Stop blaming the coordinators

[letekro]

Shameless pimping: check out the latest PatsCast for an explanation. Basically, Belichick draws up the initial gameplan, which kicks ass, then it's the coordinators' job to make halftime adjustments and manage the game on the fly once it goes off script. Bill O'Brien hasn't demonstrated much ability to do that.

Since you can make things up to make your point, let me make something up to prove my point. One of the Jets adjustments was to bring the safeties up to take away the underneath routes. BOB's adjustment was to send Gronkowski down the seam, getting him on an undersized corner. If Brady throws a decent ball, it's a 40 yard gain and it changes the game; if he throws a perfect ball, it's a 70 yd gain, BOB is hailed for a great play call, and the Patriots probably go on to win the game. As it was, Brady throws a terrible ball, the Pats have to punt, BOB is an idiot and the Pats lose.

 

[JackBauer]

Since you can make things up to make your point, let me make something up to prove my point. One of the Jets adjustments was to bring the safeties up to take away the underneath routes. BOB's adjustment was to send Gronkowski down the seam, getting him on an undersized corner. If Brady throws a decent ball, it's a 40 yard gain and it changes the game; if he throws a perfect ball, it's a 70 yd gain, BOB is hailed for a great play call, and the Patriots probably go on to win the game. As it was, Brady throws a terrible ball, the Pats have to punt, BOB is an idiot and the Pats lose.

That would make sense if the entire outcome of the game hinged on one offensive play. Which it obviously didn't.

 

[emoney_33]

That's what they said about Josh in 2005 and 2006. And even to a lesser extent in 2008 once they convinced themselves Cassel was certainly a relevation and therefore no excuse for McDaniel's crappy management of that offense.

The JETS fans have been blaming Shotty Jr. for every failure they've endured through three QB changes and three HC defensive scheme and system changes to date. It's what fans do because it's easy.

McDaniels earned his OC title and then HC job. O'Brien hasn't even been able to earn the OC title yet.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Me too, infact, I have done that consistently for at least the last 15 games, or more.

For whatever reason, this team just does not utilize play action, particularly in the red zone

I am a firm believer that once you get into the red zone, say from the 15 yrard line in, and you have a first and ten, the best action to take is to go under center, not the shotgun , call play ation and look for a quick strike in the end zone.

Also, do it without a huddle.

Manning is a master of it. Brady could be too if the coaching staff would take their heads out of their asses.

or if they would just read your volumes of posts on the subject.

 

[letekro]

That would make sense if the entire outcome of the game hinged on one offensive play. Which it obviously didn't.

The point is that you can have a good adjustment and a bad play. And with so few possessions in the second half, you certainly can say that one or two plays can make a difference between winning and losing.

As for the defense's troubles, those clearly started in the first half, although the Second Half Nazis seem to ignore that point.

 

[JackBauer]

The point is that you can have a good adjustment and a bad play. And with so few possessions in the second half, you certainly can say that one or two plays can make a difference between winning and losing.

As for the defense's troubles, those clearly started in the first half, although the Second Half Nazis seem to ignore that point.

Growing pains are to be expected with this defense.

My issues are with the offense, only.

 

[Deus Irae]

Growing pains are to be expected with this defense.

My issues are with the offense, only.

Simple question.....

Before the game began, if I told you that Brady has Moss alone on the sideline against Cromartie, would you have said

"Yes, throw him the ball!"

or

"Oh, no. That's a win for Cromartie!"?

 

[DaBruinz]

Simple question.....

Before the game began, if I told you that Brady has Moss alone on the sideline against Cromartie, would you have said

"Yes, throw him the ball!"

or

"Oh, no. That's a win for Cromartie!"?

Neither.. I'd have asked you how far away Brady was. Under 35 yards, I'd say yes. Over 35 yards, I'd have to pause and think about it..

 

[JackBauer]

Simple question.....

Before the game began, if I told you that Brady has Moss alone on the sideline against Cromartie, would you have said

"Yes, throw him the ball!"

or

"Oh, no. That's a win for Cromartie!"?

Clearly the former.... though it would depend on the situation.

 

[Deus Irae]

Clearly the former.... though it would depend on the situation.

Well, if it's clearly the former, how can you have a gripe with the offensive playcalling that led to that matchup?

 

[stcjones]

In a way you are right. It is hard to place blame or criticism on personnel that does not exist. In an interview before season began, I recall Obrien stating that they weren't concerned with "job titles" there and that the only one whose job title mattered was Head Coach Bill Belichick. So, you are right......Obrien, who is assisting in some capacity in offensive game planning, but is ultimately not responsible for it because that is not his job title......is off the hook. Belichick on the other hand.....IS responsible for making adjustments as the game goes on, continuing to go with a plan that IS WORKING, and to get creative.....Oh, and while he is balancing that clipboard.....He has to do the SAME THING on defense.......because he has the ultimate responsibility over the D as well.

What I, and many other fans here are getting at is that IT IS TOO MUCH for one guy to be responsible for. Secondly, continuing to hire ballboys and inexperienced personnel to do a job that it takes years and years for the GREAT OC/DC's to do.....is setting them up for failure. Look at the Pats championship teams......Seasoned, veteran, creative/genius, and extremely talented OC and DC. Throw rocks at Weis if you want....but the guy helped us win 3 championships...with MUCH LESS TALENT. Romeo is brilliant....few would argue that. Look at the teams that have won SB's recently.......all with good skilled,veteran, many regarded as the top of their profession coordinators......that is the recipe that works. Each man has his specialty and responsibility.......No man is an island. Belichick needs to remember that and make some changes.

 

[JackBauer]

Well, if it's clearly the former, how can you have a gripe with the offensive playcalling that led to that matchup?

Because my gripe isn't solely with that play call?

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, if it's clearly the former, how can you have a gripe with the offensive playcalling that led to that matchup?

Very easily. Because nothing is ever set in stone or as simple as your portrayed it. There are a lot of factors that go into it.

People have had issues with O'Brien for the last 2 years.. In fact, one could say that the offense is more predictable with him as the OC than with either McDaniels or Weis.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because my gripe isn't solely with that play call?

Both interceptions were Moss one-on-one with Cromartie. Other than that, we have examples of:


Bad pass to Crumpler - would have been a first down
Bad pass to Gronk - would have been a first down
Bad pass to Morris - on a short pass

These are execution issues.

 

[Deus Irae]

Very easily. Because nothing is ever set in stone or as simple as your portrayed it. There are a lot of factors that go into it.

People have had issues with O'Brien for the last 2 years.. In fact, one could say that the offense is more predictable with him as the OC than with either McDaniels or Weis.

People have had issues with the offensive coordinator since there have been message boards, regardless of which team or offensive coordinator you're talking about.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's try another angle and go drive by drive...

I believe that Brady was 7 for 16 in the second half.

First drive:

Brady is 4 for 5
NE gets 3 first downs
Ball moves from Patriots 30 to Jets 47

End Result: Pass #6 is the interception at the 3.


So, who's got a problem with the O.C. on that drive?

 

[mgteich]

I agree.

Please consider the coaching of the offense in the times of Charlie and Josh as aopposed to the last two years. Please indicate whether you think the coaching was the same or better in one of the periods with regard to

1) 2nd half adjustments and scoring in the second half

2) winning on the road

3) efficiency in finishing off teams
===================

Maybe you believe that we just have weaker offensive talent now and the coaches can do nothing until we get better talent.

People have had issues with the offensive coordinator since there have been message boards, regardless of which team or offensive coordinator you're talking about.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree.

Please consider the coaching of the offense in the times of Charlie and Josh as aopposed to the last two years. Please indicate whether you think the coaching was the same or better in one of the periods with regard to

1) 2nd half adjustments and scoring in the second half

2) winning on the road

3) efficiency in finishing off teams
===================

Maybe you believe that we just have weaker offensive talent now and the coaches can do nothing until we get better talent.

I'm talking about one game. I really don't find people who are using one game as a springboard to go off on the coordinators to be particularly credible in their arguments, because they are ignoring a host of factors in their zeal to get after the playcalling.

Here's a reality from the Jets game: If you are happy with a Moss v. Cromartie matchup, every drive in the second half had an execution/non-coordinator failure that came back to bite the team in the ass.

Drive 1: Int to Moss at 3 yard line
Drive 2: Missed pass to Gronkowski
Drive 3: Int to Moss #2
Drive 4: Missed pass to Crumpler
Drive 5: strip sack

 

[BradyFTW!]

That's what they said about Josh in 2005 and 2006. And even to a lesser extent in 2008 once they convinced themselves Cassel was certainly a relevation and therefore no excuse for McDaniel's crappy management of that offense.

The JETS fans have been blaming Shotty Jr. for every failure they've endured through three QB changes and three HC defensive scheme and system changes to date. It's what fans do because it's easy.

So because someone always has a problem with a coordinator, every complaint about a coordinator is invalid? That's some pretty curious logic. Personally, for example, I never had issue with a playcaller in the Belichick era until O'Brien. Even with Pees, I could acknowledge that the personnel that he had available just wasn't up to old standards. O'Brien doesn't have that excuse though, and the failings of the offense are too consistent over too long a period to be random.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that Brady played a poor game.

I still believe that better coaching would have helped produce better performance. The offense hasn't really seemed in synch under O'brien, no matter how much talent is added.

I'm talking about one game. I really don't find people who are using one game as a springboard to go off on the coordinators to be particularly credible in their arguments, because they are ignoring a host of factors in their zeal to get after the playcalling.

Here's a reality from the Jets game: If you are happy with a Moss v. Cromartie matchup, every drive in the second half had an execution/non-coordinator failure that came back to bite the team in the ass.

Drive 1: Int to Moss at 3 yard line
Drive 2: Missed pass to Gronkowski
Drive 3: Int to Moss #2
Drive 4: Missed pass to Crumpler
Drive 5: strip sack