Giant Advantages ?

[leek21]

OUR ONLY HOPE? OUR ONLY HOPE? Dude, can I buy some pot from you? I was glad to see you when you first posted because it's refreshing to see someone actually want to talk football as opposed to just be a troll. But you've gone beyond the pale now, and you're showing your true colors.

You've just described the 18-0 Patriots as having an "only hope" of beating the Giants, statistically the worst Super Bowl team of all time (Fact, not opinion).

A close hard fought game favors the Giants in no conceivable way. Who do you want holding the ball in a four point game with a Super Bowl win on the line? Tom Brady or Eli Manning? Look yourself in the mirror before answering.

You misundertood what I said. I didn't say it was "your only hope to win".
I said it was your only hope to shutting down the Giants rushing attack.

If the Pat don't pull away I see the Giants running over your defense just like the Ravens did.

As for a close game favouring the Pats... just think about the pressure on the Pats.. now I know Brady is good under pressure.. arguablly the best but the pressure will be on the entire team... a perfect season.. best team of all time... etc.. etc..

That's a lot of weight... compared to the heavily underdog Giants who have no business even being in the game.

If Brady the Pats were ever going to choke this would be a perfect time (at least for me).... look what happened to Farve in the NFC championship game... or Romo when he played the Giants.

 

[Amnorix]

First, I would like to give leek21 kudos for starting at least a reasonably intelligent thread regarding the matchups etc. in this game. As others have said, he's not just posting stupid homerish crap about how his team rules and our sucks, etc. He's trying to be analytical.

To leek21: the game will decide all. IMHO the Patriots will handle the Giants fairly easily in the Super Bowl. The Giants offense is not even close to being as good as the Patriots, even during Eli Manning's sudden discovery of himself, and I think our defenses are probably fairly comparable.


I'll call it 34-20 Patriots.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

Eli is the Giants' QB

Advantage: Patriots.


lol. seriously I don't see the Giants getting much pressure on Brady. It's so much easier to rush Brady on the 34 defense because the Pats don't know where the blitze is coming from, while the 43 the OL will know exactly where the rush is and if they blitze then SOMEONE Is going to be open and Brady will find them. The Pats have a HUGE advantage in a lot of places but the Giants have to come out and play great defense and create turnovers. Then they have to convert those turnovers into points. We couldn't do that because in order to hang in with the Pats you need ALL of the pieces of the puzzle to be clicking on all cylinders.

Patriots 32- Giants 21

 

[leek21]

so your basing the fact that jacobs ran the ball a whopping 15 times that the giants will own the running game. Can I buy some pot from you?

I'm not basing it on Jacobs alone. Bradshaw missed the first game.
The Giants running attack is at least twice as good when you combine the Power of Jacobs and the speed and quickness of Bradshaw.

It's hard to stop.

 

[Watson's IQ]

You misundertood what I said. I didn't say it was "your only hope to win".
I said it was your only hope to shutting down the Giants rushing attack.

If the Pat don't pull away I see the Giants running over your defense just like the Ravens did.

As for a close game favouring the Pats... just think about the pressure on the Pats.. now I know Brady is good under pressure.. arguablly the best but the pressure will be on the entire team... a perfect season.. best team of all time... etc.. etc..

That's a lot of weight... compared to the heavily underdog Giants who have no business even being in the game.

If Brady the Pats were ever going to choke this would be a perfect time (at least for me).... look what happened to Farve in the NFC championship game... or Romo when he played the Giants.

Brady is not Romo, and he's not Favre. You're talking about two gunslinging QBs whose style of play makes them especially vulnerable to putting up a stinker like that. Brady could not be any more different than those two in terms of poise or style, trust me.

If you are pinning your hopes on the Patriots choking, you're going to be mighty disappointed, I'm sorry.

As for the running game, Jacobs could not scare me less, he's exactly the type of runner the Pats should be able to handle. Bradshaw does scare me a lot more, because it's little speedy scatbacks like him which give the Patriots nightmares.

 

[danny88]

I'm not basing it on Jacobs alone. Bradshaw missed the first game.
The Giants running attack is at least twice as good when you combine the Power of Jacobs and the speed and quickness of Bradshaw.

It's hard to stop.

Have fun with Maroney and Faulk this time when Kyle Brady is back to block , and the entire right side of the offensive line is back in.

You are making it seem like the pats are not 18 - 0. Seriously the g men are the WORST superbowl team ever. Look at the stats.

 

[Amnorix]

You misundertood what I said. I didn't say it was "your only hope to win".
I said it was your only hope to shutting down the Giants rushing attack.

If the Pat don't pull away I see the Giants running over your defense just like the Ravens did.

You can keep going back to our WORST game of the year, one that we won, on the road, if you want, but let me point out that YOUR worst games of the year you got annihilated 41-17 by the freaking Vikings and squeaked out a victory over the hapless Dolphins 13-10.

How relevant are those games to what the Patriots are going to do to your squad? The answer is the same as how relevant the Ravens game is to this one -- not very.

As for a close game favouring the Pats... just think about the pressure on the Pats.. now I know Brady is good under pressure.. arguablly the best but the pressure will be on the entire team... a perfect season.. best team of all time... etc.. etc..

FWIW, the Patriots have never folded under pressure under BB/Brady. Besides, I think usually the "team that wants it more" wins in football, and the Giants are likely suffering from "happy to be there" 'ism.

That's a lot of weight... compared to the heavily underdog Giants who have no business even being in the game.

If Brady the Pats were ever going to choke this would be a perfect time (at least for me).... look what happened to Farve in the NFC championship game... or Romo when he played the Giants.

Favre and Romo have choked before, frankly. Brady had his multi-pick nightmare game against Denver, but the Broncos always play us tough, they were the favored team, the Pats were decimated by injuries that year, and other than that, he's never remotely folded under pressure or choked.

 

[BelichickFan]

You misundertood what I said. I didn't say it was "your only hope to win". I said it was your only hope to shutting down the Giants rushing attack.

Well the Jacksonville running game is better than the Giants' and they averaged 3.6 YPC two weeks ago.

 

[Watson's IQ]

I'm not basing it on Jacobs alone. Bradshaw missed the first game.
The Giants running attack is at least twice as good when you combine the Power of Jacobs and the speed and quickness of Bradshaw.

It's hard to stop.

It's not as hard to stop as you think. Oh, and "the Giants running attack is at least twice as good when you combine the Power of Jacobs and the speed and quickness of Bradshaw" is one of the sillier things I've read in a while. Are you talking about a football team or selling me a car?

No one disputes that the Giants have a good rushing game, they were top 4 in both ypg and ypc. However, BB is going to focus on taking away the running game, and if he commits enough to it, he will be able to severely limited. The "shutting down the running game" is going to come from forcing Eli to be the one that beats them. I'm less than confident of that happening.

 

[The 12th Man]

An extra week to prepare....Advantage NE (just look at BB's record after bye weeks.)

I do agree to some extent that the Giants secondary has been playing better in the postseason, but they still got burned by the Packers a few times. Bradshaw and Jacobs are a good RB duo, but so were Taylor and Drew. Plus, the Pats have a very good record when they face a team the second time during the season. Put all that together and you got yourself an answer leek21.

 

[elandadem]

How about we examine this from a different perspective?

How are the Giants going to shut down the Patriots' offense?

There are so many different ways they can amass points. Double Moss and you'll leave single coverage on Stallworth, Gaffney or Welker - Brady will kill you seven yards at a time.

Put eight in the box and Brady will take it ballistic (not vertical - that ball will hit space) to Moss or Stallworth.

Blitz and Brady will hit Faulk out of the backfield.

Play zone and Maroney (remember him?) will compile a century.

Put Vrabel in as a TE and you'd better double him or you'll be the next team to surrender a touchdown to him in a Super Bowl.

Simply put there are too many ways the Pats can put points on the board.

Ask yourself, if it comes down to an offensive shootout who would you bet the rent money on?

 

[leek21]

Sooooooo.......

Jacobs' 4.5 ypc is proof of potential excellence despite him being held to 7 rushing yards in the first half, but Jax being held to 3.5 ypc is not evidence that NE stopped their running game?

You did not shut down Jacobs here are his stats:

15 carries, 67 yards, long of 16 (trucked Harrison).
5 receptions, 44 yards and 1 TD

Remember the Giants had the ball for less than 24 minutes, thanks to your OFFENSE!! NOT your DEFENSE!!
In that short time Jacobs racked up over 110 offensive yards, and a TD.

In the SB the Giants will also have Bradshaw playing.
As I said before, you better hope your offense controls the clock and scores often to force the Giants to pass.

The Giants running game is very strong.

 

[Watson's IQ]

How about we examine this from a different perspective?

How are the Giants going to shut down the Patriots' offense?

There are so many different ways they can amass points. Double Moss and you'll leave single coverage on Stallworth, Gaffney or Welker - Brady will kill you seven yards at a time.

Put eight in the box and Brady will take it ballistic (not vertical - that ball will hit space) to Moss or Stallworth.

Blitz and Brady will hit Faulk out of the backfield.

Play zone and Maroney (remember him?) will compile a century.

Put Vrabel in as a TE and you'd better double him or you'll be the next team to surrender a touchdown to him in a Super Bowl.

Simply put there are too many ways the Pats can put points on the board.

Ask yourself, if it comes down to an offensive shootout who would you bet the rent money on?

The OP believes that the Giants secondary is better than it is, which is why he can ignore this factor in dissecting the matchup.

Teams that can hang with the Pats have MULTIPLE talented corners and safeties, which is why San Diego gave them such a tough game and the Jags had a very hard time keeping the offense in check.

The Giants secondary is not even on the same planet as the Chargers. So I agree with you that unless someone comes up with a reasonable way the Giants slow down the passing attack (hint: there probably isn't one), than I'll remain as thoroughly unconvinced that anything in the game favors the Giants.

 

[Theplayer]

You did not shut down Jacobs here are his stats:

15 carries, 67 yards, long of 16 (trucked Harrison).
5 receptions, 44 yards and 1 TD

Remember the Giants had the ball for less than 24 minutes, thanks to your OFFENSE!! NOT your DEFENSE!!
In that short time Jacobs racked up over 110 offensive yards, and a TD.

In the SB the Giants will also have Bradshaw playing.
As I said before, you better hope your offense controls the clock and scores often to force the Giants to pass.

The Giants running game is very strong.

The Giants running game is as strong as the Patriots want it to be.

Pats offense wins this game..last game against the overrated Giants defense..9 possessions, 7 scoring drives(6 over 50 yards)..38 points...and that is also settling for 3 FGs.

 

[Watson's IQ]

You did not shut down Jacobs here are his stats:

15 carries, 67 yards, long of 16 (trucked Harrison).
5 receptions, 44 yards and 1 TD

Remember the Giants had the ball for less than 24 minutes, thanks to your OFFENSE!! NOT your DEFENSE!!
In that short time Jacobs racked up over 110 offensive yards, and a TD.

In the SB the Giants will also have Bradshaw playing.
As I said before, you better hope your offense controls the clock and scores often to force the Giants to pass.

The Giants running game is very strong.

Yes, they have a strong running game, but..

Even if the Giants are able to run the ball successfully on the Patriots, which is certainly not outside of the realm of possibility, you've yet to convince anyone that the Giants will be able to slow down the Patriots offense. That should be your first order of business. If you want to turn any heads with your argument, that's where it's going to need to begin and end.

 

[Oswlek]

You did not shut down Jacobs here are his stats:

15 carries, 67 yards, long of 16 (trucked Harrison).
5 receptions, 44 yards and 1 TD

Remember the Giants had the ball for less than 24 minutes, thanks to your OFFENSE!! NOT your DEFENSE!!
In that short time Jacobs racked up over 110 offensive yards, and a TD.

In the SB the Giants will also have Bradshaw playing.
As I said before, you better hope your offense controls the clock and scores often to force the Giants to pass.

The Giants running game is very strong.

I will put this in large print so you finally address it.

The Giants were held to 7 yards on 7 carries in the first half.

What part of 7 yards and 1 ypc do you not get? How is that "not stopping" it?

 

[leek21]

How about we examine this from a different perspective?
How are the Giants going to shut down the Patriots' offense?
There are so many different ways they can amass points. Double Moss and you'll leave single coverage on Stallworth, Gaffney or Welker - Brady will kill you seven yards at a time.
Put eight in the box and Brady will take it ballistic (not vertical - that ball will hit space) to Moss or Stallworth.
Blitz and Brady will hit Faulk out of the backfield.
Play zone and Maroney (remember him?) will compile a century.
Put Vrabel in as a TE and you'd better double him or you'll be the next team to surrender a touchdown to him in a Super Bowl.
Simply put there are too many ways the Pats can put points on the board.
Ask yourself, if it comes down to an offensive shootout who would you bet the rent money on?

The Giants aren't going to shut down the Pats offense. I don't see it happening.

The key is to keep that offense off the field for long periods of time while scoring points. That can be done with a good running game and short passing attack.

But when the Pats are on offense this is what will be different from the first game:

1) Madison will be covering Moss ALL game (barring injury). Remember that 65 yard TD was after Madison left the game injured.
Take that off and Moss had 5 receptions, 35 yards and a TD.

I would be very happy if he is that well contained again.

2) Welker hadd 11 for 122... but Dockery was out for the game. Having Dockery back should help in this area.

3) Faulk and 8 for 64... not much the Giants can do differently against him.

4) Watson 4 for 38 and Stallworth 3 for 32. Not much Giants can do about that.

5) Maroney was well contained in the first game... 19 for 47 and 2 TDs.
Do the same thing again (except for the TDs).

 

[Watson's IQ]

I will put this in large print so you finally address it.

The Giants were held to 7 yards on 7 carries in the first half.

What part of 7 yards and 1 ypc do you not get? How is that "not stopping" it?

Don't bother. It seems he's only planning to address issues we raise if he can spin them to make his own point. I've been trying to have an intelligent discussion with him, but so far it's not taking.

It's a shame, because I'd love to discuss the matchups rationally with a Giants fan, but I don't want to hear about their "elite" secondary or any of that, really. It's not worth the time.

 

[Watson's IQ]

2) Welker hadd 11 for 122... but Dockery was out for the game. Having Dockery back should help in this area.

Welker had 11 for 122.. but Santa Claus was out for that game. Having Santa Claus back should help in this area.

My point is, you realize that people DO cover Welker every game, right? He's not just out there playing against "hole in defense" all the time and piling up catches. Convince me that Dockery is any more capable of covering Welker than whoever was on him last time, or don't bother to make assertions like that.

It seems like your analysis of the Giants cornerbacks isn't going any deeper than where they rank on the depth chart, which hardly seems beneficial to the discussion. Back up what you're saying.

 

[leek21]

I will put this in large print so you finally address it.

The Giants were held to 7 yards on 7 carries in the first half.

What part of 7 yards and 1 ypc do you not get? How is that "not stopping" it?

Allow me to explain in a more gentle, soothing tone. Belichick was stacking the line to stop the run... and it wasn't working in the Pats favour because the Giants were scoring points.

Giants were very much in the game.. in fact they were winning.

If Belichick wants to focus that much on the run.... then he will again give up points in the air.

I suspect he learned his lesson from the first game... so the Giants WILL be able to run on the Pats JUST as they DID when Belichick went back to a more regular defense.

Do you think the Pats can afford to stack the line in the SB ? Remember Burress burned you deep when you did this in the first game, and Manning exposed your secondary.