ESPN: Jets in better Super Bowl shape than Pats

[Deus Irae]

Actually you are wrong again on a couple of points. The Pats moved Wilfork to RDE for one game for matchup purposes. The majority of the Phins runs are behind Long so they shifted their best player out there. I don't really see that as a major weakness. So I'm guessing it was you who wasn't watching and you can actually franchise a player and tender other free agents at a 1st round pick and 3rd round pick level. That's a pretty steep price, while its not franchise level 2 1st round picks, not too many teams are willing to spend a 1st and a 3rd on a pretty good 28 year old corner.

How often did the Patriots move Seymour to tackle so that Wilfork could put an end to the Patriots getting their ass kicked in the running game to his side?

As for the transition tag, which is what you're talking about, it doesn't prevent other teams from signing those players. That differs from the exclusive franchise tag. So, despite your comment, I wasn't "wrong again on a couple of things".

 

[Metaphors]

This is among the silliest things you've ever posted.

Your claimed:
No RG (Ohrnberger)
No WR3 (Tate)
No WR4 (Edelman)
No RILB (McKenzie)
Question Mark at CB2 (Butler)

That is the better part of the Pats draft last year. You tell me how I should relate your evaluation to what you think about the 2009 draft class.

No, they have lost players. The only way to hold onto the free agents at this point is to franchise tag them.

The Pats have expiring contracts. The Jets have silly contracts (Sheppard, Rhodes, Gholston, etc.) that they would be foolish to continue paying. Either way, both teams are going to lose players by not re-signing, offering tenders or picking up bonus payments.

As for how you take my evaluation, the Patriots at the end of week 15 were a different team than they were after Welker went down. They were a different team than they are today, with all the players now being UFAs. That's just reality.

That is the Pats reality. You just don't apply the same standard to the Jets. Welker is a question mark but Jenkins, Washington and even Sanchez should be just fine. Bodden is a huge Pats loss but Sheppard isn't for the Jets.

If you are going to pronounce the Jets in better position than the Pats, but only as things stand right at this very moment, then you can't lose. If the Jets do better than the Pats next year, you claim victory. If they don't, you just claim the teams are "different" than they were on Feb 18th. Just like the Pats were clearly better after week #15 but are clearly worse now...pending RFA tenders...and franchise tags...and FA signings...and the draft...and injuries...and Sanchez improving...and...

 

[Deus Irae]

Your claimed:
No RG (Ohrnberger)
No WR3 (Tate)
No WR4 (Edelman)
No RILB (McKenzie)
Question Mark at CB2 (Butler)

That is the better part of the Pats draft last year. You tell me how I should relate your evaluation to what you think about the 2009 draft class.

No, actually I have Edelman in as WR2, because he played enough to show his ability, making your point about him wrong. As for McKenzie, he's coming off of a rookie season completely lost due to an ACL injury. Claiming him as a starter at this point is insane. Ohrnberger played about 5 snaps all season. Butler started and was pulled from that position. You're trying to project non-starters into starter roles.

Did you miss the first line of that post of mine:

Perspective, looking at the Patriots' starters

?

 

[Deus Irae]

The Pats have expiring contracts. The Jets have silly contracts (Sheppard, Rhodes, Gholston, etc.) that they would be foolish to continue paying. Either way, both teams are going to lose players by not re-signing, offering tenders or picking up bonus payments.

Why would I remove players that are currently under contract? That makes no sense, particularly in this uncapped year.

That is the Pats reality. You just don't apply the same standard to the Jets. Welker is a question mark but Jenkins, Washington and even Sanchez should be just fine. Bodden is a huge Pats loss but Sheppard isn't for the Jets.

Perhaps you didn't know what Surgery Sanchez was having:

The quarterback had surgery on his left knee this morning at Morristown (N.J.) Memorial Hospital. Dr. Ken Montgomery, the Jets head team physician, and Dr. Elliott Hersman, team orthopedist, performed the procedure, which was expected to stabilize the area around Sanchez's left patella.

Sanchez dislocated that kneecap prior to his junior season at USC. He has worn a brace on the knee since then, but is expected to be able to play without one now.

Jets' Sanchez surgery successful - NYPOST.com

I never commented on Washington or Jenkins. Even without Washington, for example, the Jets running back situation is much better than the Patriots running back situation, at present. Sanchez, by the way, is expected back for training camp.

If you are going to pronounce the Jets in better position than the Pats, but only as things stand right at this very moment, then you can't lose. If the Jets do better than the Pats next year, you claim victory. If they don't, you just claim the teams are "different" than they were on Feb 18th. Just like the Pats were clearly better after week #15 but are clearly worse now...pending RFA tenders...and franchise tags...and FA signings...and the draft...and injuries...and Sanchez improving...and...

So you'll just continue to ignore "That will likely change during the offseason" in the interest of defending a terrible position in a debate that will be irrelevant before March is even over? Well, given that you're repeatedly making that "week #15" comment which completely ignores Welker going down for the count and ignores the UFAs, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[condon84]

As it stands, the Jets are a better team. How can we argue this? They went to the AFC Championship game and we got embarrassed at home against the Ravens.

They appear to have a better foundation with their OL and DL. Our skill players on offense are more talented and will be until Brady retires but without a good OL, who cares? Not to say we have a crappy OL, but the Jets identity of running the ball vs our passing identity is more consistent on a game to game basis.

And on defense, they seem to have hit on players that fit their system. Even without Jenkins, arguably the most important player on their defense, they still were the best defense in the NFL.

We have some good young players on defense as well, but we have to acknowledge that they're ahead of us in that department right now.

Their success hinges on Sanchez's development. They could become the Ravens when they had Boeller: a really good team torpedoed by a horrible QB.

 

[Miguel]

The question asked was:
"Who from the AFC East will return to the Super Bowl first?"

The free agency restrictions on the Jets only apply to the Jets in 2010.

 

[Coach42]

How often did the Patriots move Seymour to tackle so that Wilfork could put an end to the Patriots getting their ass kicked in the running game to his side?

As for the transition tag, which is what you're talking about, it doesn't prevent other teams from signing those players. That differs from the exclusive franchise tag. So, despite your comment, I wasn't "wrong again on a couple of things".

Actually anyone can sign another teams franchise player it just costs two 1st rounders just like the transition tag would come with a price if they used it on Bodden.

I don't understand how moving Wilfork over to take advantage of a matchup is a weakness? It turned out to be a good move and they shut the Dolphins run game down. If the Jets move Revis to the other side of the field for matchup purposes does that immediately mean the other CB is terrible? Maybe that is a bad example because in the Jets case it is actually true. Whatever, my point is that was ONE game and Mike Wright is adequate, I wouldn't call RDE a burning "need". I will grant you that an upgrade would be nice but really its not an extreme need.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

Wow, I guess it's all over guys and dolls, cuz if ESPN says it it's true. Seriously one time I printed out something ESPN said and literally took it to the bank, put it in a GIC. I cashed it in last June and used the proceeds to buy a Summer home.

 

[vyrago]

If the Colts hadn't decided to take their pre-playoff nap during the Jets game, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

No, the Jets don't have the edge in "a lot of aspects" unless you just willy nilly say so and ignore things like Special Teams. I'll take Gostkowski over their kicker and our punt return group over theirs..

Again I keep forgeting special teams my bad, where we have the edge in that.. But again this is feb,lets see how it plays out this offseason..

 

[Rob0729]

As it stands, the Jets are a better team. How can we argue this? They went to the AFC Championship game and we got embarrassed at home against the Ravens.

They appear to have a better foundation with their OL and DL. Our skill players on offense are more talented and will be until Brady retires but without a good OL, who cares? Not to say we have a crappy OL, but the Jets identity of running the ball vs our passing identity is more consistent on a game to game basis.

And on defense, they seem to have hit on players that fit their system. Even without Jenkins, arguably the most important player on their defense, they still were the best defense in the NFL.

We have some good young players on defense as well, but we have to acknowledge that they're ahead of us in that department right now.

Their success hinges on Sanchez's development. They could become the Ravens when they had Boeller: a really good team torpedoed by a horrible QB.

In reference to the Jets' o-line, they have two players who are anything of note that will be with them past next season and playing at a high level - Mangold and Ferguson. Both have contracts coming up soon, both will demand top dollar, and depending on the new CBA, they might not be able to afford one or both of them especially since key defensive players like Revis and Harris will need new contracts soon also.

The Jets were better than the Pats at the end of the season, but let's not forget the Jets backed into the playoffs and were lucky enough to catch fire in the first few games of the playoffs. There is no guarantees that they will substain that momentum come 2010.

Every year there is another team that is poised to overtake the Patriots in this division. Every year, that team from the previous year takes a step back. After the 2008 season, it was Miami who was set to be the top team in the division only to take a step back in 2009 and in five less games than the year before. I just don't buy the hype until someone in the division proves that they are ready to take that next step and stays that way.

 

[Miguel]

FWIW - In 2010 that the Patriots play a 1st place schedule (Colts and Chargers) and the Jets a 2nd place schedule (Texans and Broncos).

 

[patsfan-1982]

the pats had a average defense. and all the best players on D are FA's wilfork, best D line men FA. bodden. best corner FA banta-cain best pass rusher FA.


at this point right now the pats would have a hard time just fielding a team. forget the SB. the pats are rebuilding. but because they have tom brady, and play in a pretty week AFC east. they will be a playoff team with who every BB puts out there. and i will take brady. over sanchez, in a playoff game. any day.

 

[sieglo]

I'd be willing to bet that TFB will be a starter in this league longer than Sanchez. Wonder what Vegas odds have on that.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

7) Do they send Gholston packing this year? If they don't and there is a cap in the next CBA, he will be haunting their cap through 2012.

Even if they do send him packing this year, his contract might still haunt the Jets' salary cap if a cap comes back in 2011 (as someone else noted, there's no acceleration of prorations this year, so that money theoretically still hits the 2011 and 2012 caps).

 

[fair catch fryar]

Blah, blah, blah....so the Jets are the flavor of the month because their playoff berth was gift-wrapped for them. I think the Jets are a good team, mainly because of their defense, but let's see what happens to Sanchez in his 2nd year and if his running game can maintain their 2009 level. IMO, if the Jets running game doesn't produce then that spells trouble for Mr. Sanchez as he will definitely be exposed more and end up with "even more" turnovers.

I love that people are starting to overlook the Pats now and calling them "long in the tooth" because it'll mean they'll start under-estimating Brady and BB again. I think we all know how that goes.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

FWIW - In 2010 that the Patriots play a 1st place schedule (Colts and Chargers) and the Jets a 2nd place schedule (Texans and Broncos).

Not much of a handicap, and if they play the Chargers in September don't count as a first-place team.

 

[patsfan-1982]

FWIW - In 2010 that the Patriots play a 1st place schedule (Colts and Chargers) and the Jets a 2nd place schedule (Texans and Broncos).

thet maybe a good thing the texans. could be a realy good team next year. and the pats all most never beat the broncos.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Everyone in the NFL now has tape of both the jets and Dirty Sanchez, look at the drastic drop off in both Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco this year as opposed to their rookie seasons. The Jets have 3 draft picks (29, 61, 6th), and can not sign any Free Agents. They have to make a decision on thomas Jones in a few weeks (he has a 7 million dollar roster bonus coming up in March), Leon Washington is coming off an injury and is a restricted free agent, Faneca is 34, Woody 33, and they have no WRs and no depth. The Jets will take a serious step back this year.

 

[Rob0729]

the pats had a average defense. and all the best players on D are FA's wilfork, best D line men FA. bodden. best corner FA banta-cain best pass rusher FA.


at this point right now the pats would have a hard time just fielding a team. forget the SB. the pats are rebuilding. but because they have tom brady, and play in a pretty week AFC east. they will be a playoff team with who every BB puts out there. and i will take brady. over sanchez, in a playoff game. any day.

Except Wilfork will be franchised and the Pats have far more flexibility to make offseason moves and drastically improve. Come September there is a very high probability that the Pats the Pats will be significantly better while the Jets will be just about the same since they do not have the ability to make big moves in free agency and few draft picks.

If you think TBC will be the Pats' best pass rusher come September, I think you are crazy. Whether they get Peppers or someone else, they will upgrade that position.