Stop blaming the coordinators

[mgcolby]

Wasnt Mike Martz available?Look at wat he is doing with the bears.Does BB have a big ego working with a guy like Martz.

The guy is so good that every year a new team hire's him...right after he is fired. I don't think it is BB's ego that is in question...

 

[mb6592]

Defense:

Gerard Warren - liability against the run
Wilfork - All world
Wright - liability against the run

Ninkovich - Liability against the run, not much better against the pass
Spikes - rookie having rookie issues
Guyton - major liability against the run
Mayo - quality player
TBC - liability against the run

McCourty - Rookie succeptible to double moves
Butler - Second year DB with a confidence problem an overreliance on his talent
Meriweather - Veteran who's struggled enough to lose his starting job
Chung - Second year player who's a liability against the pass
Sanders - solid, but nothing more


Offense:

Moss - Top tier talent who's lost about 2 steps
Welker - Top tier talent who's coming back from ACL surgery and took a shot to the head
Tate - Second year man who got almost no playing time as a rookie
Edelman - sub for Welker and oft-injured himself

Crumpler - Mauler, not a pass catcher at this stage of his career
Gronkowski/Hernandez - Rookies who still have things to learn

Light - Solid Left tackle
Connolly - Backup forced to start
Koppen - Oft-injured player who seems to have declined a bit due to those injuries
Neal - Oft-injured player (he missed time yesterday, as a matter of fact)
Vollmer - Second year player still making mistakes

Taylor - Talented, but aging and oft-injured.
Morris - Aging and oft-injured, he doubles as the fullback
BJGE - JAG

Brady - All world, but needs to break a bad habit he picked up last year


Far too many people are laying the blame on the coordinators. Well, players were getting open in the passing game, and the running game wasn't able to open holes. The defense is loaded with players who, for one reason or another, aren't really ready to be starting on top defenses.


It's a personnel/talent/experience/execution problem for the most part. Blaming the coordinators is a cop out.

Jay Greenberg, NY Post, "The Patriots cannot dial back the clock or, more to the point, hurry it through what clearly is a rebuild. The Patriots have at one cornerback spot, second-year Darius Butler from UConn, who, already burned for a touchdown and a two-point conversion on fades to Braylon Edwards, was caught hanging on to Edwards as pathetically as a Patriots' fan to arrogance during the Jets' putaway touchdown drive. The Patriots have on the other corner Rutgers rookie Devin McCourty, undressed by Jerricho Cotchery for the Jets' go-ahead score. They have a pass rush that is a shadow of its former self, a linebacking corps that couldn't cover Dustin Keller and, beyond Jerod Mayo, is a shadow of a shadow of its former self."

 

[mb6592]

It would suggest any number of things.



It wasn't coaching when the defense blew plays that they knew were coming (verified by Wilfork).

It wasn't coaching when the QB was targeting a covered Moss rather than other receivers who were open (verified by Curran, Ordway, DeOssie and Smerlas).

It wasn't coaching when Brady overthrew Moss and Cromartie made the pick at the 3 yard line.

It wasn't coaching when Brady underthrew Gronkowski on a pass that would have led to a first down.

It wasn't coaching when Brady threw to a covered Moss, who tipped the ball up for Poole to intercept.

It wasn't coaching when Butler grabbed the receiver when he had position on the sidelines, and ended up getting flagged for PI.

It wasn't coaching when Butler had position on the throw to the endzone but field to jump for the ball.

It wasn't coaching when Light was beaten by Taylor for the strip sack that ended the game.

Too many Brady's in your spot on analysis. Too many Brady's in alot of Patriots' meltdowns lately - what's up with that?

 

[Deus Irae]

If people want to find something to blame the coaches for, I've got just the thing:

This afternoon, Taylor said that he experienced no health-related issues in the game.

His limited time was a result of a rotation as well as game situations that called for a change-up (e.g. two-minute offense).

Following up on status of Fred Taylor - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

This team has Taylor in a series by series rotation with BJGE while having traded Maroney away. If you want to blame that on coaching rather than the GM, go for it. Just figure out whether it's BB or O'Brien making that decision.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with any position I've taken about the talent of the current team. In fact, I'm sure it has nothing to do with it.

It has EVERYTHING to do with this thread, because you made this thread about supposed lack of talent or experience or whatever other lame excuse to deflect blame off the play calling.

I pointed out that the 2001, 2003, and 2004 championship teams had major injury issues, and major issues talent-wise with new players, rookies, retreads, and castoffs, and one of the worst rushing attacks and receiving groups in recent history.

This team has played two games, and was playing "eat the clock" in the first one after amassing a huge lead. To claim that it's got a CLEAR problem in the 2nd half of games is asinine.

This team has CLEAR 2nd half problems going back at least 18 games, which is what I said. In 2009, 2/3 of the total points were scored in the 1st half, only 1/3 of the points were scored in the 2nd half. This is a far departure from the near 50/50 split we had for almost 10 years prior. Such a significant difference between halves, has nothing to do with talent, since the exact same talent is doing well in the 1st half of games.

I never said 2 games, you brought that up because you're in a losing argument and now making up things I didn't say.

This thread is completely ridiculous.

 

[WhiteWesWelker88]

smells like B O...... I hate B O


Bill O'Brien - You stink!!!


Fact is he is a college coordinator..... done nothing for the Pats.

Cant blame the Dean for this **** show...

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

This is what happens to teams that have a few years of bad drafts. They become mediocre, and that's what the Pats are at this point.

 

[WhiteWesWelker88]

This is what happens to teams that have a few years of bad drafts. They become mediocre, and that's what the Pats are at this point.

no it is called every good coordinator we have had gets head jobs elsewhere.....


get a clue. ^:bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

It has EVERYTHING to do with this thread, because you made this thread about supposed lack of talent or experience or whatever other lame excuse to deflect blame off the play calling.

I pointed out that the 2001, 2003, and 2004 championship teams had major injury issues, and major issues talent-wise with new players, rookies, retreads, and castoffs, and one of the worst rushing attacks and receiving groups in recent history.

Talent isn't the same as experience, though, and it certainly doesn't equate to overall team greatness. You were conflating different things. This can be seen in every sport, and every league. The Red Sox and Yankees are reliably the two most talented team in MLB, almost every year, yet they don't win every World Series. Many claim that the Rams were more talented than the Patriots in 2001, yet that Patriots team won the Super Bowl. Teams are a combination of talent, effort, intelligence, experience, luck, etc..., not just coaching, and this Patriots team is deficient in a lot of those.

By the way, that 2001 team started off 1-3, including a 20 point drubbing at the hands of the Dolphins.

This team has CLEAR 2nd half problems going back at least 18 games, which is what I said. In 2009, 2/3 of the total points were scored in the 1st half, only 1/3 of the points were scored in the 2nd half. This is a far departure from the near 50/50 split we had for almost 10 years prior.

Well, now you're talking about last year's team. The problem with attempting to do that while pissing and moaning about coaching adjustments, of course, is that the defensive coordinator was not the same person, nevermind the personnel.

This thread is completely ridiculous.

The thread's fine. Your posts in it, perhaps.... not so much.

 

[Deus Irae]

I never said 2 games, you brought that up because you're in a losing argument and now making up things I didn't say.

This team has played 2 games. That's it. I didn't make up anything. It's not my fault that you can't be bothered to see reason in this thread.

 

[ausbacker]

Sooner or later Deus Irae is going to realize outcomes are the meshing of coaching, personnel and execution all the time. That extends to winning results as well as losing results.

Naturally, that answer is to simplistic.

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

no it is called every good coordinator we have had gets head jobs elsewhere.....


get a clue. ^:bricks:

BS, coordinators don't play the damn game.

 

[The Dynasty]

Why were the Pats pretty successful in the 1st half and not the 2nd half? The same players played in the 2nd half that did in the 1st half. I think a lot of struggles were because of the coordinators/coach who were calling the plays and schemes.

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

Why were the Pats pretty successful in the 1st half and not the 2nd half? The same players played in the 2nd half that did in the 1st half. I think a lot of struggles were because of the coordinators/coach who were calling the plays and schemes.

I'm sure Brady kept throwing those INT's because the coordinators told him to. Brady has the final say on any play at the line of scrimmage. Brady is the one who is at fault for all the ill advised passes that were made.

 

[WhiteWesWelker88]

BS, coordinators don't play the damn game.

yeah you are right.....



they are just the tacticians and strategists for implementing schemes


“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.

Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”

 

[mb6592]

I think we'll see improvement. Rookies will adapt to the pace of the game, and they'll keep learning tricks of the trade, for example. Mankins returning would help.

However, this is a very young and inexperienced team facing a brutal overall schedule. When the defense has games like it did yesterday, this team is going to get beaten, unless the offense can get to 2007 levels consistently. And, despite the cries of some people here, this offense hasn't yet demonstrated anything approaching that sort of capability, regardless of coordinators, adjustments, or anything else.

I can deal with a young defense going through growing pains, but this offense is loaded with talent. The offense has let this team down too much lately, and Brady in particular. Quick, anyone remember the last, late 2nd half, come from behind win for the Pats? "Brady time" has encompassed, lately, only the first half of a football game.

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

yeah you are right.....



they are just the tacticians and strategists for implementing schemes


“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.

Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”

LOL, I guess Brady is too dumb now to be able to audible, he can no longer tell what the coverage is anymore. Did you listen to Brady, he said they had a good game plan, the players just didn't perform.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bill Belichick, Patriots Head Coach on WEEI


Listening from about the 9 minute mark until just before the 11 minute mark would, perhaps, be enlightening for some...

I recommend the entire interview, but that portion is pretty much on point.

 

[The Dynasty]

I'm sure Brady kept throwing those INT's because the coordinators told him to. Brady has the final say on any play at the line of scrimmage. Brady is the one who is at fault for all the ill advised passes that were made.

What was wrong with the INTs? The first one was a 3rd and 13 and he was going to give Moss a chance to make a play, unfortunately he under threw Moss. The 2nd pick was just a unlucky bounce for the Pats, nothing you can really do.

The play calling was considerably different in the 1st half than in the 2nd half. They didnt run the ball at all in the 2nd half. Although it wasnt that effective, it still kept the defense honest and helped set up the pass. The Jets adjusted in the 2nd half by blitzing less and taking away the middle of the field, the Pats never adjusted to that. Brady doesnt call the plays. How can you completely throw him under the bus?

 

[skinnydog]

It would suggest any number of things.

It wasn't coaching when the defense blew plays that they knew were coming (verified by Wilfork).

Fine, that's the players or possibly the coaches if the scheme used to prepare for those plays was lousy

It wasn't coaching when the QB was targeting a covered Moss rather than other receivers who were open (verified by Curran, Ordway, DeOssie and Smerlas).

Why isn't that coaching? I think a Weiss would have had the nads to chew out Brady if he was targeting a covered receiver including Moss. Do you thin O'Brien does??

It wasn't coaching when Brady overthrew Moss and Cromartie made the pick at the 3 yard line.

That was a throw away and would have acted like a good punt if the D hadn't folded and given up a 97 yard drive.

It wasn't coaching when Brady underthrew Gronkowski on a pass that would have led to a first down.

Very bad pass.

It wasn't coaching when Brady threw to a covered Moss, who tipped the ball up for Poole to intercept.

I was screaming for a run. Why the need to pass at all there? Did Brady check out of a run call to pass? It was 2nd and 3 to start the 4th quarter and they're only down 7. I wanted 2 runs. As above, the OC should have some control and be on Brady for forcing it to Moss. Tom Brady is not the OC and it is the fault of the coaching staff it they let him act like one.

It wasn't coaching when Butler grabbed the receiver when he had position on the sidelines, and ended up getting flagged for PI.

Probably right, but why isn't Butler getting help over the top?

It wasn't coaching when Butler had position on the throw to the endzone but field to jump for the ball.

Bad play by Butler. Butler is not that good, but the Pats have won with Troy Brown in coverage in the past.

It wasn't coaching when Light was beaten by Taylor for the strip sack that ended the game. Bad play by the O line.