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Question for Patriots Fans - Please Help me Understand

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by FootballFan85, Dec 18, 2007.

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  1. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    Ive been reading this board all season (amazing board by the way, probably one of the most active I've ever seen)

    Im not a Pats fan, Im a Minnesota fan, and I just dont understand some of the behaviour around here.

    I constantly read posts by Pats fans who seem to honestly believe that the NFL and the game officials are actually out to get them! These people aren't kidding, theyre sincere, and its a fairly common view.

    I mean honestly? Every team gets bad calls against them and every team gets bad calls in their favour. Its human nature to only remember the bad ones that go against you, just like in poker where you only remember all the times you got beat by some random fluke but never remember when a miracle card falls in your favour.

    How is it that any fan in any city, especially one whose team is UNDEFEATED can actually be so ignorant as to think the league and its officials hold a vendetta against them?

    I consistantly see how much you guys love to call fans in other cities "whiners". "The Colts are the biggest whiners", "The Steelers are the biggest whiners", etc, yes so many of you sit here and complain about how bad the NFL treats you, how biased the refs are, etc.

    Can someone please explain to me how any serious sports fan with a drop of a clue can actually think their team is being targeted by league officials and refs? Id love to understand.

    Do you actually believe the refs are out to get you? Do you actually believe the Commissioner is against you? Do you actually believe that GM from the Colts has the power to mold the league to his liking so his team could beat you? Do you actually believe that the NFL intentionally lets other teams off on things and nails the patriots just for kicks?

    You guys are on pace for a perfect season and you STILL complain and make conspiracy theories. SHould that not make YOU the biggest whiners? I cant even imagine what this place would sound like if the Pats lost a game.

    (oh and dont use "bullcrap Offensive PI on Moss". Its been happening his WHOLE career. Minnesota fans remember it well. The fact of the matter is, he should know by now whats going to happen if he puts his hands on a dback. Its bull**** yes, but its not new)

    (oh and sorry to the Pats fans around here who actually write with their brains, I dont mean to group you in with the crazies)
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  2. ShrewBeer

    ShrewBeer Rookie

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    for me, its this whole spygate thing. our team was dragged through the mud, and kicked while down, all for nothing. its so frustrating. im not sure i believe that the refs are against us, although i believe that the refs are for the colts.
  3. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    Well, I think that a lot of the complaints about the officiating come out of the Colts game this year. Did watch that one? 141 penalty yards for the Pats vs. 25 for the Colts.

    Lately, the officiating has been pretty good (esp. in the Steelers game where the refs let the boys play some football).

    There are some wacky conspiracy theorists that like to post here but don't let them skew your view. We New Englanders like to complain about stuff and it's hard to complain about a team that's 14-0.
  4. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    Do you not understand though that EVERY team has fans who believe the refs are "for" their rivals?

    To say the refs are FOR any team is insane! Different refs do the games each week. Is the entire reffing staff of the NFL Colts fans? Just because theyre a rival who give you guys trouble doesnt make the refs in their pocket.

    I think I'll start saying the refs are for whatever team Minnesota ends up playing if we hit the playoffs.
  5. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    I did actually. Who didnt?!?!?!

    And yea it was a bad game. But it was ONE game. Do you know how many games like that there are all season with different teams being the victims and benefactors?
  6. PatsfanGlo

    PatsfanGlo Rookie

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    In my opinion, our deep seeded suspicion began with Bill Polian meddling with PI rule. Polian *****ed and moaned about everything Pats did to the point that they made Ty Law rule, made Pats change field turf and so on. Polian being very influential person in NFL, I think most of us began to develop mistrust for NFL leadership board. I don't think a lot of us are conspiracy theorists though. We did have some major gripes about officiating during Colts game but for most part, I can't really complain much.
  7. taltos

    taltos Rookie

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    I do believe that the NFL Competition Commitee is out to get the Patriots in the persons of Poulian and Fox. Check out points of enforcement over the past three years and Pats appeals against the Colts and Titans. We could have video proof and it is disallowed. Check out unequal enforcement with a technical violation that had no effect on competition because the Pats filmed in a forbidden area although filming was allowed. What did they do to the Broncos when they screwed with the salary cap which has more effect on competition? Watch any game and see if the Patriots get an even break on penalties. If you think so, you are not being unbiased. My brother is a Giants fan and I showed him several tapes and he agreed that the Pats are getting screwed. One last comment since I question why you have the right to question our fans and our team, GFY. Get lost *******.
  8. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    Yeah, but with a differential of 136 penalty yards? Two of the three big PI calls against the Pats were ticky-tack at best.

    Personally, I don't think the refs are "out to get us". I mean, if they did have a vendetta against the Pats then we would have lost the Ravens game. The officiating isn't the greatest but like coach Belichick says "It is what it is".
  9. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    Ok but would you agree or disagree that the rule changes made the game more exciting?
    Its just like in hockey where rule changes were made to give skill players more chance to use their talent. Sure if you were a fan of a team with a bunch of goons whod won by clutching and grabbing you might be pissed (NOT saying thats what the pats were) but the reality is its good for the game.

    Im sure New Englands own Randy Moss approves of the changes Polian initiated, and Im sure Tom Brady does too now that the two are on pace to set records.
  10. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    ffan85, look at the huge discrepency in penalty calls and yardage for the Pats versus the Colts.

    It is... really hard to say with a straight face that it's purely coincidence.
  11. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I agree with the original poster - fans here who HONESTLY believe that the league is targeting us are just silly. The officiating isn't crooked, it's CRAPPY. And it's crappy for everyone. Maybe this year it's been more so against us, who knows, but I think that's likely just the breaks. They do an awful job, but they're not cheating against us.
  12. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    Pefect example of a fan who makes the rest of pats fans look bad.
    "were getting screwed and if you dont believe me then get the **** out"

    Lets let the intelligent and clear headed posters populate this thread please.
  13. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    This post doesn't represent the actual fans on this site, who made it a good site for YEARS before the bandwagoner newbies came on board with their commoner perspectives on the game.

    The OP brought up a legit point, and expressed it fairly and compellingly. I'm all for fans of other teams being here, as long as they "bring it" in ways that are respectful and intelligent. Yours, sadly, is not. We need more of the Minnesota fan and less of the angry, childish newbies.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  14. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

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    I don't think the refs consciously try to screw NE. I do know that when NE and Indianapolis play the calls are consistently and heavily in favor of the Colts. Maybe it's just coincidence, but just as likely it is the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Also, Polian is such a special combination of powerful and scumbag that I would not be surprised to discover that he has been up to something nefarious when it comes to officiating.

    Beyond that, for me it's frustration with the perception that NE actually gets calls. Look at the Ravens game, when the "favortism" was all plays where either the refs had no choice or when Baltimore called timeout and the refs had the gall to grant it. The following week I heard a ton of talk about how bad and lopsided the officiating was. At the same time blatant and horrible officiating against NE (this year's Indy game, which my girlfriend who doesn't really care about football thought might have been fixed) is swept under the rug and ignored. Whenever NE faces its biggest rival it gets screwed over by the refs AND we then have to listen to opposing fans tell us we get all of the calls. Add to this the fact that the past two years NE has been knocked out of the playoffs in horribly officiated games and it's frustrating to hear.

    One last thing is the extension of spygate. The league overreacted and heavily penalized the team for a rather minor infraction. Excuse us if we're sensitive to the fact that the league isn't always fair.

    *edit* Oh yeah, I forgot the point of emphasis. A rule was emphasized to specifically target and hurt NE. The fact that the same rule is hardly being called for NE now that they have the best offense in the league doesn't help.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  15. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Whether a directive from the league to screw or promote certain individuals or teams actually exists, why is it so hard to believe that it could?

    The NFL is nothing more than a business. It will promote and do whatever it feels will make it as successful as possible. Any other business passes over worthy candidates for promotion in favor of lesser candidates due to office politics, for example. People also get different raises based upon performance or whether or not they're liked by their superiors and coworkers.

    The NFL is a business concerned only with its own success. So if, 20 years from now, a ref writes a book and says that he was directed by the league to turn a blind eye to certain game-changing penalties on a consistent basis for a particular team, I'd shrug and say, "No kidding."

    The NFL isn't this bastion of purity and fairness, and I don't know why people think it is.
  16. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    1stly I agree completely that it is a conflict of interest for Polian to be in that position. However, I dont believe the league is blind enough to allow him to manipulate the NFL for no reason other than to help his team. I firmly believe the rule changes in favor of receivers were a good choice. Again, ask your own Moss what his opinion is.

    As for calls consistantly going in favor of one team, again I ask you, is this true or is it simply a case of you remember the ones that hurt you better than the ones that help you. If we went over the the Colts board do you not think the fans would have the exact opposite opinion of yours? Not enough fans can step back and objectively view officiating, and if they could, theyd realize that every team in the league has fans who constantly claim the refs are against them or for someone else.

    As for SpyGate, it was too harsh thats for sure. However do you not agree that the fact that Bellichick had been warned previously may have had a hand in it? Either way I agree the draftpick loss was over the top. It happsn in every sport though and Ive never heard a team hit with a punishment say "well yea that was fair"
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  17. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    I know you probably don't watch all the Pats games but our Mr. Moss has been flagged for offensive PI at a rate of almost once a game. Name me another Top 5 WR that has that kind of problem?
  18. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    Let me just pose this question:

    If the league WAS actually against the Pats, how would you be undefeated?

    There have been NUMEROUS close games for you guys. If the refs really were all for the Colts for instance, they couldve easily handed that win to them. You guys beat the Colts by less than a touchdown. The refs could have changed that score if they wanted to very easily. Why didnt they? Whats the point in being against or for a team if the opposite outcome of what the refs apparently want happens anyways?

    Same with your whole season. The Baltimore game. If the refs were actually against the Pats, Baltimore wouldve won that game.

    And finally, and I hate to bring this up but its something that really needs to be said. Can a team that benefited from the "tuck rule", something recognized leaguewide (except perhaps in NE) as a mistake, HOW can you complain about the refs so much especially when youre undefeated? Your team is so good, and is winning week in and week out, yet fans still complain. I just dont get it.
  19. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    You didnt read the whole thread! tisk tisk

    Im a Vikings fan. I watched Moss longer than you likely have and as I already addressed, Moss has had this problem for a LONG time. Its not new.

    And Polians rule changes have no effect on Moss getting offensive pass interference. He gets that because hes so dominant that refs give him no leeway. He doesnt need it. He should know after this long that even the smallest push, while completely inconsequential, will probably hurt him.

    Repeat Moss being called for Offensive PI has NOTHING to do with what team hes on.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  20. PatsfanGlo

    PatsfanGlo Rookie

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    I don't agree that rule change made games necessary more exciting. What it did was offense just throwing the ball up in the air and pray for PI call. Even before the rule change, there have been prolific passing teams, such as 98 Vikings. If anything, it just made games longer with tedious calls, whining by players and coaches.

    Besides, we all know Moss is held about 90% of the times beyond line of scrimage.:eek:
  21. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    If you know anything about the committees that oversee the refs and the rules, you know that 5 men in the NFL have a lot of power over the refs and how they call things. One referee was quoted as saying that they were going to pay attention to Off. Pass Interference because of Moss's reputation BEFORE a game. Sure enough, the game began and they called it on him when it should not have been. That is called biased refereeing.

    As for the NFL, it's not just Patriots fans that think the league's penalty was over the top. A lot of people mentioned that Goodell was goaded into it. I heard analyst's like Peter King say that the penalty has to be heavy, a 3rd or 4th rounder. Next thing you know, they had all upped the ante, and Goodell was afraid of PR, and he went with it.
  22. oldskool138

    oldskool138 Rookie

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    Oh! Sorry, dude. You just lost all your creditability with me. The "Tuck Rule" issue is dead, buried, and decomposed.

    One last little nugget for ya buddy: The Tuck Rule was used against the Pats in a Jets game earlier that same season.
  23. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Did you watch the Indy game?

    Are you aware there's a competition committee manned by only certain coaches/executives which reviews and changes the rules other teams have to play by?

    Do you realize anyone is allowed to tape games, yet we got fined 1/2 million (more?) and lost a first round pick?

    Do I believe there's an organized conspiracy? No.

    Do I believe people like Polian and Shula have been playing politics to rig things towards their teams strengths and against their weaknesses for years?

    What do you think?
  24. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    No, you need to use YOUR intelligence. Czonka was quoted yesterday as saying that Shula forced himself onto the rules committee to change the rules in way that created an advantage for them. This happens. You're blind if you think it doesn't. One year after the Colts lost to the Patriots, Polian had the rules changed to favor the Colts. You didn't know this? Come on, pay attention.
  25. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Okay, no. Everyone with a brain acknowledges that the call of incomplete pass was correct. It was called that way before the Tuck Game, and it's been called that way since. We won't mention Charles Woodson's uncalled personal foul against Brady.

    You were sounding kind of rational up until that point.
  26. FootballFan85

    FootballFan85 Banned

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    Thats fair I can see your point.

    My view is that any rule that is meant to favor skill plays is ok in my books. That rule makes it so that a corner cant manhandle a WR and in my mind thats a good thing. I want to see a skilled receiver get to make a play on the ball as best he can, and I want to see him doing so against a corner using skill to try and stop him.

    You guys must remember the days of Ty Law ripping Peyton Mannings passes out of the air. To me the rule favors skill guys like him and skill receivers like Moss, Harrison, To, etc, and personally I love the game for the skill plays wether it be a receiver like Moss using speed and timing for a huge catch or a skill runner cutting and juking his way to a first down
  27. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    10 characters
  28. ShrewBeer

    ShrewBeer Rookie

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    we beat the colts by less than a touchdown because the refs were so bad. did you watch that game? the officiating was TERRIBLE. they did everything to take that game away.the baltimore game was a wash. they were letting the baltimore defense get away with murder all game, and then they started calling things in the end.
    and finally, how in the hell is the "tuck rule" a MISTAKE??? it is a rule. and more recently it came to vote by the OWNERS whether or not to get rid of it, and the OWNERS voted to KEEP THE RULE. oh, and the oakland owner was one of the owners who voted to keep the rule.
  29. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I'd say Moss would be fine with the previous rules because the refs allow defenders to maul him constantly as though the rule was never changed! Have you watched Moss this season? He has people grabbing him 30 yards down the field.
  30. PatsfanGlo

    PatsfanGlo Rookie

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    Tuck rule......:D You have to be joking. Yes, it did benefit the Pats but we can also argue that there was helmet to helmet hit on Brady on that play which was never called. It really is a dead topic from 6 years ago.
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