Stop blaming the coordinators

[Deus Irae]

1) O'Brien was here last year. And while we don't have Dean Pees to kick around any more, we still have Bill, Pepper & Matt Patricia.

2) The players did indeed fail yesterday; but so did the coaches, starting with Bill - again.

As you noted, Pees is no longer with the team. The coordinators are not the same. The players are not the same. This angst is all over one game against a team that most of this board spent an entire week underestimating. The attempt to blame the coaches is nothing more than a pathetic job of scapegoating.

 

[WhiteWesWelker88]

LOL, I guess Brady is too dumb now to be able to audible, he can no longer tell what the coverage is anymore. Did you listen to Brady, he said they had a good game plan, the players just didn't perform.

Way to dodge my criticism old timer.......


do not hide behind that BS audible line........ If we implemented the proper offensive strategy (use the TE's more) [ and not throw to Randy b/c Revis is out..]

it would have gone in our favor if we kept spreading the ball around like we did in the first half.

not the coaching.... what a crock!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Much as Box and others tried to revisit the tape - albeit broadcast and not coaches tape - Reiss has a student intern who does that this season. Some of you might benefit from following his dissection of what went wrong, even in the first half... Which by the way impacted the second half because they were only up 4 heading into the locker room although Tom personally had a 126 passer rating at the time. For that to happen his targets have to catch the ball the vast majority of the time, they have to make tough catches, they have to not put him in third and long consistently, and they have to not make stupid mistakes that negate the rare long yardage play on the ground... Yet even though they didn't even play that consistently in the first half, they managed to put 14 on the board. Sadly they left several more on the field, and mistakes made by the defense allowed the JETS an opportunity to make a long field goal as time ran out...which they did.

Then in the second half a JETS team who believed they were still in it after withstanding our best effort out executed them consistently in the second half. There was nothing wrong with the scheme, it was the execution of it or lack thereof that resulted in a tale of two halves.

If you talk to former QB's they will tell you that the best of them don't make many nearly the mistakes their targets do, despite what color commentators and analysts often cavalierly claim. Brady is remarkably accurate and he's been especially so this pre season and in the first six quarters. He doesn't just lose it... He's throwing to a spot based on the coverage pre or post snap, and it's the receivers job to be in it. Doesn't always work out, even with the consistently elite receivers. It's often called miscommunication, which is what Moss referred to the first pick as, although I recall Brady saying more than once you cannot overthrow Randy Moss. The second I believe he blamed on other guys being paid to and making plays, too. Brady made a terriffic play early on to avoid a sack or worse and delivered a first down throw. The blindside stripsack in the 4th quarter was all Light. Nothing any QB can do about that one. Ditto a coordinator... That's failure to execute.

New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Deus Irae]

Bullsheet. There is a definite history of the problem that you refuse to see, for whatever reason.

This is, without a doubt, a major coaching problem. Are the players fault free? Hell no. But they are only as good as what the plays are that they are being given to run, and it is as obvious as sheet on a shingle that the Pats coaching staff has been asleep at the wheel for some time now in the second halves of games.

Even in victory, games that were well in hand at the end of the first half became seat squirmers in the second half. Why would that be Mister Deus, all execution?

If so, we must have more players than any other team in the NFL that only play one half of football. Must be a contract thing, right? Something that their agents and BB worked out? Give us more money and we will play hard for both halves........

You need a good dose of reality.

Do me a favor, there are 115 other posters in this forum that voted, in the poll, that they believe our coaches fail to adjust...Go talk to the other 115 and see what they think.

I spent much of 2009 bashing the hell out of the Patriots, because I felt it was warranted. The notion that there is something problematic in the recent history of this team that I refuse to see is simply out of line with the positions I've taken since the departure of McDaniels and Pioli.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't see any adjustments. From what's been said the Jets made adjustments to tighten up coverage over the middle where they were getting burned in the 1st half. That was an obviousl adjustments. Where was our counter? Throw it up to Moss? Or did Brady say screw that adjustment I'm throwing it up to Moss. The point is, the OC should have anticipated that the Jets would adjust coverages and have a set of plays for that. Either they didn't or Brady ignores his coaches.

The counter was throwing to Moss in single coverage, as well as other receivers.
If the adjustment is to get Moss deep against man coverage on 3rd and 13, and Brady makes a good throw, yet Moss doesnt go after the ball 100%, how is that the lack of an adjustment?
You are pointing to poor execution of the adjustment as the lack of adjustment.

Most teams basically script the first few series in the first half. Are you saying the Pats don't have a primary receiver in their play calls and Brady just says go out for a pass and I'll figure it out?

Brady has progressions, and those progressions include throwing to WRs that covered one on one. Always have, always will. They also include exploiting LB coverage vs TE and WR in zones.
In the first half they exploited the LB all the way to a 120+ QB rating.
When the Jets adjusted, they left the corners one on one, we attacked it correctly but did not execute. Its really plain as day.

 

[skinnydog]

I do recall Brady locking on Moss and Welker last year, and I think we saw that on Sunday, with regards to Moss.
That's on Brady, though, not the coordinators.

However, if Moss is covered, Brady is under no command to throw it to him anyway, at least to my knowledge, and I've never heard anyone say differently, be it online, on the radio, on television, in print or in person.

I don't understand the desire to defend the coordinators. The players had a bad game, most of them. Butler was awful. Mayo is invisible. The Brady decision to throw a jump ball to a tightly covered ball to Moss on 2nd and 3 at the start for the 4th quarter was the single worst play fo the game. it was awful. Pathetic. It was unlike the Brady of old. The old Brady was willing to simply throw the ball out of bounds and live to try again. Now he seems to think its all up to him. Part of that is the OCs fault. I think he is given too much leeway. I know he likes to throw the ball and loves the shot gun, but that might not be the best option. The OC needs to reign that in. I would have loved to see 2 runs to make 3 yards. Give the D a rest and let the O line smack the Jets instead of vice versa in pass blocking. So Brady wants to throw all the time? Too bad he's not the OC and the OC needs OC needs to dictate the offense.

Because the players had bad games does not meant the coordinators did not have games as bad or worse.

 

[skinnydog]

The counter was throwing to Moss in single coverage, as well as other receivers.
If the adjustment is to get Moss deep against man coverage on 3rd and 13, and Brady makes a good throw, yet Moss doesnt go after the ball 100%, how is that the lack of an adjustment?
You are pointing to poor execution of the adjustment as the lack of adjustment.


Brady has progressions, and those progressions include throwing to WRs that covered one on one. Always have, always will. They also include exploiting LB coverage vs TE and WR in zones.
In the first half they exploited the LB all the way to a 120+ QB rating.
When the Jets adjusted, they left the corners one on one, we attacked it correctly but did not execute. Its really plain as day.

I said above the Brady throw that was intercepted at the 3 wasn't so bad. Like a good punt is the D hadn't coughed it up in the next series.

No it wasn't plain as day. It wasn;t strictly one on one as there was safety help on the 2nd interception. It's second and 3 why call a pass at all? Where was Fred Taylor?

 

[RDS11]

Go look at where the Pats finished in scoring defense each of the last 5 years and report back with your findings before again posting such nonsense.

Team are not built overnight. I'm talking in regards to 2010, and what was done in building that team over the last few years. So far, the Pats are 26 in scoring defense, and that was by facing 2 below average offenses.

 

[D-Money]

I can only imagine the goober is licking his chopsThats Peyton Manning.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The counter was throwing to Moss in single coverage, as well as other receivers.
If the adjustment is to get Moss deep against man coverage on 3rd and 13, and Brady makes a good throw, yet Moss doesnt go after the ball 100%, how is that the lack of an adjustment?
You are pointing to poor execution of the adjustment as the lack of adjustment.


Brady has progressions, and those progressions include throwing to WRs that covered one on one. Always have, always will. They also include exploiting LB coverage vs TE and WR in zones.
In the first half they exploited the LB all the way to a 120+ QB rating.
When the Jets adjusted, they left the corners one on one, we attacked it correctly but did not execute. Its really plain as day.

This is basically what Bill said on WEEI today. Brady was following his progressions and reading coverage and acting accordingly. Same thing he did on the EZ bobble and the one handed TD grab. Thing is if that guy is making the play on his end only 20% of the time in game situations (although the game planning is based on he makes it 90% of the time in practice...) you got a problem, or a conundrum as the case may be.

 

[skinnydog]

This is basically what Bill said on WEEI today. Brady was following his progressions and reading coverage and acting accordingly. Same thing he did on the EZ bobble and the one handed TD grab. Thing is if that guy is making the play on his end only 20% of the time in game situations (although the game planning is based on he makes it 90% of the time in practice...) you got a problem, or a conundrum as the case may be.

Bill says that stuff all the time. We didn't block good enough of tackle good enough or execute properly.

 

[skinnydog]

The Pats have been getting worse as the game goes on for some time now. It's just a simple fact. Part and a big part is coaching. I've been hoping it would change and I'm still waiting.

 

[IcyPatriot]

It's Ernie Adam's fault ...



Nobody has blamed his yet ...

lay off the halftime junk food Ernie ... makes the brain tired and sleepy.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't understand the desire to defend the coordinators. The players had a bad game, most of them. Butler was awful. Mayo is invisible. The Brady decision to throw a jump ball to a tightly covered ball to Moss on 2nd and 3 at the start for the 4th quarter was the single worst play fo the game. it was awful. Pathetic. It was unlike the Brady of old. The old Brady was willing to simply throw the ball out of bounds and live to try again. Now he seems to think its all up to him. Part of that is the OCs fault. I think he is given too much leeway. I know he likes to throw the ball and loves the shot gun, but that might not be the best option. The OC needs to reign that in. I would have loved to see 2 runs to make 3 yards. Give the D a rest and let the O line smack the Jets instead of vice versa in pass blocking. So Brady wants to throw all the time? Too bad he's not the OC and the OC needs OC needs to dictate the offense.

Because the players had bad games does not meant the coordinators did not have games as bad or worse.

I don't join herds just to join the herd. The coordinators were not the problem.

And your run argument has already been discussed. There was running, and it wasn't just on specific downs, but the Jets are tough against the run.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The Pats have been getting worse as the game goes on for some time now. It's just a simple fact. Part and a big part is coaching. I've been hoping it would change and I'm still waiting.

Don't bother.

You're 15 pages in now in this thread, the guy Deus Irae keeps repeating the same arguments over and over regardless of what you say.

He's basically the biggest troll ever.

I doubt he even believes half of what he types. He's probably employed by the Pats PR department to defend them on message boards.

 

[skinnydog]

I don't join herds just to join the herd. The coordinators were not the problem.

And your run argument has already been discussed. There was running, and it wasn't just on specific downs, but the Jets are tough against the run.

I really don't find myself in a herd often and have not liked the coordinators in a while. This is not a new revelation for me. My point has not been dealt with. Coordinators make calls. Abandoning the run against even a good run defense is dumb. But you have to pick and chose your chances. I'm done with the example but the second and 3 was a perfect time to throw in a run. That's a coaching decision, not an execution thing.

But I give up, you're right, the game plan in the second half was fantastic. I don't see how it went wrong. Brady now sucks in the second half of games for the last year because, well, I guess that's just the way it is. The plays were there all over the field and we were so close. Just a little more execution would have made all the difference.

 

[D-Money]

Brady has put himself to a high standard that its weird seeing him suck like he did in that second half.He played awful in that playoff game against the ravens last year and his season was up and down.I am sure he will rebound against the bills but i wanna see him play well against these top teams with good defenses.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's Ernie Adam's fault ...



Nobody has blamed his yet ...

lay off the halftime junk food Ernie ... makes the brain tired and sleepy.

We finally found our answer, Ernies washed up :lol2:

 

[Ring 6]

I do think that there is a difference between have a coordinator and not ahving one, and the difference is much more than a title.

IMHO, having a Weiss and Crennel whose job was to coordinate and be responsible for the offense and defense really helped. The responsibilities you mention were still split among the coaching staff. It is indeed a matter of management structure. How many folks should be considered to working directly for Belichick? How many folks should he have to be dealing with on a regular basis. I maintain that it helps to have an OC, a DC, a head of personnel, an assistant HC and an assistant to the HC. That's more than plenty direct reports.

What Belichick has done is to remove the top management layer. There is simply Belichick and all the coaches and front office staff. IMHO, this does indeed remove a lot of potential controversy. There are no arguments. There is no power sharing at all. It is indeed a personal preference of mine and a personal opinion. I think that the earlier management structure worked better, and is a better structure.

Again you are assuming you know what the inner workings of the management are. You are basing this on the position coaches 'reporting to' the coordinators, and I have never seen evidence of that.
The example I posted is one possibility another, which we have seen before is the coach is the coordinator without the title.
To assume that the coordinators were 'Assistant Managers' and now no one has that job is assuming 2 things that are simply guesses.
You are also assuming to know that there used to be internal debate and argument and now there isnt, again based solely on a guess.

 

[mgteich]

We cannot know the inner workings of the patriots. We can only look at the structure and results, and then make conclusions.

IMHO, when Charlie and Romeo were here, there was no question that they were in charge of the offense and defense. Of course, Belichick had final say on their game plans and direction. And yes, that is simply my opinion based on my analysis.

You make the assumption that because there is no one with the title of coordinator that surely there is someone other than Belichick performing the role. I make no such asssumption. I simply accept that Belichick has decided that he doesn't need coordinators to oversee the offense and defensive. As you said in a different post, since there are no coordinators, then the responsibilities are spread out among several coaches. I agree with that position. However, we differ in our conclusion. My conclusion is that the defacto DC is Belichick. He all but said so in the offseason when he indicated that it would be he personally running the defense.

The offense has a different issue. Since Charlie left, I think the OC has been Tom Brady and whoever he worked with. Tom worked very well with Josh, and Josh did fine.

Again you are assuming you know what the inner workings of the management are. You are basing this on the position coaches 'reporting to' the coordinators, and I have never seen evidence of that.
The example I posted is one possibility another, which we have seen before is the coach is the coordinator without the title.
To assume that the coordinators were 'Assistant Managers' and now no one has that job is assuming 2 things that are simply guesses.
You are also assuming to know that there used to be internal debate and argument and now there isnt, again based solely on a guess.