Question for Patriots Fans - Please Help me Understand

[upstater1]

I did actually. Who didnt?!?!?!

And yea it was a bad game. But it was ONE game. Do you know how many games like that there are all season with different teams being the victims and benefactors?

If you know anything about the committees that oversee the refs and the rules, you know that 5 men in the NFL have a lot of power over the refs and how they call things. One referee was quoted as saying that they were going to pay attention to Off. Pass Interference because of Moss's reputation BEFORE a game. Sure enough, the game began and they called it on him when it should not have been. That is called biased refereeing.

As for the NFL, it's not just Patriots fans that think the league's penalty was over the top. A lot of people mentioned that Goodell was goaded into it. I heard analyst's like Peter King say that the penalty has to be heavy, a 3rd or 4th rounder. Next thing you know, they had all upped the ante, and Goodell was afraid of PR, and he went with it.

 

[oldskool138]

And finally, and I hate to bring this up but its something that really needs to be said. Can a team that benefited from the "tuck rule", something recognized leaguewide (except perhaps in NE) as a mistake, HOW can you complain about the refs so much especially when youre undefeated? Your team is so good, and is winning week in and week out, yet fans still complain. I just dont get it.

Oh! Sorry, dude. You just lost all your creditability with me. The "Tuck Rule" issue is dead, buried, and decomposed.

One last little nugget for ya buddy: The Tuck Rule was used against the Pats in a Jets game earlier that same season.

 

[RayClay]

Ive been reading this board all season (amazing board by the way, probably one of the most active I've ever seen)

Im not a Pats fan, Im a Minnesota fan, and I just dont understand some of the behaviour around here.

I constantly read posts by Pats fans who seem to honestly believe that the NFL and the game officials are actually out to get them! These people aren't kidding, theyre sincere, and its a fairly common view.

I mean honestly? Every team gets bad calls against them and every team gets bad calls in their favour. Its human nature to only remember the bad ones that go against you, just like in poker where you only remember all the times you got beat by some random fluke but never remember when a miracle card falls in your favour.

How is it that any fan in any city, especially one whose team is UNDEFEATED can actually be so ignorant as to think the league and its officials hold a vendetta against them?

I consistantly see how much you guys love to call fans in other cities "whiners". "The Colts are the biggest whiners", "The Steelers are the biggest whiners", etc, yes so many of you sit here and complain about how bad the NFL treats you, how biased the refs are, etc.

Can someone please explain to me how any serious sports fan with a drop of a clue can actually think their team is being targeted by league officials and refs? Id love to understand.

Do you actually believe the refs are out to get you? Do you actually believe the Commissioner is against you? Do you actually believe that GM from the Colts has the power to mold the league to his liking so his team could beat you? Do you actually believe that the NFL intentionally lets other teams off on things and nails the patriots just for kicks?

You guys are on pace for a perfect season and you STILL complain and make conspiracy theories. SHould that not make YOU the biggest whiners? I cant even imagine what this place would sound like if the Pats lost a game.

(oh and dont use "bullcrap Offensive PI on Moss". Its been happening his WHOLE career. Minnesota fans remember it well. The fact of the matter is, he should know by now whats going to happen if he puts his hands on a dback. Its bull**** yes, but its not new)

(oh and sorry to the Pats fans around here who actually write with their brains, I dont mean to group you in with the crazies)

Did you watch the Indy game?

Are you aware there's a competition committee manned by only certain coaches/executives which reviews and changes the rules other teams have to play by?

Do you realize anyone is allowed to tape games, yet we got fined 1/2 million (more?) and lost a first round pick?

Do I believe there's an organized conspiracy? No.

Do I believe people like Polian and Shula have been playing politics to rig things towards their teams strengths and against their weaknesses for years?

What do you think?

 

[upstater1]

Pefect example of a fan who makes the rest of pats fans look bad.
"were getting screwed and if you dont believe me then get the **** out"

Lets let the intelligent and clear headed posters populate this thread please.

No, you need to use YOUR intelligence. Czonka was quoted yesterday as saying that Shula forced himself onto the rules committee to change the rules in way that created an advantage for them. This happens. You're blind if you think it doesn't. One year after the Colts lost to the Patriots, Polian had the rules changed to favor the Colts. You didn't know this? Come on, pay attention.

 

[Fixit]

Can a team that benefited from the "tuck rule", something recognized leaguewide (except perhaps in NE) as a mistake...

Okay, no. Everyone with a brain acknowledges that the call of incomplete pass was correct. It was called that way before the Tuck Game, and it's been called that way since. We won't mention Charles Woodson's uncalled personal foul against Brady.

You were sounding kind of rational up until that point.

 

[FootballFan85]

I don't agree that rule change made games necessary more exciting. What it did was offense just throwing the ball up in the air and pray for PI call. Even before the rule change, there have been prolific passing teams, such as 98 Vikings. If anything, it just made games longer with tedious calls, whining by players and coaches.

Besides, we all know Moss is held about 90% of the times beyond line of scrimage.

Thats fair I can see your point.

My view is that any rule that is meant to favor skill plays is ok in my books. That rule makes it so that a corner cant manhandle a WR and in my mind thats a good thing. I want to see a skilled receiver get to make a play on the ball as best he can, and I want to see him doing so against a corner using skill to try and stop him.

You guys must remember the days of Ty Law ripping Peyton Mannings passes out of the air. To me the rule favors skill guys like him and skill receivers like Moss, Harrison, To, etc, and personally I love the game for the skill plays wether it be a receiver like Moss using speed and timing for a huge catch or a skill runner cutting and juking his way to a first down

 

[upstater1]

Did you watch the Indy game?

He says he did.

Are you aware there's a competition committee manned by only certain coaches/executives which reviews and changes the rules other teams have to play by?

I really don't think he is aware of this?

Do you realize anyone is allowed to tape games, yet we got fined 1/2 million (more?) and lost a first round pick?

Most people are aware of this but thy prefer to stick it to the Patriots by deliberately ignoring the obvious.

10 characters

 

[ShrewBeer]

Let me just pose this question:

If the league WAS actually against the Pats, how would you be undefeated?

There have been NUMEROUS close games for you guys. If the refs really were all for the Colts for instance, they couldve easily handed that win to them. You guys beat the Colts by less than a touchdown. The refs could have changed that score if they wanted to very easily. Why didnt they? Whats the point in being against or for a team if the opposite outcome of what the refs apparently want happens anyways?

Same with your whole season. The Baltimore game. If the refs were actually against the Pats, Baltimore wouldve won that game.

And finally, and I hate to bring this up but its something that really needs to be said. Can a team that benefited from the "tuck rule", something recognized leaguewide (except perhaps in NE) as a mistake, HOW can you complain about the refs so much especially when youre undefeated? Your team is so good, and is winning week in and week out, yet fans still complain. I just dont get it.

we beat the colts by less than a touchdown because the refs were so bad. did you watch that game? the officiating was TERRIBLE. they did everything to take that game away.the baltimore game was a wash. they were letting the baltimore defense get away with murder all game, and then they started calling things in the end.
and finally, how in the hell is the "tuck rule" a MISTAKE??? it is a rule. and more recently it came to vote by the OWNERS whether or not to get rid of it, and the OWNERS voted to KEEP THE RULE. oh, and the oakland owner was one of the owners who voted to keep the rule.

 

[upstater1]

1stly I agree completely that it is a conflict of interest for Polian to be in that position. However, I dont believe the league is blind enough to allow him to manipulate the NFL for no reason other than to help his team. I firmly believe the rule changes in favor of receivers were a good choice. Again, ask your own Moss what his opinion is.

I'd say Moss would be fine with the previous rules because the refs allow defenders to maul him constantly as though the rule was never changed! Have you watched Moss this season? He has people grabbing him 30 yards down the field.

 

[PatsfanGlo]

Tuck rule...... You have to be joking. Yes, it did benefit the Pats but we can also argue that there was helmet to helmet hit on Brady on that play which was never called. It really is a dead topic from 6 years ago.

 

[RayClay]

By the way, the reason we are the greatest offensive team ever to this point is we built a better team to take advantage of Polians rule tweaks than Polian did.

I love how these "objective" posters come in and say we complain about rule tweaks, then always say the forward pass rule correctly reviewed and called was a mistake. Even though it was reviewed in the off season and kept exactly as it was.

When you get so jealous that a correct call is considered a conspiracy to favor the Pats, you lose all pretense of objectivity. Go home troll, there's a bridge waiting to cover you.

 

[MiChargers]

If you know anything about the committees that oversee the refs and the rules, you know that 5 men in the NFL have a lot of power over the refs and how they call things. One referee was quoted as saying that they were going to pay attention to Off. Pass Interference because of Moss's reputation BEFORE a game. Sure enough, the game began and they called it on him when it should not have been. That is called biased refereeing.

As for the NFL, it's not just Patriots fans that think the league's penalty was over the top. A lot of people mentioned that Goodell was goaded into it. I heard analyst's like Peter King say that the penalty has to be heavy, a 3rd or 4th rounder. Next thing you know, they had all upped the ante, and Goodell was afraid of PR, and he went with it.

And that "policy" when into effect for the entire NFL. There's been more calls for offensive PI this year than any other year.......across the board. There are other teams in this league, besides the Patriots. Hard to believe, I know. Now, does that "policy" effect certain players more than others (such as Moss)? Absolutely. But it effects every team. Liken it to the change of protecting shots to a QBs head (or any new rule for that matter). Any rule change will have an impact on certain teams/players more than others.

 

[upstater1]

"Can a team that benefited from the "tuck rule", something recognized leaguewide (except perhaps in NE) as a mistake..."

Is the rule a mistake?

If so, why haven't they changed it?

The tuck rule is called the exact same way about 5 times every season.

Are you aware that the Patriots would even have had to play the Raiders in that game were it not for the tuck rule and a game we lost to the Jets when we thought we had recovered a fumble, but the refs ruled Testaverde didn't fumble it per the tuck rule, and then the Jets won the game? So, would you want to apply the rule only in some cases but not in others? How is that a mistake?

 

[FootballFan85]

we beat the colts by less than a touchdown because the refs were so bad. did you watch that game? the officiating was TERRIBLE. they did everything to take that game away.the baltimore game was a wash. they were letting the baltimore defense get away with murder all game, and then they started calling things in the end.
and finally, how in the hell is the "tuck rule" a MISTAKE??? it is a rule. and more recently it came to vote by the OWNERS whether or not to get rid of it, and the OWNERS voted to KEEP THE RULE. oh, and the oakland owner was one of the owners who voted to keep the rule.

No no this is not my point regarding the score. My point regarding the score was that if the refs were actually trying to make the Colts win, why did they stop up 4 points short? They could easily have held back on the Pats or given the Colts the little extra to change the game. But they didnt. Why?

As for the tuck rule, sorry guys but on a New England forum, I expected as much by bringing it up, which is why it was a mistake. But fans outside your city simply dont agree for the most part. Watch the video. If thats not a fumble then not much is. The rule was misused and it was unfortunate.
It remidns me of the time in a Dallas Buffalo game in the Stanley Cup finals a written rule was blatently misinterpreted but it had such a huge effect on the game, that is was simply ignored.
Sorry to bring it up guys, I now realize this is not the place nor the time.

 

[patsox23]

And finally, and I hate to bring this up but its something that really needs to be said. Can a team that benefited from the "tuck rule", something recognized leaguewide (except perhaps in NE) as a mistake, HOW can you complain about the refs so much especially when youre undefeated?

Um...you SHOULD "hate to bring this up" because, until now, I had been your staunchest defender here. This is ASININE and beneath you. The tuck rule was called AGAINST the Pats earlier in the season, for one. Secondly, all of us agree that it's a DUMB rule but you need to concede that it is an exisiting one, and was - without any room for the doubt that you and the rest of the world have created - ABSOLUTELY an EASY call.

As soon as BB saw it on the DiamondVision he said he knew it would be reversed. Walt Coleman said after the game that as soon as he looked under the hood and saw it ONCE that his first thought was, "Oh sh!t. I have to reverse this."

So stick with your original post. That last one was pathetic and damaging to your viewpoint.

 

[patsox23]

As for the tuck rule, sorry guys but on a New England forum, I expected as much by bringing it up, which is why it was a mistake. But fans outside your city simply dont agree for the most part. Watch the video.

This is a perfect example of football fans NOT KNOWING WHAT THE RULE IS. Now, I'm giving you the opportunity to explain WHAT YOU THINK the tuck rule is. Go ahead. I dare you.

 

[upstater1]

And that "policy" when into effect for the entire NFL. There's been more calls for offensive PI this year than any other year.......across the board. There are other teams in this league, besides the Patriots. Hard to believe, I know. Now, does that "policy" effect certain players more than others (such as Moss)? Absolutely. But it effects every team. Liken it to the change of protecting shots to a QBs head (or any new rule for that matter). Any rule change will have an impact on certain teams/players more than others.

You seem to have missed the basic point here.

If a ref specifically says he will look for one thing on a certain player, and then that ref throws a flag against that player for OPI when that player did not commit OPI, then that referee is biased.

I have no qualms against OPI being called.

You missed the entire point.

 

[upstater1]

No no this is not my point regarding the score. My point regarding the score was that if the refs were actually trying to make the Colts win, why did they stop up 4 points short? They could easily have held back on the Pats or given the Colts the little extra to change the game. But they didnt. Why?

As for the tuck rule, sorry guys but on a New England forum, I expected as much by bringing it up, which is why it was a mistake. But fans outside your city simply dont agree for the most part. Watch the video. If thats not a fumble then not much is. The rule was misused and it was unfortunate.
It remidns me of the time in a Dallas Buffalo game in the Stanley Cup finals a written rule was blatently misinterpreted but it had such a huge effect on the game, that is was simply ignored.
Sorry to bring it up guys, I now realize this is not the place nor the time.

What is the tuck rule? Do you know what it is?

Seems like you don't understand the rule at all.

 

[MiChargers]

This is a perfect example of football fans NOT KNOWING WHAT THE RULE IS. Now, I'm giving you the opportunity to explain WHAT YOU THINK the tuck rule is. Go ahead. I dare you.

Go ahead.....triple dog dare him.

 

[FootballFan85]

This is a perfect example of football fans NOT KNOWING WHAT THE RULE IS. Now, I'm giving you the opportunity to explain WHAT YOU THINK the tuck rule is. Go ahead. I dare you.

Sure
The tuck rule is a rule that means if the QB is attempting to STOP their passing motion and bring the ball back to keep the ball, that if the ball is knocked out its not a fumble.

It DOESNT mean that a QB can pump the ball, bring it back in and then lose it and not be a fumble.

In that Oakland game, Brady does his pump, but then nbrings the ball down and even sets his other hand in front and THEN the ball is knocked out from behind. Sorry if I dont see that as in the process of stopping the passing motion. Most people outside NE dont either.

This thread has become a waste now though. I knew I shouldntve brought this up.