bring back Dean Pee's

 

[letekro]

I agree that Brady played a poor game.

I still believe that better coaching would have helped produce better performance. The offense hasn't really seemed in synch under O'brien, no matter how much talent is added.

You do realize that BOB's tenure has coincided with Post-Injury Tom Brady, don't you? Too small of a sample size this year, but last year, Tommy's accuracy and "grace under fire" (i.e., his willingness to stand in to the last second for someone to come open) were simply not at the same level as Pre-Injury Tom Brady. Maybe you're focusing on the wrong cause?

 

[Deus Irae]

Which drive failed because of a false start or an illegal shift? TBC's illegal hit out of bounds didn't lead to the Jets scoring, but it certainly helped them scoring on that drive.

Poor play calls contributed to bad situations that probably ended drives. The calls themselves might not have ended any particular drive, but they were factors in putting the team in 3rd and long at points.

Again, I didn't say the play calling was a primary factor in the loss, but it was certainly was a contributing factor. If you can't see that, I guess we don't have much to talk about. The play calling wasn't horrible on either side of the ball, but there were some very questionable decisions during the course of the game. I do blame the defensive braintrust more than the offense because they did leave Butler alone on an island on a lot of plays eventhough they knew the Jets were picking on him.

Sticking with the offense for now...

1.) First drive: The first Moss INT occured after the team had already gotten 2 first downs during the drive. First down was a run which was following 4 straight passes. Second down was a pass to Welker which didn't work out (-2 yards). The third down was the pass that Cromartie picked off.

2.) Second drive: The Gronk miss was on 2nd down, so the notion that it was playcalling that put the team in 3rd and long there doesn't work.

3.) Third drive: Brady threw deep to Moss on 2nd and 3.

4.) Fourth drive: The Crumpler miss was on 1st down, so the notion that it was playcalling that put the team in 3rd and long there doesn't work.

5.) Fifth drive: Brady was sacked on first and 10.

There's no drive that failed because of the playcalling, and no drive was in third and long because of lousy playcalling.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Not a single poster on this board has claimed there were NO execution problems. Bad playcalling and bad execution are NOT mutually exclusive.

Exactly. To the contrary, they usually exacerbate each other. Put players in bad situations, and they're more likely to fail at what you've asked them to do. And when players fail to execute, you become limited in the options available for playcalling. So I look at them as being deeply linked: if a group of players who are talented enough to succeed consistently fail in certain situations, then the blame falls on the playcallers for failing to adapt.

 

[Oswlek]

Which drive failed because of playcalling with no execution problem?

Other than a kneeldown call or a FB dive on 3rd and 17, how would we ever know? It could be the worst playcall ever, but you'd still be able to say "if that guy blocked better or the throw was better or...."

Somehow the players are the best executing group in the league in the first 30 minutes but in the bottom 3rd in the latter 30 minutes. How do you explain such a definitive trend? Pure execution issues would be more even distributed.

 

[Deus Irae]

Other than a kneeldown call or a FB dive on 3rd and 17, how would we ever know? It could be the worst playcall ever, but you'd still be able to say "if that guy blocked better or the throw was better or...."

Somehow the players are the best executing group in the league in the first 30 minutes but in the bottom 3rd in the latter 30 minutes. How do you explain such a definitive trend? Pure execution issues would be more even distributed.

The players weren't the best executing group in the league in the first half.

Moss dropped TD pass
Special teams tabbed for delay of game penalty
Gostkowski missed a field goal that was well within his range
Arrington interfered with a fair catch
TBC with an unnecessary roughness penalty
Tate's illegal formation penalty nullified a 38 yard run

 

[Coach42]

Plenty of blame to go all around really. Its really hard to tell if a poor play is called if a team can't execute it. For instance you may have seen a WR/TE wide open but if he ran the wrong route to get there.....or the same WR/TE may looked doubled over the middle but should be somewhere else etc. etc. Really its just nitpicking we saw bad football in the second half all the way around.

I thought what Wilfork said on the radio was interesting because I thought I saw the same thing and he confirmed it. The Pats have trouble against the run when they are in their sub packages.

 

[BPF]

Defense:

Gerard Warren - liability against the run
Wilfork - All world
Wright - liability against the run

Ninkovich - Liability against the run, not much better against the pass
Spikes - rookie having rookie issues
Guyton - major liability against the run
Mayo - quality player
TBC - liability against the run

McCourty - Rookie succeptible to double moves
Butler - Second year DB with a confidence problem an overreliance on his talent
Meriweather - Veteran who's struggled enough to lose his starting job
Chung - Second year player who's a liability against the pass
Sanders - solid, but nothing more


Offense:

Moss - Top tier talent who's lost about 2 steps
Welker - Top tier talent who's coming back from ACL surgery and took a shot to the head
Tate - Second year man who got almost no playing time as a rookie
Edelman - sub for Welker and oft-injured himself

Crumpler - Mauler, not a pass catcher at this stage of his career
Gronkowski/Hernandez - Rookies who still have things to learn

Light - Solid Left tackle
Connolly - Backup forced to start
Koppen - Oft-injured player who seems to have declined a bit due to those injuries
Neal - Oft-injured player (he missed time yesterday, as a matter of fact)
Vollmer - Second year player still making mistakes

Taylor - Talented, but aging and oft-injured.
Morris - Aging and oft-injured, he doubles as the fullback
BJGE - JAG

Brady - All world, but needs to break a bad habit he picked up last year


Far too many people are laying the blame on the coordinators. Well, players were getting open in the passing game, and the running game wasn't able to open holes. The defense is loaded with players who, for one reason or another, aren't really ready to be starting on top defenses.


It's a personnel/talent/experience/execution problem for the most part. Blaming the coordinators is a cop out.

Your grades are a little too harsh on the players, no player is perfect on this team or any other team. It's about playing together as a team and 11 players working as a unit. Every player makes mistakes, it's about working as a team to overcome them.

All of the theories about coaching being an issue are amusing to read and fill blogs and papers on slow Tuesdays but the real issue in the 2nd half is young players not knowing how to win. What I mean by that is that in every game every player must be competing all game long. All they need to do is make one more play here or there, they are not getting blown out or rolled over by any team. Making one more play is key. You can let a team drive on you but keep them from getting to the end zone by making the key 3rd down stop. The Pats drove on the Jets all game long but they buckled down and made stops inside the red zone, 2 more plays than the Pats D made and they won by 2 TD's -- wow what a coincidence!! In the NFL the difference between winning and losing is one key play here or there and at this point the Pats are not doing that. I do feel that the influx of youth will pay off, hopefully by midseason. I do like the young talent on D, I'm encouraged that the players are close to making plays and they just need to get over the hump.

 

[mgteich]

I would agree if the issue was simply weaker performance on the part of Brady. If that were the case, the issues on the road and in the second half would have been reduced as we went from the beginning of last season to the end of last season to the beginning of this season.

You do realize that BOB's tenure has coincided with Post-Injury Tom Brady, don't you? Too small of a sample size this year, but last year, Tommy's accuracy and "grace under fire" (i.e., his willingness to stand in to the last second for someone to come open) were simply not at the same level as Pre-Injury Tom Brady. Maybe you're focusing on the wrong cause?

 

[Oswlek]

The players weren't the best executing group in the league in the first half.

Moss dropped TD pass
Special teams tabbed for delay of game penalty
Gostkowski missed a field goal that was well within his range
Arrington interfered with a fair catch
TBC with an unnecessary roughness penalty
Tate's illegal formation penalty nullified a 38 yard run

NE had the highest first half point differential in the league in 2009. How do you execute better than that?

 

[Deus Irae]

NE had the highest first half point differential in the league in 2009. How do you execute better than that?

1.) This has nothing to do with the first half failure of execution in the Jets game this week, which is what I was pointing out in response to your post.

2.) Take away the Titans game (45 points)....

 

[Oswlek]

1.) This has nothing to do with the first half failure of execution in the Jets game this week, which is what I was pointing out in response to your post.

2.) Take away the Titans game (45 points)....

1) Everything can be isolated and looked at as a unique occurance. But trends exist for a reason.

2) ...And the team is still in the top 5 for first half and bottom 3rd for second half.

 

[IllegalContact]

It's overly simplistic to blame any one factor

Who's fault is it that the pats have noone to replace their injured 34 year old 3rd down back?

Who's fault was it when Brady was forcing passes?

Who's fault is it that the entire teams lacks the zeal for the game it once had?

Who's fault is it that the entire teams has the exact same 2nd half problem that it did last year?

There's enough blame for everyone from the 53rd player all the way up bob kraft himself .... Would he have ever bought the team if 30 years ago the sullivans did not allow the fans to stay standing during the game?

This ain't the same team anymore

 

[Rob0729]

4.) Fourth drive: The Crumpler miss was on 1st down, so the notion that it was playcalling that put the team in 3rd and long there doesn't work.

The fact on third and seven on that drive instead of trying to get a first down and having Brady hucking deep down the field to Moss was a good call? Like I say, when you need seven yards to keep the drive alive in a game you are only down by seven, throw it for forty on third down. This drive is a clear case where a bad play call ended the drive. This is typical of Brady/O'Brien. There doesn't seem to be much patience when the Pats are down late in the game.

1. New England Patriots at 13:24
2. 1-10-NE 11 (13:24) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete short right to 81-R.Moss. PENALTY on NYJ-31-A.Cromartie, Illegal Contact, 5 yards, enforced at NE 11 - No Play.
3. 1-10-NE 16 (13:20) 33-K.Faulk left end to NE 24 for 8 yards (30-D.Coleman). NE-33-K.Faulk was injured during the play.
4. 2-2-NE 24 (12:51) 42-B.Green-Ellis left guard to NE 26 for 2 yards (91-S.Pouha).
5. 1-10-NE 26 (12:12) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to 82-A.Crumpler.
6. 2-10-NE 26 (12:07) 42-B.Green-Ellis right guard to NE 29 for 3 yards (70-M.Devito, 92-S.Ellis).
7. 3-7-NE 29 (11:23) (Shotgun) 12-T.Brady pass incomplete deep right to 81-R.Moss.
8. 4-7-NE 29 (11:17) 14-Z.Mesko punts 38 yards to NYJ 33, Center-47-J.Ingram. 36-J.Leonhard to NYJ 37 for 4 yards (18-M.Slater).

There's no drive that failed because of the playcalling, and no drive was in third and long because of lousy playcalling.

Just gave you an example of lousy play calling ending a drive. I question the BJGE run on second down in that drive. Should have been first down. I personally hate the throw on first down and if it is incomplete, run on second down. But that is just me.