Giant Advantages ?

[Watson's IQ]

When you word it that way... then I would have to say the Patriots... but I would be very very nervous before/during the game... and I might be dead after.

You might be, but at least you'd die happy.

Look, anyone who tells you that the Giants have NO chance is an idiot. But that doesn't mean it's necessary to invent ways in which the Giants have "advantages" over the Patriots. There really aren't any significant ways in which they do. In fact, by most statistical measures the Giants are the worst Super Bowl team of all time, while the Patriots record speaks for itself.

If the Giants win, which they might, it will be one of the greatest upsets of all time, specifically because the Patriots are SO much better. You inventing ways in which the Giants match up well is not going to help the cause, so why bother? Wouldn't the upset be sweeter if you acknowledged it was just that?

No one begrudges you believing in your team, I'd have much less respect for you if you did. But why do you need us to validate it for you?

 

[leek21]

Giants Advantages :

Running backs - Jacobs / Bradshaw

Do you really think BB has not thought about how to stop them and plug all the gaps ... plz...

He will take away your running game and it will be up to Eli ... I have yet to see Eli throw more passes, especially under pressure. If you look at the number of throws from Eli, it is way, way, lower than what would be required to win against the Pats...

He tried that in the first game... Giants didn't run the ball well in the first half but Eli and the offense lit up your defense... in fact Giants were winning while he tried that strategy.

Your defense :

TB is going to rip your defense to shreds... Your corners will not be able to cover everyone, especially Moss - when he runs at an angle and breaks away, it is going to be very hard to stop him.

TB ? We already beat Tampa Bay.
Seriously I think the deep ball to Moss will be taken away. TO was suppose to get deep and failed. Jenning was suppose to get deep and failed. The only deep ball came in the GB game when Webster was thrown down and Driver ran open.

And Welker ? You must be dreaming if you think you can stop him. There are just too many weapons on offense and when you are trailing a couple of TDs, let's see Eli at work .... If he has to live up to the hype from the NYG fans, he has to first prove himself.

I heard the same thing from Dallas fans and they are still not over the loss.
They had Romo, TO, Terry Glenn, Crayton, Witten, Barber, Jones, Hurd...

Dallas's offense was also stacked.

In the GB game, you guys were just plain lucky... Brett Favre threw an inside pass and allowed Webster to cut in front. If he had thrown a screen to Grant instead, it would be GB and not the Giants here.

And Tynes.. he's not going to get three tries in a clutch situation (if at all there is one).

Who was lucky ? The Giants getting a legit pick OR the Packers staying alive because of 2 easy field goals ?

 

[Watson's IQ]

I heard the same thing from Dallas fans and they are still not over the loss.
They had Romo, TO, Terry Glenn, Crayton, Witten, Barber, Jones, Hurd...

Dallas's offense was also stacked.

This is the most ridiculous thing you've said yet. You realize that in the entire history of the NFL, ZERO teams have scored as many points as the Patriots. Comparing them to any other offense this year, particularly one that fell apart down the stretch, is nothing short of pure idiocy. I'll give you a chance to think over that asinine comparison. You are grasping at straws.

 

[leek21]

You might be, but at least you'd die happy.

Look, anyone who tells you that the Giants have NO chance is an idiot. But that doesn't mean it's necessary to invent ways in which the Giants have "advantages" over the Patriots. There really aren't any significant ways in which they do. In fact, by most statistical measures the Giants are the worst Super Bowl team of all time, while the Patriots record speaks for itself.

If the Giants win, which they might, it will be one of the greatest upsets of all time, specifically because the Patriots are SO much better. You inventing ways in which the Giants match up well is not going to help the cause, so why bother? Wouldn't the upset be sweeter if you acknowledged it was just that?

"invent" ? Sorry to break the news to you but there really are things the Giants are better then the Patriots. Giants really do win some match ups.

I am not inventing them, the one some of you have conceded is Burress vs. Hobbs.

No one begrudges you believing in your team, I'd have much less respect for you if you did. But why do you need us to validate it for you?

Did you think I was expecting you guys to agree with me ?
Yeah that's it Dr.Freud, I came here for your validation.

 

[leek21]

This is the most ridiculous thing you've said yet. You realize that in the entire history of the NFL, ZERO teams have scored as many points as the Patriots. Comparing them to any other offense this year, particularly one that fell apart down the stretch, is nothing short of pure idiocy. I'll give you a chance to think over that asinine comparison. You are grasping at straws.

Again => "reading too much between the lines syndrom".

I never compared the Cowboys/Pack offense to the Pats.

I compared the attitude of the fans.... very over confident, bringing up all sorts of stats (nothing wrong with it), telling me I am a homer, and talking if there was no way their team was going to lose.

I actually don't blame you guys for being over confident, I can see you falling in this trap with an 18-0 team, but just keep this in mind. Cowboy fans are still suffering, they actually shut down their message board right after Romo threw the last interception. Then they removed all Giant-Cowboy messages and the board was back up several hours later.

You don't want to end up like that, do you ?

 

[Watson's IQ]

I am not inventing them, the one some of you have conceded is Burress vs. Hobbs.



Did you think I was expecting you guys to agree with me ?
Yeah that's it Dr.Freud, I came here for your validation.

I'm trying to understand why you did. Seems like you're trying to decide whether to offer some serious football discussion or just act like a troll. One second you make a good point, and then the next it's junk like "yeah, that's what Dallas fans said too!" Pick which it's gonna be and stick with it.

As for the matchups, you're describing things which MIGHT go the Giants way, and declaring those as matchup advantages. Steve Smith might have a great day, Kevin Boss might be huge, and hell, Eli MIGHT have a better game than Tom Brady. Even if I give you Burress vs. Hobbs (Samuel on Toomer is an equal mismatch, if you want to go that direction), you haven't provided any statistics as to why you think the Giants will win the matchups you've raised. You've been presented with plenty of stats from people here, some you've chosen to ignore, and some you've unsuccessfully tried to refute. I don't know what more we can accomplish here, but the more you make unreasonable claims about the Giants, the more people are likely to get defensive with you.

 

[leek21]

The entire Breen Bay TEAM had a bad game. I rewatched that game this past weekend and was amazed at how lousy they played. I'm sure that the weather was a factor, but NE would have beaten that team by 24+ if they played like that.

Every time their defense did anything positive, they would get a RTP penalty or a IC in the secondary. They were dreadful.

That sounds like the excuse you will be using should the Pats lose. I'm calling you on this *BEFORE* the game. I don't want to hear anything along the lines "the whole team had a 'bad game' ".

Will you take your loss and give the Giants credit ?
OR
Will you be like the Cowboys and say things like "the better team lost" ?

 

[Watson's IQ]

Again => "reading too much between the lines syndrom".

I never compared the Cowboys/Pack offense to the Pats.

I compared the attitude of the fans.... very over confident, bringing up all sorts of stats (nothing wrong with it), telling me I am a homer, and talking if there was no way their team was going to lose.

I actually don't blame you guys for being over confident, I can see you falling in this trap with an 18-0 team, but just keep this in mind. Cowboy fans are still suffering, they actually shut down their message board right after Romo threw the last interception. Then they removed all Giant-Cowboy messages and the board was back up several hours later.

You don't want to end up like that, do you ?

No, I'm not reading too much into it. And there is no "18-0 trap". The reason we're confident is precisely because this team is 18-0. Even comparing them to a team like the Cowboys, a team they mopped the floor with, is ridiculous. Cowboys fans who felt their team was unbeatable were factually incorrect, they lost several times. The Patriots have not lost, and odds say they won't. So excuse us if we're confident. You've yet to refute a single stat that I've seen.

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

"invent" ? Sorry to break the news to you but there really are things the Giants are better then the Patriots. Giants really do win some match ups.

I am not inventing them, the one some of you have conceded is Burress vs. Hobbs.



Did you think I was expecting you guys to agree with me ?
Yeah that's it Dr.Freud, I came here for your validation.

No, we didn't expect you to think we would agree with you. What we do expect is some actual facts to back up your "feelings'. You should just empty your 401k and bet it on your Gmen based on your "feelings".

 

[BelichickFan]

well......Neal, Kaczur, and Kyle Brady DID NOT play in that first contest and Brady fared pretty darned well didn't he? We were missing the whole starting right side of the offensive line and still managed to win and overall protect TB.....I see us shutting their D down pretty well again in this game......

When I said it worried me, I didn't actually mean I'm worried but that it's literally the only way I can see us losing. Honestly I don't care about the Giants' offensive matchup against us - despite 35 last time (including a KO return TD and 4/4 in RZ), I don't think the Giants can score more than 27 points (more like 20-23 but I'll say 27) and the only way we score less than 27 IMO is if their front four dominates us. I don't think it will happen but I think it's the only way we lose.

 

[Watson's IQ]

That sounds like the excuse you will be using should the Pats lose. I'm calling you on this *BEFORE* the game. I don't want to hear anything along the lines "the whole team had a 'bad game' ".

Will you take your loss and give the Giants credit ?
OR
Will you be like the Cowboys and say things like "the better team lost" ?

Can't it be both? I will give the Giants credit if they win, but it doesn't mean the better team won't have lost. If you think the Patriots aren't vastly better than the Giants in all three phases, you're beyond helping, to be honest.

I'm just going to repeat a stat for you. You tell me what you think it means, I won't offer my own analysis:

Patriots point differential: 315 (Most all time)
Giants point differential: 22

 

[BelichickFan]

Speaking of the NYG defense, check out the throw Favre lost the game on and look to the left :

http://www.profootballtalk.com/FavreThrow.jpg

where a WR has about 3-4 yards on his DB for a 20 yard gain. Plus another, tighter option and a RB over the middle with no-one near him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Things we can take from the postseason games:


1.) New England is winning by an average score of 26-16, NY is winning by an average score of 22.7-17.

2.) Brady is completing 78.7% of his pass attempts, Manning 62.4%

3.) New England is averaging 4.9 yards per carry, New York 3.5

4.) Maroney is averaging 5.2 yards per carry, Jacobs 3.2

5a.) New England is converting on 56.5% of third downs, opponents 31.8%

5b.) New York is converting on 40.5% of third downs, opponents 50%

6.) In 3 games, Eli's been sacked 6 times. In 2 games, Brady's been sacked 3 times

7.) Tynes is 4-6, Gostkowski is 1-2

8.) In 2 games, New England's only punted 5 times. Giants have punted 15 times in 3 games

9.) Brady has tossed 3 interceptions in 61 attempts, Manning 0 in 85

10.) Brady's passer rating is 105.7, Manning's is 99.1

11.) Brady had one of his two worst games of the year against the Chargers and the Patriots still won going away.

Realistically, the only edge the Giants have shown over the Patriots in the playoffs is the interception numbers. And the Patriots have put up the superior numbers in the conference acknowledged to be the stronger of the two. This is the NFL we're talking about, and anything can happen once the games begin. However, to think that the Giants have more than a puncher's chance, on has to ignore the facts and the numbers.

 

[FrontSeven]

How will your old linebackers stand up to that kind of pounding ?

How will your old mind handle the pounding of losing a SB?

 

[Charlotte Pats Fan]

Things we can take from the postseason games:


1.) New England is winning by an average score of 26-16, NY is winning by an average score of 22.7-17.

2.) Brady is completing 78.7% of his pass attempts, Manning 62.4%

3.) New England is averaging 4.9 yards per carry, New York 3.5

4.) Maroney is averaging 5.2 yards per carry, Jacobs 3.2

5a.) New England is converting on 56.5% of third downs, opponents 31.8%

5b.) New York is converting on 40.5% of third downs, opponents 50%

6.) In 3 games, Eli's been sacked 6 times. In 2 games, Brady's been sacked 3 times

7.) Tynes is 4-6, Gostkowski is 1-2

8.) In 2 games, New England's only punted 5 times. Giants have punted 15 times in 3 games

9.) Brady has tossed 3 interceptions in 61 attempts, Manning 0 in 85

10.) Brady's passer rating is 105.7, Manning's is 99.1

11.) Brady had one of his two worst games of the year against the Chargers and the Patriots still won going away.

Realistically, the only edge the Giants have shown over the Patriots in the playoffs is the interception numbers. And the Patriots have put up the superior numbers in the conference acknowledged to be the stronger of the two. This is the NFL we're talking about, and anything can happen once the games begin. However, to think that the Giants have more than a puncher's chance, on has to ignore the facts and the numbers.

Facts! We don't need no stinkin Facts.

 

[ATippett56]

Again the point went over you head.

Let me break it down for you:

1) For a WR like Welker the best CB the Giants have is Dockery.
2) Dockery missed the first game.
3) It is therefore a valid point to say the Giants should do better against Welker because Dockery will be playing.

This does not mean Welker will be shut down... it's just an argument to show why the Giants MIGHT have more success this time around.

Now do you get it ?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. There is a reason why Dockery is fifth on the Giants depth chart at cornerback .... it's called a lack of talent. If you had not noticed, Dockery wasn't even selected in the 2006 NFL Draft.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Facts! We don't need no stinkin Facts.

But, but, what about all the matchups that the OP said favored the Giants? Now, these "facts" things are just confusing me...

:bricks:

 

[leek21]

No, we didn't expect you to think we would agree with you. What we do expect is some actual facts to back up your "feelings'. You should just empty your 401k and bet it on your Gmen based on your "feelings".

Man you guys really love stats... if stats is what you want stats is what you will get. But remember you asked for it.

My stat:
Jacobs had over 110 offensive yards and a TD against your defense last game and he did it WITHOUT Bradshaw.

Your typical response:
NE played a vanilla defense and Bradshaw is nothing special.

My claim and stat to back it up:

The combination of Jacobs and Bradshaw together is FAR better than Jacobs alone.

Bradshaw is a rookie and only started getting carries near the end of the season. In the last 5 games he missed 1 due to injury but in the other 4 he had carries:

Bills game:
Bradshaw 17 carries, 151 yards, 1 TD
Jacobs 24 carries, 145 yards, 2 TD

=> That is 41 carries. Wear any defense down.

NE game
Bradshaw was injured.

Bucs game
Bradshaw 17 for 66
Jacobs 13 for 34

=> That is 30 carries for 100 yards.. not the greatest average but all those carries break a defense and open up the passing game.

Dallas game
Bradshaw 6 for 34
Jacobs 14 for 54, 1 TD

=> Dallas has a great run defense, they didn't give up a 100 yard rusher until the final game of the season. Yet the combination of Jacobs/Bradshaw had an adequate day running the ball.

Green Bay
Bradshaw 16 for 63, 1 TD
Jacobs 21 for 67, 1 TD

=> That is 37 carries... it wears down the defense and opens up the passing game.

Do you want more stats ?

 

[ATippett56]

Do you want more stats ?

Here is the only stat that matters:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29435&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2007&week=REG17

 

[Watson's IQ]

Man you guys really love stats... if stats is what you want stats is what you will get. But remember you asked for it.

My stat:
Jacobs had over 110 offensive yards and a TD against your defense last game and he did it WITHOUT Bradshaw.

Your typical response:
NE played a vanilla defense and Bradshaw is nothing special.

My claim and stat to back it up:

The combination of Jacobs and Bradshaw together is FAR better than Jacobs alone.

Bradshaw is a rookie and only started getting carries near the end of the season. In the last 5 games he missed 1 due to injury but in the other 4 he had carries:

Bills game:
Bradshaw 17 carries, 151 yards, 1 TD
Jacobs 24 carries, 145 yards, 2 TD

=> That is 41 carries. Wear any defense down.

NE game
Bradshaw was injured.

Bucs game
Bradshaw 17 for 66
Jacobs 13 for 34

=> That is 30 carries for 100 yards.. not the greatest average but all those carries break a defense and open up the passing game.

Dallas game
Bradshaw 6 for 34
Jacobs 14 for 54, 1 TD

=> Dallas has a great run defense, they didn't give up a 100 yard rusher until the final game of the season. Yet the combination of Jacobs/Bradshaw had an adequate day running the ball.

Green Bay
Bradshaw 16 for 63, 1 TD
Jacobs 21 for 67, 1 TD

=> That is 37 carries... it wears down the defense and opens up the passing game.

Do you want more stats ?

Wow. With the exception of the Bills game, those numbers are way more mediocre than I expected them to be. Thanks to you, I'm actually a little less worried than I was before about the Giants rushing attack. You've finally made a positive contribution.

In all seriousness, you're giving us the number of carries as if just running it down the Patriots throat by sheer volume of carries (regardless of ypc) is going to get it done.