Giant Advantages ?

[Satchboogie3]

Ok leek, get this into your head.

The Giants LOST in to the Patriots in week 17, even though they played their best game of the season BY FAR. Not only that, but the Patriots didn't have 2 of their starting OL (Kaczur, Neal), and Kyle Brady, our best blocking tight-end, didn't play. On top of that, our defense didn't play all that well and admitted it, Bruschi said the Giants came into the game with far more energy.

Eli had a career day. That was one of his best game of his career. Now that BB saw how he played that game and has tons of film and time to prepare, do you honestly think Eli will have a good game?

And don't forget that the Patriots were just trying to out-execute the Giants. We played a very, very, very vanilla game. Even the commentators were mentioning it. This time we meet, you can be sure BB will throw absolutely everything at the Giants.

 

[leek21]

Well, I'm not advocating such a position, but that's essentially what it boils down to. If Tom Brady has a great day, well yawn, we've seen that before. If Eli throws for 250 yards and two TDs and 1 INT, it's atta-boys all the way to Bennigan's with the Manning family.

I guess it's only fair that the expectations are different, after all Brady was a number one overall pick and Eli fell all the way to the 6th round....

Cry to someone who cares... if Brady wants to be considered among the best then when he falters he will be held accountable...

Eli on the other hand still needs to prove he belongs among the best, if he puts up Brady like numbers he will be rewarded for it.

That's just the way it is.

 

[Ring 6]

I have provided evidence for both of the above, here it is again:

1) Moss was fairly well contained before Madison got injured. Moss had
5 receptions for 35 yards and a TD. After Madison went down Moss had that deep bomb for 65 yards. Madison will be back, that is a good thing for the Giants.

2) Dockery who missed the first game is a small quick corner, unlike Ross and Webster who are both 6 feet. Dockery is 5'8". He will match up against Welker better. Problem still is LBers on Welker which is an obvious mismatch favouring you guys.

Please give up the injured excuse. Madison was covering Moss on his long, decisive TD. You talk like Sam Madison is a good corner.

If you are pinning your hopes on a 5'8" corner that is on the bottom of the depth chart of a 10-6 team, you'll soon understand why you are losing to the best team ever.

 

[Ring 6]

You did not shut down Jacobs here are his stats:

15 carries, 67 yards, long of 16 (trucked Harrison).
5 receptions, 44 yards and 1 TD

Remember the Giants had the ball for less than 24 minutes, thanks to your OFFENSE!! NOT your DEFENSE!!
In that short time Jacobs racked up over 110 offensive yards, and a TD.

In the SB the Giants will also have Bradshaw playing.
As I said before, you better hope your offense controls the clock and scores often to force the Giants to pass.

The Giants running game is very strong.

Jacobs had 2 decent runs, and aside from those was under 3 yards a carry.
You can have whatever average you want, but if its under 3 but for 2 runs, you arent beating the Patriots.

 

[spacecrime]

Cry to someone who cares... if Brady wants to be considered among the best then when he falters he will be held accountable...

Eli on the other hand still needs to prove he belongs among the best, if he puts up Brady like numbers he will be rewarded for it.

That's just the way it is.

I blame posts like this on the federal government for cutting funding for education.

 

[oldskool138]

I blame posts like this on the federal government for cutting funding for education.

Best. Post. Ever!

 

[psychoPat]

....
No. You need to give the Giants full credit if they win.

If the Giants win
i'll give them full credit.

 

[elandadem]

I blame posts like this on the federal government for cutting funding for education.

I thought the No Troll Left Behind Act was supposed to remedy this problem. I think it's readily apparent that parity has not been achieved amongst the NFL teams' fanbases - qua intelligence.

 

[Watson's IQ]

The point that went over your head is the Giants will be in a better position to contain Welker than they were last time.

I'm not saying he will be shut down, just a point that favours the Giants compared to last game.

You are out of your mind ridiculous at this point. Absolutely nothing you've said would fly over the head of the world's shortest man. What we're disagreeing about clearly is the talent level of Kevin Dockery, a JAG defender if ever there was one, to limit Wes Welker, who was indisputably the best slot receiver in the game this season.

You've gone from making cogent points to insane ramblings and accusations, I suggest you quit while you're "ahead"

 

[Watson's IQ]

Cry to someone who cares... if Brady wants to be considered among the best then when he falters he will be held accountable...

Eli on the other hand still needs to prove he belongs among the best, if he puts up Brady like numbers he will be rewarded for it.

That's just the way it is.

You're making it too easy now, you realize that? I think we can all agree that Brady's "faltering" is a career day for Eli Manning, and I don't need to go find you the stats, it's in the public domain.

If you don't want to hear irrational defenses of how well the Giants match up with the Patriots, go do it on a Giants board. We deal in reality over here, and you haven't been bringing much of it, sorry.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Hmm. 18-0 vs 13-6.

The Pats had a few close games, but didn't lose.
The Giants lost 6 games and got destroyed in 4 of those games.

The Giants lost to the Cowboys twice during the regular season.
We beat the Cowboys by 21 points when they were at their peak.

The Giants lost to the Redskins by 12.
The Patriots beat the Redskins by 45 points. Let me put that in bold, by 45 points

How about we compare the teams that both the Patriots and Giants have played:
Giants vs Cowboys, 1-2, out-scored by DAL 93 - 76 in the series.
Patriots vs Cowboys, 1-0, beat them 48-27.

Giants vs Redskins, 1-1, out-scored by WAS 39 - 34.
Patriots vs Redskins, 1-0, beat them 52-7.

Giants vs Eagles, 2-0, out-scored PHI 32 - 19.
Patriots vs Eagles, 1-0, beat them 31-28.

Giants vs Jets, 1-0, beat them 35-24.
Patriots vs Jets, 2-0, out-scored NY 58 - 24

Giants vs Dolphins, 1-0, beat them 13-10.
Patriots vs Dolphins, 2-0, out-scored MIA 77 - 34 (remember, we could have scored a lot more. 41-7 lead at halftime in the first game and 28-0 lead at halftime in the second game, the offense just ran the clock in the second halves)

Giants vs Bills, 1-0, Beat them 38-21
Patriots vs bills, 2-0, out-scored BUF 94 - 17.

Giants vs Patriots, Pats won 38-35.

Is there really anything more to say? You lost 6 games, we lost 0 games. You had a +22 point differential, we had a +315 point differential. Just in case you aren't too good at math, we outscored our opponents by 293 MORE points than the Giants. In fact, the Giants scored just 58 more points than the Patriots point differential.

The Giants are -10 in turnovers (26th in the league), while turning the ball over 34 times. The Patriots are +16 in turnovers (3rd), while turning the ball over just 15 times, good for 3rd lowest total of ALL TIME.

EVERYTHING is stacked against the Giants.

Reality:
The Giants are the WORST statistical Superbowl team of all time
The Patriots are the BEST statistical Superbowl team, by far, of all time.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Long quote.. Bunch of "stats" and "facts", hardly evidence of any Patriots superiority. Nope..

He doesn't want to hear this, don't we all understand that by now? What you've brought are facts, all he's interested in is the immortal Kevin Dockery covering Welker like white on rice. Sorry if I'm exaggerating your point leek, but it's kind of hard to keep straight at this point.

If the above (and thanks for compiling it all in one place for him to see) doesn't convince you Leek, I don't know what will.

 

[jscout]

He doesn't want to hear this, don't we all understand that by now? What you've brought are facts, all he's interested in is the immortal Kevin Dockery covering Welker like white on rice. Sorry if I'm exaggerating your point leek, but it's kind of hard to keep straight at this point.

If the above (and thanks for compiling it all in one place for him to see) doesn't convince you Leek, I don't know what will.

Yes, the same Dockery who just figured out from watching film that you had to hit the Pats' WRs until they say "uncle." He figured out that the Pats' WRs are the only WRs to ever play the game and hate getting hit. Dude is a genius!

 

[leek21]

Hmm. 18-0 vs 13-6.

Is there really anything more to say? You lost 6 games, we lost 0 games. You had a +22 point differential, we had a +315 point differential. Just in case you aren't too good at math, we outscored our opponents by 293 MORE points than the Giants. In fact, the Giants scored just 58 more points than the Patriots point differential.

Nice stats... but since when did I argue the Giants had a better season ?
I fully realize the Pats had the better season... statistically and by any other measure.

But I can't help to notice what you left off your list... the Eagles... we both played them.

Even if the Giants win, the Patriots will still hold just about every statistical advantage over the Giants.

The games are played for a reason. I am merely pointing out some advantages the Giants have such as:

1) Burress over Hobbs
2) Giants rushing offense vs. NE rush defense
3) Bradshaw stepping up as a threat (missed first game)
4) Steve Smith stepping up as the 3rd receiver.
5) Giants KO team over the Pats KO team.
6) Strahan, Osi, Tuck as excellent pass rushers
7) Giants solid rush defense

If the Giants can run the ball (very possible) & put pressure on Brady from the front 4 alone then this will be a close game.

It's possible. Giants 38, Pats 34

 

[elandadem]

Yes, the same Dockery who just figured out from watching film that you had to hit the Pats' WRs until they say "uncle." He figured out that the Pats' WRs are the only WRs to ever play the game and hate getting hit. Dude is a genius!

Fortunately for Asante, he's not a Free Agent after the season.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDB.html

If he were, Asante might not get his payday. How could he compete against a player whose Wikipedia entry describes his career as having "No notable achievements"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Dockery

 

[leek21]

You are out of your mind ridiculous at this point. Absolutely nothing you've said would fly over the head of the world's shortest man. What we're disagreeing about clearly is the talent level of Kevin Dockery, a JAG defender if ever there was one, to limit Wes Welker, who was indisputably the best slot receiver in the game this season.

You've gone from making cogent points to insane ramblings and accusations, I suggest you quit while you're "ahead"

Again the point went over you head.

Let me break it down for you:

1) For a WR like Welker the best CB the Giants have is Dockery.
2) Dockery missed the first game.
3) It is therefore a valid point to say the Giants should do better against Welker because Dockery will be playing.

This does not mean Welker will be shut down... it's just an argument to show why the Giants MIGHT have more success this time around.

Now do you get it ?

 

[leek21]

Fortunately for Asante, he's not a Free Agent after the season.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDB.html

If he were, Asante might not get his payday. How could he compete against a player whose Wikipedia entry describes his career as having "No notable achievements"?

You guys are funny... do me a favour and go over every one of my posts and find one that compares Dockery to Asante. In fact find one that says anything other than: "Dockery matches up better against Welker compared to other Giant CBs".

You guys crack me up with your "reading between the lines"..it's like talking to emotional women. No offense intended.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Again the point went over you head.

Let me break it down for you:

1) For a WR like Welker the best CB the Giants have is Dockery.
2) Dockery missed the first game.
3) It is therefore a valid point to say the Giants should do better against Welker because Dockery will be playing.

This does not mean Welker will be shut down... it's just an argument to show why the Giants MIGHT have more success this time around.

Now do you get it ?

I got it the first time, you were just wrong. I get it again this time, and I still think you're wrong. You think Kevin Dockery is a good player. I don't. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You've imagined for yourself a list of things you think benefit the Giants. It's what you want to happen, in a perfect world, not what is a reasonable expectation of what is to come.

I've spent the better part of the last week defending the fact that the Giants have a chance at all, but the strategy you're advocating is not the path to success. You think the Giants are favored in these matchups you listed above, pretty much everyone here disagrees, and we have the facts on our side. I don't know what else you expected coming here with it, but it is what it is.

 

[elandadem]

1) Burress over Hobbs - Maybe
2) Giants rushing offense vs. NE rush defense - You're dreaming. Jacksonville was going to run all over us as well.
3) Bradshaw stepping up as a threat (missed first game) Yeah, those old LBs couldn't handle the Cowboys one-two punch either. See also Jacksonville comment above.
4) Steve Smith stepping up as the 3rd receiver. Wrong Steve Smith!
5) Giants KO team over the Pats KO team. I think we'll take our chances on Special Teams, they have certainly been above average.
6) Strahan, Osi, Tuck as excellent pass rushers Patriots OL. Who has more time than Brady?
7) Giants solid rush defense Patriots' passing attack.

If the Giants can run the ball (very possible) & put pressure on Brady from the front 4 alone then this will be a close game.

It's possible. Giants 38, Pats 34 Yes, but then on the Back Nine, the Patriots shoot a slew of birdies and eagles and come in 6 under par!

And on the golf course, is the only place the Giants would have a chance.

 

[JoePats]

1) Burress over Hobbs
2) Giants rushing offense vs. NE rush defense
5) Giants KO team over the Pats KO team.
6) Strahan, Osi, Tuck as excellent pass rushers
7) Giants solid rush defense

You already had these advantages in the first meeting and lost at home when you guys played your best game.